Will these Socceroos make the plane?

squad most likely to go to world cup IMO- GK- Schwarzer. Federici, Galekovic DF- Wilkshire, Neill, Kisnorbo, Chipperfield Williams, Moore, Milligan, Carney DM- Culina, Grella Jedinak, Valeri AM- Emerton, Cahill, Bresciano Vidosic, Holman ST- Kewell Kennedy, McDonald EMERGENCIES- Spiranovic, Carle, Ruka POSSIBLE JOKER CARD- Oar (depending on where he goes bt now and cup) My team- GK- Schwarzer. Federici, Galekovic DF- Emerton, Neill, Milligan, Wilkshire Kisnorbo, Bosnar, Chipperfield DM- Grella, Valeri, Culina, Kilkenny AM- Bresciano, Cahill, Carle, Oar Holman, Carney ST- Kewell Kennedy, McDonald EMERGENCIES- Moore, Garcia, Viduka (may as well coax Viduka away from the Sunshine hungry jacks coz after Jesus and superMac there is NO ONE)

That's pretty much the squad I had written down. Except maybe moving Vidosic wide right and Holman in behind. Reading some other comments, there is the possibility of leaving out either Valeri or Rukavytsya for McDonald as another striking option. But if Pim is to stick strictly to two sets of 4-2-3-1, then I think you're on the money. Interested to see how the next 4 months impact on things, seeing who gets some game time so that a bolter (eg Lowry, Holland, Troisi) or a fringe player (eg Garcia, Djite) may force their way in.

Hahahahaha, Leeds parked the bus!!!! LOL Possession Man Utd 46% Leeds United 54% Shots on goal/target Man Utd 18/5 Leeds Utd 9/3 Goal keeper saves Man Utd 6 Leeds Utd 7 Dont mind me though mate, Im just a parochial Leeds fan, you do make some good points ;)

Yes sledgeross, Leeds beat Man Utd, but you have to remember that was derby game. Furthermore, I didn't say the League One teams can't beat world class teams. It is possible to park the bus and put 10 players behind the ball and knick a win. I'm referring to the performance; e.g. how much possession did they have? Gamba lost 5-3 to Man Utd in the FIFA Club World Cup and really took it to Man Utd. They have the ability to do that, Leeds does not. As for playing Asia, yes most of the Aussies in Asian leagues are not good enough to make it the major European leagues. However, League One is not a major league. I'm not saying that Kilkenny should play in an Asian league, I'm just saying that the J-League is one of the better leagues in the world. Kilkenny was in the Arsenal youth system and was on the books of Birmingham when they were in the EPL, so he's probably good enough to play in the EPL. So he should stay in England. I don't think I ever said that he should leave England; I only suggested that he might be more seriously considered if he was playing in the J-League i.e. a hypothetical. Eddy Bosnar is not getting picked for the Socceroos because there is plenty of competition at centre back (even if it a appears that only 2 or 3 are true international standard). Josh Kennedy is playing in the J-League and still getting picked for the Socceroos.

Saji: didnt Leeds beat a strong Man United team recently in the FA Cup? Didnt Leeds unluckily lose to Liverpol 1 nil in the Carling cup a few months ago? Kilkenny is playing in England because he is a differnt class of player to those playing in Japan. Generally, most of our players playing in Asia are doing so because they are not good enough to play in European leagues, or they cant obtain the correct work visas. Kilkenny has played Premier league games when he was younger, is playing at one of the biggest clubs in England (who will likely get promoted this year). Hes starting in the most dominant team in league one and garnering admiration for his ability to create scoring chances (leeds knocked back a million pound offer for him in the off season). But I guess playing in Japan does help you get capped by Pim, just ask Eddiy Bosnar!

McDonald's scoring is one thing but what may count more against him is Pim rating Kewell ahead of him as lone striker. That combinbed with the likes of Ruka, Vidosic and Carle pushing for a left attacking mid spot might convince Pim to go to SA with what I've just outlined below.

Pretty sure if Chippers is fit he'll be starting. Pim values his experience and ball skills over Carney. --------------Schwarzer Wilkshire---Neill---Moore---Chipperfield ---------Culina-----Grella Emerton------Cahill------Bresciano ---------------Kewell res. --------------Federici, Petkovic Williams--Spiranovic--Kisnorbo---Carney ------------Jedinak----Valeri ----Holman----Vidosic----Rukavytysa -----------------Kennedy

Carle's more in contention with Vidosic for creative/left mid, Holman's in the frame as a right attacking mid/deep-lying striker. Pim rates North for his versatility (and he isn't that bad) but he's in deep freeze and Incheon and hence out of the picture. Colosimo didn't do his cause too many favours in Kuwait but if he has a good A-League finals and gets a loan deal then he'd still be in the frame as a replacement for an injured Moore/Neill.

Rocktrap is pretty spot on. McDonald needs to be on the plane to South Africa - don't forget it took Viduka a while to get going & score regularly for Australia - and that was against Oceania opposition.

Mostle agree with Davstar. Killkeny is better of at Leeds because he is playing and also because not all league 1 clubs are equal. leeds are a big club so they might not be in the championship but they likley will next year and he is expected to play well each week. would be a different story if he was at a smaller club, although I am still not a big fan of moving from a team where your getting regular football unless it's a very clear step up.

I agree with your views that lower league European players moving to the J-league. 2 reasons why: 1. Playing in the J-league would mean these players would be available for national duty when the dates aren’t FIFA dates ie. Asian cup games so we would at least able to expect weaker nationals like Kuwait and Indonesia when our European stars are N/A. 2. Once you’re in a lower division it’s hard to get out or move up unless your team gets promoted it’s also hard to get noticed playing in low divisions. I think Kilkenny could go to the J-league but i dont think he will he is getting game time and is favored b the manager i agree its a better standard but why risk not playing hs only 23. We also have to consider the difference in life style the player would have to undergo moving from England to Japan language is the main problem. We must consider player needs not just what’s best for our socceroos sometimes. I would like players not getting game time such as Carle and Dijt should move to the J-league. Spria has done the best i think by being loaned out so if he doesnt suit the life style and league he goes back to germany and if he does well he extends his stay.

I was referring to their performances in those games. Crap teams can park the bus against good team and sneak a 1-0 win or a narrow loss. That does not make them a good team. Those J-League teams had a fair share of possession in those FIFA CWC games and created a decent number of chances. I agree that all the "major" European and South American league are better than the J-League. However, of the league from the rest of the confederations, the J-League has to be either the best or right up there. So maybe top 15 is a bit of an overestimation when you consider that there are roughly 10 countries in South America. The point I was trying to prove was that Neil Kilkenny would be more seriously considered for the Socceroos if he was playing the J-League than if he was playing for Leeds. You might argue the Kisnorbo and Coyne made the Socceroos by playing in League One. However, they are defenders; their job is to destroy. Midfielders create, so the opposition they play against is more important in selection decisions. Obviously, there's more to it than that because Kilkenny appears on the outer for things he said.

Manchester united came down to Melbourne about 20 years ago played Melbourne knights and only won 2-nil does that make them better then an A-league side? Reading beat Liverpool at Anfield today in the FA cup the CCC is better then the J-league? A div 3 team laliga def Real Madrid 1st team a few months back does that make them a world class team? You can't base a whole league on a single game, players step up to win cup matches it happens all the time. If you watch the general playoff the J-league you would see it lacks Physically the refs are way to soft and the league has some of the worst Goal keepers I’ve ever seen. Not to mention the finishing is also still at a poor standard. They are better than our A-league because there is less space, off ball movement is much better and overall technical ability of players is higher such as dribbling and free kicks however tactics in the J-eague sem to be very poor im comparision to the A-league. That’s how you compare a league you dont just look at a few games and say they are in the top leagues in the world. Because watch any South American league and compare it to the J-league and you will see that they are Technically far more adv then even some European leagues and that finishing is clinical in almost every striker and midfielders off the ball play is of a higher standard then most mid-tier European leagues.

I was referring to Gamba in 2008 who got to the semis and lost 5-3 to Man Utd and Urwa in 2007 who also got to the semis and lost 1-0 to Milan. Very respectable results and if I remember correctly, the performances were quite good (they weren't completely outplayed). My point was that you're not going to see a top team from League One or the Championship doing that. As for the MLS being better than the J-League, the MLS does have some excellent foreign players. And, yes the US are highly ranked. However, the success of the US national team is similar to the success of the Socceroos; it is built on organisation in defence, great team unity and a strong work ethic, not technical proficiency (both the US and Aus have a handful of world class players but for the most part are just hard workers). The average US/MLS player is not as good technically as average J-League player. So as the ACL has proven for Australian teams, if you're lacking technically, you need to be extremely well organised in defence (e.g. Adelaide) to progress. So only the best coached MLS teams would be any good against good international competition. When Gamba won the ACL, they were mid-table in the J-League and qualified for comp by winning the Emperor's Cup. That shows you the strength of the league. MLS teams can't even win their confederation's champions league.

They didnt played in the last fifa club world cup it was a K-league team...LMAO

I obviously can't prove this because J-League teams don't play against League 1 teams. However, you only have to look at the performances of the J-League teams in the FIFA Club World Cup to see that their best teams can match it with Europe and South America's best in one off games. The best League 1 teams wouldn't be able to do this. IMO the J-League is better than the Championship and the most of the lower tiers in Europe. It might be better than some of the 1 divisions in Europe e.g. Romania, Hungry etc. The Japanese are among the most technically proficient players in the world due to their youth setup. They used to lack mental and physical toughness, but they've improved that immensely in recent times. And, they have some very good foreign coaches. How many leagues can say that?

I even dear say the MLS is better then the J-league it has some great players in it David Beckham and Donven and a few others. Remeber the yanks are ranked 14th in the world

Yea i would have to agree. If Federici goes to liverpool he will be 2nd as for the 3rd choice thats highly up for grabs.

J-league is better the 3 tier england but, no chance its top 15 you would put every nation that has teams in the CL then every league thats in Europa and somewhere in the mix you would put the South American leagues then the J-league if you think the J-league is better then the CCC, Seria B and Laliga.2 etc which i would say its around on par. its probably in the top 30

rocktrap's squad looks about right. I think the reserve goal keeping spots are very much up for grabs. Michael Petkovic and Ante Covic are probably in the mix with Galekovic and Federici. Also, I don't think Verbeek would leave out a striker to pick Carle (or another attacking midfielder). In the off chance that both Kennedy and Kewell get injured, he would have to play Cahill up front, which would mean Holman or Vidosic would play "in the hole". So that would play in McDonald's favour. However, he's not great playing up front on his own, which favours Bruce Djite. On the other hand, Bruce needs game time to advantage of this fact and he's not currently playing much at his club.