Examining Group B in the 2010 World Cup

Come out of retirement Pip!

If Maradonna does his usual homework and plays to his coaching strengths I can see Nigeria causing an upset in the first game here. South Korea will take Greece apart if the latter sits back and defends. A starting win for Nigeria and South Korea could make this an interesting group indeed.

"I have never accused the AFL of derailing any WC bid." Fair enough. That line wasn't directed to you but more to some other sentiments on the board. The only thing I directed at you was that I basically agree with what pip is saying barring some few unfortunate statements.

Dasilva, I have never accused the AFL of derailing any WC bid. I said right along the sky is not falling down, the codes know they will need to get together to work out an agenda of how the scheduling will go, what grounds will be used etc. The bid was always going ahead, bid presented tomorrow to FIFA. Now all this talk of what what grounds are required are all coming out of the AFL. By the way they have every right to. But all this talk of closing down the whole season was BS & a big part of Pip's argument. Now I don't know the ins & outs of what is happening but as one of the few things Richard Hinds says I agree with; 'Whether the FFA's position is being wilfully misrepresented by the AFL in order to stir up antipathy towards the World Cup bid, or the FFA is unwilling or unable to provide sufficient details, confusion and misinformation about what disruption the Cup would cause abounds.' Now maybe you & Pip know, but I don't, But I don't go around making statements like Pip does or how you believe, because I don't know. All this does is inflame the situation. Know the facts than argue your point is how I believe to be.

Exaclty my thoughts dasilva, especially about Etihad. That stadium will be an AFL owned oval ground soon enough and can't see how it's a good outcome spending money on that ground or promoting it. Swan street is possibly the jewel in the crown as too HAL success and will be one of the most loved grounds for Football in the nation come 2022. As to Pip, I wasn't that surprised what he said, he went over the top but that's him. The constant cutting and pasting of the same argument was a low point but he is taking a little rest. I am really hoping the NRL and the FFA can reach agreement because I don't want to witness such a slanging match between my two favorite sports.

Excellent dasilva, you should be his speechwriter. Calm, rational, well argued. But, when it gets lost in as you said "attacking FIFA, FFA calling them liars and calling us for being cultural cringe and general over the top rubbish" you lose lots and lots of brownie points. In the end this is what you are remembered for. This is now Pip's stigma with many soccer followers and when you make remarks like “we don’t need the eyes of the world on us – we just want to watch our footy” Need I go on...

Punter The general gist of Pip's argument is generally spot on AFL has exclusive contractual use of MCG and Etihad stadium Now if the World Cup bid doesn't want to used that stadium. There would be no issues. Just remember AFL are under no moral or legal obligation to let anyone used those stadiums The fact that they are willing to let go of the MCG means they are doing more then what should be reasonably expected of them. Now due to the cock up of the rectangular stadium where it will cost more then it was expected to upgrade it. FFA wants to used Etihad stadium which is now causing the conflict between FFA and AFL. Like I say, AFL are under no obligation to give up used of the stadium. Now as a football fan, I don't even want FFA to used etihad for the world cup bid. I want the World Cup to leave a legacy over australia and actually produced some benefit for Football in terms of infrustructure. Upgrading Cricket and AFL ovals is not my idea of that. MC and Pip's point is spot on that FFA should forget about Etihad and concentrate on lobbying the government to upgrade the rectangular stadium. He is also spot on that using numerous cricket ovals in the bid is also a problem. There has been articles on the World Game website that criticised that aspect on the bid as well. The fact is, AFL are not stuffing up the world cup bids, it is the lack of stadium that is. The fact is this bid is reliant on the good will of other codes for it to succeed and therefore isn't a particularly strong bid. It's a sobering thought on how far football has to go in Australia Now if FFA was purely using football specific stadiums that aren't used and the other codes are complaining about distruption of their leagues. Then tough luck, it's a competitive market However we are distrupting the leagues of other codes using their own stadiums. The way I see it, instead of being pissed off the other codes. We should be happy that they are willing to let us used the stadiums they are contractually allow to use (as long as they are not asking huge amounts of compensation for that). So yes, I fundamentally agree with what Pip is saying. What I disagree with is when he starts attacking FIFA, FFA calling them liars and calling us for being cultural cringe and general over the top rubbish on top of the good points he made. Like I said, Pip should be more diplomatic in what he was saying and stick to the facts instead of using emotional and inflammatory language.

Unfortunately dasilva its not just my opinion. Its an opinion shared by many others. You don't share that opinion. Well that's fine. But then you have to ask yourself - how did it come to this and then you will be able to find your answer. I don't need to spell it out to you. You seem bright enough to work it out. Punter -using Unaustralian is lazy and moronic regardless of the subject.

Funny I used the word un-Australian & got branded for it & I apologised. But some one else can go around totally bagging out our world bid with no semblance of facts apart from a few incorrect quotes from the CEO of the AFL & a couple of his mates and it's ok by you. Hey this is a forum I accept that, to each to their own,

It's just an opinion from you But it is an opinion I strongly disagree with This whole football saboteur or betrayer or football Judas or whatever. It gives me the same uncomfortable feeling that I get when I hear unAustralian brandish around.

dasilva - I am not an arbiter just a person with an opinion. What other reason is there for being on this site? Pip has the right to label himself whatever he wishes, just the same people have the right to label him whatever they want. One hopes this doesn't change.

Fair point Ok perhaps the word "right" was poorly chosen word. Nevertheless, The point is that no one here is an arbiter on what a true football should be. Once you start limiting on what a football fan should be like what their opinions should be. You are also starting to get into a pretty dangerous and conformist territory. The only real condition to be a football fan is that you enjoy watching the game PS Actually my views on refugee rights is pretty polar opposite to the liberal party stance. However I just wanted to avoid getting into debate with people like Beast-A-Tron so left it as a neutral comment. I don't go on football forums to discuss politics unless the politics is related to football (which refugee rights isn't)

BTW Dasilva, you probably come from an area when AFL is huge & caught in the hysteria of what the FFA have or haven't done. I can assure you it's AFL that aint looking that good up here not the FFA. I come from Sydney & should the RL CEO said a few things but certainly no hysteria like you see from the AFL states. As a matter of fact Phil Rothfield (one of the biggest Antii-football journalist in Sydney), wrote that he embraces the World cup bid & what benefits it brings to his chosen sport.

Wow Dasilva, huge call & you are justified to call it. But please understand that others are abit preturbed but the over the top, 24 hr attack on the WC bif & the attack on football authorities by Pip. Maybe that he follows football he understands better than most what a world cup in Australia can do to football in this country. Hence he fears it, but..... He has made afew antagnoists friends out of football fans, but the biggest anti-football fans in the AFL ranks are in biggest allays, work that out. NP you have no issues with, but others felt he went way over the top, I for one have not read his article above. Please accept that.

I made my criticism of Pip in the post above. He certainly went overboard. I would have preferred if he was a person who wants Australia winning the World Cup but pointing out the justifiable flaws of the bid that FFA has to correct rather then someone who seemingly wants the world cup bid to fail and enjoy seeing it fail. You are right that he is not a football fan just like me and you. That's because football fans don't all think the same. Football fans come in diversity of opinions. Just like there are football fans in Australia who want Australian Football/Socceroos/ A-league to fail due to ethnic clubs being excluded from the A-league. They come in various shapes and form. To me Pip is like a person who loves watching football but has little to no respect to the authorities running the game (FIFA and FFA). He isn't the only one.

dasilva - You stating that people don't have the right to feel a certain way is pretty dangerous. If people want to think that Pip is a football saboteur then its their right. If people want to think that Rudd or Abbott is the devil incarnate, its their right. You don't think Pip is a football saboteur, cool, its your right. P.S - But then again you think that locking up innocent children is perceived human rights abuse. At least you are consistent :)

You're right dasilva, he is a football fan. A football fan who doesn't want the world cup in Australia. Who doesn't want world cup matches played in Etihad or the G. Who prefers to cancel our world cup bid so that he doesn't have to go 8 weeks without watching his precious AFL. Who calls Buckley and Lowey deceptive ignorant liars. Who calls FIFA a bunch of corrupt foreigners - even though he comes from a foreign background himself, and Australia have four or five members on various FIFA committees (Murray, Buckley, Lowey, Barlow and the last I heard Didulica). Who professes more concern about the precious financial and contractual interests of the AFL than about having the biggest football competition in the world in his own backyard. Who revels in what he feels is the AFL telling FIFA to pi$$ off and hold the world cup somewhere else. He is a real football fan just like you and me. What a joke.

I understand what your metaphor is. People don't want Pip to carry the Football fan badge because he has criticised the World Cup bid Just like AI doesn't want Ruddock to wear the AI badge due to their perceived human rights abuse The fact is those people who feel that way don't have the right. If its insults them that Pip is continuing writing football articles after his criticism well then they can get stuff as it is completely unreasonable All this football saboteur is just pure nonsense.

dasilva - I am using a metaphor as to how some people feel in regards to Pip. Why is this such a difficult concept to grasp. I hereby state that I am not the head of the FIFA sanctioned Football Fans Federation. The feeble mindedness and pedantry some of the people on this forum is mind boggling. And you wonder why some people have left or don't spend as much time here as they used to.

I'm sorry but you are not an arbiter of who is a football fan and who is not. Now Amnesty International may ask Ruddock to not wear that badge as it is their organisation and their brand. However no one on the board or in the world owns the term football fans (not even FIFA). Who the hell are you to tell someone what they are and what they are not. As with anything a football fan comes with diversity of opinion and views.