On Saturday the Westfield W-League kicked off on ABC1 with a Grand Final replay between Brisbane Roar and Canberra United. The Roar and Tameka Butt were awesome, and so were the women commentating on the match in former Matildas’ captain Cheryl Salisbury and defender Amy Taylor.
Both ladies were entertaining and informative with a relaxed attitude. But their appointment did raise the question: do you need to play at the highest level to be a good commentator?
In recent times female commentators have found their way into the boys club gracing our television sets and radios. Whilst obviously well respected by their male counterparts for their knowledge and professionalism, the public, and let’s face males, have greeted this change with some hostility.
Most recently BBC commentator Jacqui Oatley and Australian commentator Kelli Underwood have been in the firing line coping some ill-informed and plain sexist comments.
Not surprising a few comments were directed their way by some disgruntled, presumably, males in YouTube comments to videos of their work.
On Jacqui – “Football is a chance for men to block out having to interact with women for just 90 minutes, having a female commentator is just wrong.
“What a joke. She should be in the kitchen preparing John Motson’s tea not commentating herself!”
On Kelli – “Westie ****** speaking through their nose don’t need to be in my lounge room. We don’t need an advertisement to the world that Australian women are trash. Shrieeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeek. God what an awful voice.”
A major criticism is also the fact that these women have never played at the highest level and, therefore, couldn’t possibly have any idea about the game.
Let’s examine this with through two quick examples: Martin Tyler (Sky Sports) and Simon Hill (Fox Sports).
Along with the aforementioned John Motson, Martin Tyler is the premier voice in English football and like many I grew up listening to Martin commentate every major football final. Voted the FA Premier League Commentator of the Decade, Tyler is a well-credentialed and respected journalist.
However, shock, horror, Tyler has never played any top-flight football. I have had the great pleasure of speaking with Martin on numerous occasions. Only speaking with Cesc Fabregas or Cristano Ronaldo could have left me as speechless, and he would be the first to tell you his playing career was never spectacular.
The Australian football equivalent of Tyler is Fox Sports’ Simon Hill. Despite being a Manchester City tragic (we forgive you Simon), Hill has managed to overcome that disadvantage to become the voice of Australian football. In recent times it is almost impossible to recall a major Australian football moment that Simon has not commentated.
Yet, despite probably dreaming about it, Simon Hill never pulled on the jumper and played on the hallowed turf of the City of Manchester Stadium. I have also had the pleasure of speaking with Hill and considering his two major deficiencies (Man City and the whole playing thing), he manages to carry on a surprisingly intelligent and knowledgeable conversation about football.
Just two examples from the world of football and don’t get me started with AFL. The sport is riddled with them: Bruce McAvaney, Tim Lane, Stephen Quartermaine, Anthony Hudson etc.
So considering the above, is the adage truly relevant? From the research I would say no. If that’s the case, why aren’t female commentators taken as seriously? Personally, I believe that the sporting public is so used to male voices that they are instantly resistant to a females tone, pitch etc. However, like all other things in life, the more exposure we get of these talented, experienced and worthy individuals, the more they will grow on us.
I mean, who ever thought the game of football would take off in this country!
Forgetmenot
Guest
When i first heard Kelli Underwood commentating the football i was confused at first. But i dont really mind her as a commentator. A few of the people watching with me (chicks included) said that they didnt like a female commentator on mens football. To be honest they were being sexist.
dasilva
Guest
"How does a female show she has credentials in a mans sport? Use your sports column to write about strategies and the actual game rather then berate off field incidents and champion womens rights, is a start." Amen to that. A certain Rebecca Wilson comes to mind there for what female journalist shouldn't do.
katzilla
Roar Guru
I agree, but like i implied below all its going to take is for one Rosa Parks to sit on that bus like she knows she belongs there and things will change. The current crop look at the seat, question the seat, complain about the harrassment they may receive whilst sitting on the seat, but aren't owning the seat. When will the Rosa of Female Sports Commentary come along?
katzilla
Roar Guru
It will be a non issue once a great female commentator shows up, the ones around today are pioneers for sure but no Comettis or Benauds. In NZ one of the highest rated rugby minds is a female journalist, she wins every celebrity tipping comp she enters and can pick apart any rugby teams strategies by her half time report. What men want is someone with the confidence to execute her job as well or better then the men currently doing their job (not hard when old Mexted still gets a run), i don't really see that with the few female commentators or writers out here. Eventually a gem of a female commentator will rise to the heights of the Benauds and Comettis, and all this will be forgotten. As for the posters above who talk about pitch of voice, it has nothing to do with pitch of voice when you hear Football callers screaming goal down the microphone in the voice of an 8 year old girl. Watch the Netball and tell me you don't enjoy Liz Ellis's Commentary? Shes an expert who is confident in what shes calling and you know she has the credentials. How does a female show she has credentials in a mans sport? Use your sports column to write about strategies and the actual game rather then berate off field incidents and champion womens rights, is a start. (Germaine Greer is good reading in the Editorial section, not on the back page)
Freud of Football
Roar Guru
Robbie Slater is exactly the same in football. He's about as articulate as George W and as interesting as a rock.
katzilla
Roar Guru
Seriously Viscount, Role Play forums are that way ---->
dasilva
Guest
The idea that we shouldn't have female commentating on a male sport really is ridiculous (I'm not saying that you Brett Mckay are saying that) I mean, we see male commentators commentating in female sports all the time and no female goes up in arms about it.
Bill
Guest
I enjoyed that last paragraph Spiro, especially how you resisted the urge to name names!?!?! hehehe
In the Game
Roar Rookie
I take your point. I know it wasn't pre-pubescent boys because I get the comments every now and then. However, it was an article meant to open up the sensible debate that did not denigrate any particular person. Naming people would do just that and I want to stay away from that.
spiro zavos
Guest
Dr Johnson, the epitome of common sense, was once asked rather provocatively by Boswell: 'Who is superior, a man or a woman?' Dr Johnson replied: 'Which man, which woman?' And I think this is the right answer to the question of whether women sports commentators are any good. There is no outstanding female commentator to match the best like Richie Benaud and Peter Sterling. But in saying that, there are very few male commentators at this level either, although there are very many more male sports commentators than female. The issue of whether practictioners make the best commentators is moot, in my opinion. When you get a great broadcaster who also is deeply knowleadgeable about the practice of their sports by having played at the highest level, you get the rare unbeatable combination. But the general rule in my opinion is, a good broadcaster who hasn't played at the highest level is always preferable to someone who has but has no idea about broadcasting and commentary. In rugby, for instance, to digress from the main topic, there are just too many former players in the broadcast booths as so-called experts when they contribute nothing much more than a profound ignorance about the game and its laws and an obnoxious favouritism of their home side.
Gweeds
Roar Rookie
I think that football has a very good asset in female commentators. And that is for games played by males as well. Which other code could provide females commentators who have actually played the game at a high level? How many female journalist commentators represented their nations at world cups or at an Olympics? It would be a great advertisement of the game if SBS employed them for the FIFA World Cup in South Africa. It would show that unlike other codes, women commentators know their stuff because they actually played the game. Considering the substantial number of women viewers during the World Cup it should not be an opportunity to be missed.
cab711
Guest
Im sorry but I havent heard the W-League commentators but if you are comparing them to the Fox group then its a safe bet these ladies are infinitely better. Sometimes I just want to throttle Harper cause he adds nothing to the game. Or how about Zdrillics after match analysis where he quotes possesion statistics and mentions after we lost that the next game is important and the team will need the 3-points? OMG HOW F@#KEN OBVIOUS!! Its not that hard to be a commentator surely? Just read the names of the players that receive the ball, comment on nice passes, fake excitement when someone scores and don't insert personal opinion.
Mike Oxhard
Guest
When they line up in a defensive formation and rip in or tee off from the same tees then they can commentate on men sport. Up until that time leave it to the men however on the flip side you do not need to have played the game at a high level to be a good commentator as sycophants like Andrew Voss and Ray Warren attest to.
Midfielder
Guest
Some photos of the Mariners V SFC match... you can see how much the girls put in ... http://gallery.camwheeler.com/Football/W-League-2009/Round-1-Sydney-vs-Central/9859815_CsCxp#670820708_EqBUs Click through the photos ... just to see how committed these girls are ...
dasilva
Guest
I think a way to prevent this scenario. Is to simply downplay it and not create such a big deal and depoliticised the event. I believe the media should change the way they cover this issue. When a women gets into a position of importance. It's not a victory for womens rights, it's not making the position more reflective of society, it's not a message to empower women worldwide (similarly I believe people should depoliticised the importance of race as well. The whole Obama phenomenom had too much importance on his race) It's simply a person getting appointed to the job because they are best suited to it. No fan fare no great media coverage. Just a shrugged and move on. If the media plays this as anything else it would just lead to accusation that it is a marketing gimmick and that the women is only selected only because she is a women and is a token selection etc. It would also put the person on unnecessary pressure as she is not just doing this for herself but for women everywhere which quite frankly is a burden for anyone.
dasilva
Guest
Yes she made a mistake about using youtube as a source. However that doesn't change the fact that the appointment of Jacqui Oatley was controversial. It is certainly not a non-issue or the writer being precious as Sam Gilbert implied. Whether Sun is a good newspaper or not doesn't change the fact that we have an ex-england international striker who was against her appointment solely because she was a women (he even acknowledge that he had no problem with commentator with no playing experiences. Although saying that, she used to play for the women amatuer "Greater London League" before she suffered an injury that left her on crutches for 10 months that ended her playing ambitions). In any case some quotes that would have been more credibly use. From http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-449195/She-talks-good-game-verdict-split-lady.html (I hope the Daily Mail is more credible source). "I am from the old school when football press boxes and commentary positions were men-only locations and the thought of a female commenting on football was abhorrent. The mould was broken by Julie Welch, who wrote match reports for The Observer, since when females on football in the written press have become greater in number. But voice commentary is very different. It is an insult to the controlled commentaries of John Motson, Mike Ingham and Alan Green that their domain is threatened by a new arrival whose excited voice sounds like a fire siren." STEVE CURRY - Sportsmail football writer "I am totally against it and everybody I know in football is totally against it. The problem is that everybody is too scared to admit it. I knew this would happen eventually. The world of football is so politically correct these days. But commentating is different. You must have an understanding of the game and the tactics and I think in order to do that you need to have played the game. I'm completely relaxed about women presenting football shows. Women like Clare Tomlinson are very good. Maybe the BBC are trying to be innovative and ground-breaking but I think it undermines the credibility of the programme and when she commentates at the weekend I will not be watching. I never really agreed that we should have women officials and I don't think we should have female commentators. And my wife agrees!" DAVE BASSETT Ex-Premiership manager
sam.gilbert
Roar Rookie
agree
Freud of Football
Roar Guru
"I wish it was just the pre-pubescent boys Freud of Football. " - Well how do you know it wasn't? Because their username was "MiddleAgedMan35"? How do you know who it was writing the comments on Youtube? Could just as easily have been some disgruntled male commentators. And if you don't want to misquote then lookup your sources and provide a reference, no-one can accuse you of misquoting someone if you can back it up and if you can't then your whole piece is unfounded and hence pointless which is a shame because it is a genuine issue.
Freud of Football
Roar Guru
You haven't and won't see anything like that in Aus. The Australian media is a lot more conservative than Australian's would like to believe and yes the Sun's headlin is obviously trying to be inflammatory as they always are and no the Sun isn't a credible news source. If you want to write opinion pieces, base it on hard facts, quotes from people who know and show how you come to a conclusion. You can't go around writing this sort of opinion piece on what is a genuine issue and back it up with Youtube comments and Facebook groups.
dasilva
Guest
ok having done more research. No one was fired (it was just people campaigning for her to be sacked, there is a whole facebook account and website dedicated her getting sack. Having read it, it has nothing to do with her commentating and all to do with the fact that she is a women). Nevertheless there is a controversy over Jacqui Oatley commentating http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article26056.ece now I admit Sun news isn't exactly the most credible news source in the world but the fact that the headline say "Should girls be commentating?" (Instead of is Jacqui Oatley good enough to commentate MOTD) shows that women commentating sports seems to be an actual major issue in the UK and not just restricted to a few youtube comment (I admit the writer should have used that as the source rather then youtube comment). I haven't seen any headlines like that in any Australian newspapers yet.