Badly managed Melbourne bid has rugby on the skids

although what you say may have some merrit Republican, it is also very clear that you wish rugby in the ACT would inplode in so many ways. Did Stirling Mortlock run over your dog or George Gregan short change you on a coffee??? You keep rehashing that there is only 1 Australian rugby schoolboy rep this year etc etc. You believe rugby is finished in the ACT. We get it champ.

Republican I understand that there were less than a hundred people watching the grand-final of the local Canberra AFL premiership at Manuka Oval. I think you should be looking at your own code before declaring the demise of the Brumbies in the ACT (please note that they aren't the Brumby's - your education at Marist or St Edmund's mustn't have included learning English grammar).

So we are essentially in agreement? O'Neil and the ARU have killed (or done their best to kill) ACT Rugby?

Chris As already alluded to, the Brumby's were consistently well supported even when they were not winning. The dwindling support is not so simple and definately has been influenced by the politics of Australian Rugby and its treatment of the ACT, disenfranchising many punters along the way, many who I happen to know. The tribalism of Union in the ACT was second to none for the best part of the Brumby years and the envy of NSWRU in particular, who fueled much of the vitriol and skull duggery that created instability and consternation amongst the Brumby faithful over time. I doubt very much that Union in this region will ever claw its way back to those heady days and if anything, being so on the nose in Oz, it could well expire before too long.

So it has nothing to do with that fact the Brumbies won the comp 5 years ago? Next year when we win again (wait and see) the crowds will be back.

Pippinu I have no doubt they can . All I was alluding to is that the assumption the Storm would disappear into the horizon may be displaced. I have only been to one Storm home game at olympic park but I observed there was some genuine support. Small relative to AFL but something you could "work " on. I was a little surprised. I went and saw the melbourne Storm U/18 in the grand final at Western weekender at St marys in western Sydney . they lost to canterbury but did very well to be there. I saw cameron Smith / kronc and Johnson talking to the lads. I talked to them ( having been invited by a melbourne aquaintence). I spoke to 6 or so and they were born in melbourne although at least three were of NZ or islander heritage) I like to write about what i see and attend. You will probably note that i can get a little churlish with the AFL not through any intense dislike of the game but a respectful realisation of how very good they are on the ground. My rugby union comrades have no idea. i think that was what it was about the Storm the reality of my experience did not match comments made . The storm will not disappear in the medium future. I was impressed by Smith. An older simpler type of guy , family man down to earth in that QLD way. Reminded me of the geelong captain Harley is it ? Assumptions they will be a pushover are ill founded. that is all i mean.

If the South African Rugby Union is so keen on getting the Southern Kings, based in Port Elizabeth, in the Australian conference of the Super 15, perhaps it should first include the side in the Currie Cup. We hear repeatedly from our Saffa correspondents that the Currie Cup is the finest provincial competition in the world and that it shouldn't be tampered with by any expansion of the the Super 14 just to please Australia. So why doesn't SARU prove its commitment to 'black' rugby where it really counts - in South Africa.

Billo Never say never - there is a chance that a Vic rugby team could match the Storm's attendances within a short space of time.

The trouble is that there is too much talk of "knocking them (the Storm) over". That will not happen, even if it might have done at one point in history. The Storm will have almost a full season in the new stadium before the new Melbourne rugby club (assuming it gets the franchise) plays its first game, while the Victory will also have played a full season by then. Those two clubs will have consolidated their support by 2011, and the new club will face a difficult struggle. A few years ago the ARU could have stepped in and offered contracts to Greg Inglis and Billy Slater that they couldn't refuse, but that now seems unlikely in the current financial climate. Someone is going to have to dig deep to finance the new club, and we have yet to find out how it will be funded. It's a tough call, but it still has to be done for the sake of Australian rugby in the long term. Whether or not Melbourne "deserves" a team isn't really the point.

The fact that Melbourne Storm has made the grand final in the NRL/ the grand final in the U/20s Toyota Cup and in the national U/18 SG Ball competition ( with 11 local juniors) is to be fair no mean achievement for any sporting club. Rugby is not on the skids in Melbourne. However it has done itself needless collateral damage. I get accused of being disloyal but we have to understand the reality of where we are at. Victorian rugby at an adult participation level is still clearly superior to rugby league. The problem is at the young juniors level from no base whatsoever the melbourne Storm have started to build up a limited but real following at the junior level that is starting to match rugby in numbers eg mini mod and junior international rugby league. I saw this with my own eyes and the name of the development officer was greg brentnall. he was a straight shooter and backed it up with physical examples. i have no doubt that many of these young lads will revert to rugby once a melbourne Super 15 franchise is introduced but I am no longer in the group that says Melbourne Storm is a completely lost cause. victorian rugby is in the superior position but Melbourne storm has some begrudging local support. They are very well run. They seem to know there place but The AFL clubs have educated them well. they aim for a solid 20000 at their new home . ten years ago it would have been a cakewalk to knock them over now it will take good management mere assertions of tradition and superiority will not entirely wash News LTd subsidies or not.

Im with Pippinu. NZ needs a strong Australia. Its in both NZ and Aust intrest for a side in melb. I can go to my Carlton games, GO BLUES, then straight into town for the Rugby.. GO REBELS. I recon come the end of Sept 2011, I will be a single man again. Despite the fact that the process has been a joke, its good to see all getting together and coming up with a plan. Melb will be out of control when this thing gets off the ground. I cant wait. I just hope that all these people understand that its not about them. Its about us the fans. The ARU needs to remember that. If you get you fans on side, the footy will look after itself.

I'm pretty much over the whole Vic Super 14 bid soap opera. Another self inflicted black eye for rugby (and O'Neill). The bid was in the bag, but defeat may yet be snatched from the jaws of victory.

100% right. When the Brumbies were playing in Super 12 finals, there would regularly be stories in the media about them being relocated to Melbourne, all traced back to O'Neill. Why not support the successful team? O'Neill has unprecedented power in rugby administration and he has made mostly poor decisions since returning as the Messiah - Deans is O'Neill's coach, and has the lowest success rate of any Wallaby coach in decades.

Can't see NZ supporting SA. It makes no financial, logistical or performance sense to do so.

Chris Up from where? The av capacity about five years ago was 20c plus at Brumby home games. it has been dropping ever since and has naught to do with the teams performance and alot to do with the ARU's contempt for ACTRU as well as a decade and more of threats of relocation despite incredible support and success. That's all ancient history now and those punters lost to the game will never have their faith restored - the damage was done along time ago and it is still anticipated that Melbourne will get there way no matter what happens with this latest super expansion bidding process. The coalition i.e. the VRU, ARU and Brumby Rugby have always had this expedient option in waiting, mark my words.

I think in the last few days the AFL has held its annual draft camp in Canberra, for about 70 17 year old hopefuls from all over Australia. Most will be drafted by the end of the year. About half will end up making a name for themselves in years to come. Is anyone here going to tell me that the ARU would be incapable of organising a similar camp for 70 elite teenagers on an annual basis, from which half could eventually make their way to any one of the five super teams? Of course it's possible.

Surely it's in NZ's interest to have rugby in a strong position in Australia? I don't buy the talent pool argument. We hear it in the AFL, in the A-League, in rugby - but if the opportunities are there, and the pathways are there - the talent will gravitate to those opportunities. But if there are few openings to be a professional player (in any given sport) - then you can rest assured that no professional players will be produced. I'm reading on another thread how a team containing very few celebrated players has just won a grand final for the 2nd year running, presumably chock full of young players.

and yet the Brumbies crowd average was up almost 4,000 last year. If the ARU want's me to exchange my Brumby membership for a Raiders one then I am all too willing.

Aust don't deserve a 5th team ... there is certainly not the depth of players to fill it and the administration from the top through to State level is pathetic ... It will be interesting to see how SANZAR view this mess - if the NZ now decide to back the Kings after witnesing this mess - will the ARU fall into line to ensure the expansion they themselves pushed for ... or will they veto it – displaying they’ve only got their own interests at heart and not the competitions as a whole …

John, I occasionally write things that are not always thoroughly thought out or are from left field and I often get told that what I write is rubbish. I don't care and neither should you. I wonder if there are stooges from HQ who read articles and then parrot the party line?