IPL sides struggle against champion teams

OK, 0 out of 2, with T & T and NSW both winning their semis. But honest, I got my last 472 tips before this one correct ... really ...

I am surprised you did not wonder if Conn had made a Freudian slip here.

Interesting to see this line in his article: "which brought together the best domestic Twenty20 teams from the eight leading cricket nations" - So he doesn't rate Pakistan then?

"it’s the sole reason I’m refraining from trying to select anyone going forward of the semis, nevermind winning the thing" Let me stick my neck out a little: * Cape Cobras will definitely beat T & T * NSW vs Vic is harder to pick but I incline toward Vic

I wouldn't dare bring Malcolm Conn from The Australian down by comparing myself to him, but I see we're on a similar wavelength on this topic: http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,26238091-5001505,00.html

Guys, some late comments of reply.. Greg, you're quite right about Deccan being a useful team, and in fact all 12 teams are very handy cricket teams, hence the title of the competition. The chance element you describe is very apt for T20 too, and it's the sole reason I'm refraining from trying to select anyone going forward of the semis, nevermind winning the thing. As I said in the article, Deccan lost both their games in the last over, and in fact one was off the last ball or two. Another CLT20 game was decided with the Super Over too, which I think is what replaced the bowl-off. One other point about the comp - you've got the southern hempisphere teams coming into their season, while the northerners are finishing theirs. Now by rights, you'd expect the SH sides to be a little rusty (especially non-international players), but we have three SH side in the semis, and until Mon night, the Cape Cobras had played virtually mistake-free cricket. This is another factor against the IPL sides, in my view. Also on the IPL sides, I'd be very concerned if I was an Indian cricket administrator, because precious few Indian players have done well in this series. With the IPL sides buying which ever international player they can, the local players are missing out dearly. 12 players have (so far) topped 100+ runs for the series, and only two are from India (Sehwag and Uthappa). Also, another 12 players have taken 5 or more wickets, and only Anil Kumble features with 5. In fact there are only two IPL players in total, and the other is Dirk Nannes with 9. My point is that the IPL might be great for Indian tv and cricket followers (and international cricketers), but it's not helping the local game.. Freud the big difference with the football teams of the world, and all their players of nations, is that they at least have an off-season together. The IPL teams would have had up to half their players - and mostly all theirs stars - flying in just before the tournament. I wouldn't have been surprised if there were introductions taking place as the walked onto the field for their first game! Fred, you have hit the nail on the head with regard to West Indian priorities. Pure and simple: it's money. They haven't got any, and they want more. I hear that the dispute has been settled, but then I read this morning that even the great BC Lara has come out and said he fears for their competitiveness against Australia. I think his words were "I expect a hiding.." But full credit to T&T for getting to the semis, they've played some outstanding cricket, and have really provided some colour and character to the tourament. The wicket celebrations have been outstanding!! (and I've just realised what I typed there - I mean they've "provided colour" in the best possible way...)

Some very astute observations there Greg. I haven't a lot to go by with Pollock but most people who knows something about the game and have seen him in the flesh say he is either in the Top 3 or the best batsman of all time. JP Duminy certainly is excellent and I saw both series against Australia earlier this year but I certainly wouldn't put him in that upper echelon of all-time greats, I don't think he's THAT special. Secondly, Jacques Kallis is there number 3 and a bloody good one. He won't play for ever but SAF should let Duminy develop ala Ponting, down the order without the huge responsibility of holding the innings together and once he has established himself then elevate him to three where I too see his future. You're certainly correct about the chance aspect of T20's. That's part of the reason I'm not a fan. In my heart of hearts I know England are better than The Netherlands (although I'd still love to see the dutch paste them every time) but in this format, one over means as much to a game as on session in tests or a 5 over powerplay in ODI's. 1 over, 6 balls can be a fluke and it can win the game, it's not really cricket when you're odds are about the same as rolling dice. Regarding the mix of players though with your comment that IPL teams will "not have the unity of purpose that a group of similar people from the same place will have". I think it's not so much the "common cause" that is lacking its the time to have played together, know the best way to get 100% out of your players and implementing that in a match which is lacking in the IPL teams. Look at any football team across the world, generally they are a total mixture of nations, of languages, cultures and religions and yet they can play as a team because they do so, day-in day-out for an extended period of time, even if they can't say more then "yes yes", with time their teammates learn where they will run etc but this time isn't afforded to the IPL teams, the franchises expect them to get together a couple of weeks a year and be a team, it doesn't work like that.

Brett, I have impressed with T&T's performance and perhaps it gives an insight to where the priorities for West Indian cricket lies (which does not bode well for the upcoming Test series...then again, has that changed at all?). I think it also shows that as you mentioned...these provincial teams are ones that play throughout the summer and build some team dynamics and know each other's strengths and can play off that (and dare I say pride in their state/province/country?). Fact is IPL teams are franchises that wont build up those intangibles for many years yet. Greg, I'm not convinced about Henriques yet either despite more learned commentators telling me otherwise.

Brett, The wails of lament from cricinfo have drawn public attention to the woes of the IPL teams throughout this tournament, and it's been evident for a few days now that none of them would make the final four. So even before your article there has been plenty of stimulus to think about what has been gone wrong for them. Sorry, but I think that your "the IPL teams have just proven the old cliché, that a team of champions is no match for a champion team" is oversimplified. Firstly, the Deccan Chargers are a champion team, having won the IPL. Secondly, I know you follow Australian domestic cricket closely, so I shouldn't have to remind you that the NSW team of 2008/9 could hardly be described as a "champion team" - they came last in both the 4-day and 1-day competitions, and they were hardly a commanding team in The Big Bash. Thirdly, a lot of the NSW team - and in particular, just about all their bowling attack - were infrequent players for NSW last year, with Lee and Clark not playing at all. So if anything NSW is more a "team of champions" rather than one hardened in the heat of battle. Finally, the IPL is a tough competition, in which teams play much more T20 cricket than in the Big Bash (I can't comment on other countries, but I'd be surprised if any have a round-robin with as many as 14 matches). So if anything it's the IPL teams who should be the most battle hardened. So what went wrong for the IPL teams? I haven't watched very much, but here are some stabs in the dark: 1. Chance. The nature of T20 is that there will always be some "chance" results of favourites losing to minnows (e.g. Zimbabwe beating Australia in 2007, Holland beating England this year). I suspect the Indian teams were the ones to cop these results this time. 2. A more accurate recasting of your explanation might be that franchise teams will not have the unity of purpose that a group of similar people from the same place will have. Now that one thinks about it, it's hard to think of cases where franchise and provincial/national teams are mixed together in the one competition. It would be a bizarre competition that pitted the Harlem Globetrotters against Spain in basketball or the NY Yankees against Cuba in baseball in supposedly meaningful competitions. 3. One should not forget that the two best teams in last year's IPL were Delhi and Chennai, who finished the round-robin well ahead. Deccan and Bangalore were both very average for the round-robin, but they squeezed into the semis, and then hey presto, they won one-off SFs against the two best teams, and thus they were in the CLT20. In short, one shouldn't necessarily think of Deccan and Bangalore as being really top teams. 4. If I focus on Andrew Symonds, I see a player who always needed a heavy diet of cricket to find his best form, but is now trying to do well without playing a lot of cricket. Not surprisingly, he's not doing well (a fate that may also await others who are following the same path, e.g. Flintoff and Oram). Well this is really a one-off point rather than something relevant to all the IPL teams, but I couldn't resist writing it! Well I'll stop being reasonable here, and instead throw out some outrageous tips that have been brewing in me for a while now and have not been inconsistent with CLT20 action: a. JP Duminy is the best South African batsman since Graeme Pollock and has the potential to dominate world cricket like Ponting, if only South Africa would recognize just how good he is and elevate him to no. 3 (in all their teams), and base their entire batting around him. b. Moises Henriques will follow the path of Cameron White and become a specialist batsman noted for his big hitting. (Just look at the pies he bowled to K Pollard the other night!)

MC, I think we should keep the term test match for true Australian sports such as 5 day cricket, rugby league/ union and football(soccer) internationals. You would have to be un Australian to not like those sports :)

MC, that's not even funny...

all we need now are T20 test matches??

MC, Nemo, this year's Big Bash will be interesting with the number of internationals sigining for domestic sides, and may well pave the way for the future of the comp. I love the idea of Friday Night Cricket, at that time of year when we're subjected to endless reruns of Police Academy movies and M*A*S*H, it'd be a welcome addition. Unfortnately, I'm sure Fox have got domestic cricket tied up for another few years, a new deal only just got announced recently... MC, Clark's spell the other night against Somerset - 3/15 from 4 - was basically match-winning on its own. T20 has seen a shift in the last two seasons, and this has continued through the IPL, the T20WC, and now the CLT20. Where once T20 cricket was dominated by bat, and scores of 180-210 were needed, taking the pace off the ball is now king, and 150 is easily defendable. As is 111 on a diabolical wicket, as we saw overnight....

I agree with you MC regarding the KFC big bash. I think there is a real window of opportunity there for Australian cricket for the December/ January prime time market. Its a fresh sport for the Australian public, I remember watching NSW vs VIC on TV earlier in the year at homebush (the game Cullin played in) and it seemed to be a great night for the spectators getting I think 20K crowd through the gates. There is certainly something there for cricket Australia to develop. As MC indicated, opportunities to bring in foreign county teams for a quick game(esp now that Australia has a large Indian student population).

We've always suggested that the Australian domestic scene is the best in the world - - this helps reinforce this. Now, we just need a regular domestic T20 competition (the KFC big bash) to give us a Friday night prime time game each week on tele over about 8 weeks. It's already attracting crowds of 10-20K, and we'll only see more internationals wanting to be a part of it. We could have the states plus a couple of 'franchise' teams partake?? Back to the current tourney - What we have seen is the benefit of quality bowling, checking the economy rates of guys like Nannes, McDonald, Clark, Lee, McKay and Thomas from Somerset and Welegedera - guys who picked up wickets but also had economy rates below 6. Clark below 5 and Lee below 4. And 4 of the top 5 wicket takers are Australian, with 3 being Victorian.....although Nannes has been playing for Delhi. Batting wise, we've seen Hughes and Warner the keys for NSW, and the Vics....haven't really had a dominant display yet, might that be just around the corner?

Right, Freud... if this makes any sense at all, I'm both surprised and not surprised at how Sussex and Somerset performed. In my CLT20 preview two weeks back, I named neither team as a semi-finalist, a close-run-thing, or a smokey, but in truth, I thought it would be Sussex that might push the hardest. So Sussex have surprised me in that they didn't do much, and Somerset have surprised me in that they did... Now that the final four have been settled, I'm withdrawing from any discussion about picking a winner. In truth, any one of T&T, NSW, Vic, or the Cape Cobras can win it, and would be a very deserving champion based on performances in the tournament. But the IPL teams are the big let downs, for mine. It'll be interesting to see what kinds of crowds turn up to the semis and final now, with no IPL representation. If India truly loves T20 cricket like we're told, then all three games should still be packed. However, with no Indian flavour now at all, will the crowds turn up at all?? And will we see any knee-jerk reactions and/or mass sackings as a result of the IPL teams' failures. One other point of note too: apart from Virender Sehwag, there's been barely any "home-grown" players do well for the IPL teams. All the top performers have been internationals...

Does anyone else find it amusing that in what is County Crickets first real televised test against other domestic leagues they have been shown to be considerably out of their depth? The four teams that you mentioned Brett - Trinidad & Tobago, New South Wales, South Africa’s Cape Cobras and Victoria - as well as all having recently tasted success are littered with international players who play together at both domestic and international level on a pretty regular basis. It's the same reason that Man City (and I hope I don't eat my words) won't win the title this year or next. You can't buy success, teams take time to gel no matter what sport you're playing and games might be won on the back of individual brilliance but rarely are tournaments won in this manner. For me it has simply proven how high the quality of Australian domestic cricket actually is. Do you remember the 94-95 Benson Hedges series, Australia - Australia A were the best contests, they even knocked England out and went to the finals. I'd love to see them playing more cricket against some of the smaller nations, it would be a good way to get the team to gel before the younger players take the next step to the first XI.