The overall long term problem for the Australia football team is summed up in that Korean goal. The defense was split wide open, earthquake size. Some decent positioning and short passing from the opposition, and bam, a convincing goal.
In attack most Australian goals come from a sloppy ball bouncing about. There are a few exceptions, but slick ball passing to cut up the defense is not a common sight.
This is a pretty consistent story. It doesn’t fill one with confidence that Australia is going out with a stern defense, some crafty attack, and a coherent mode of play that will dominate a lesser team to death. Rather you feel Australia could lose to anyone really.
The last Asian Cup highlighted that only too well. Same for the World Cup qualifiers, where Schwarzer got us through single handedly. From his work we got this reputation – by result card review – that we had a stout Italian-like quality defense.
The truth was our defense was loose and we were ready to be eaten up as soon as we came against a cutting attack. It started with the USA in the warm ups and then Germany did the job good.
But like the World Cup qualifier results, we do tend to get the results, and a result is a result, true.
But in my opinion these results don’t reflect the true nature of the game and artificially inflate our world ranking above some other teams which are better than us.
In the 2006 World Cup against Italy, a biased friend of mine was irate, believing Australia were outplaying the Italians and should be rewarded for it, thus the rules he opined should be changed so quality of play is rewarded rather than goals.
If that were the case today, Australia would be pretty lowly ranked.
The best I’ve seen the Aussies perform was in 1997 under Venables and ‘again’ – as Kewell says way too often in interview – under Aussie Guus. In those periods the team was nice to watch, had a nice formation, a coherent nature of play. There was a nice glue holding it all together, Areldite-like.
In ’97 we had a young Kewell and Big Dukes, both approaching their genuine world class stage, our attack was cutting and dangerous, supported by organisation which was good and solid.
It was frustrating in those days as Australia were underrated I felt. We were really quite good.
Today and between those periods, the glue is missing. Rather than Areldite, it’s more like the unreliable Perkins Paste that just comes apart against the slightest force.
And no we don’t expect to play like the powerhouses – Spain for example and their almost absurd tippy tappy thing, we don’t have the quality for that yet – but I do expect them to play like they did in those good periods. That is, to their potential. Indeed, under Guus we went beyond it, where I felt we could have beat anyone with a little luck.
The big frustration is we have and have had some really classy players amongst us at times, but we just don’t play, most times, with cohesion to realise that potential.
While I wouldn’t like to get into the prediction game – the Asian cup is so unpredictable, which is one thing I so like about it – we could just scrape those results like we did against Korea. The team do seem determined at least following the last debacle, and I’m starting to like the Kewell / Cahill upfront combination.
But I still fear that someone is coming out to open us up, expose our Perkins Paste adhesive, those dark horse teams from the west of the confederation in particular for some reason.
Walt
Guest
Regardless of how Australia finish in the Asian Cup there are a few very important things to remember * Australia is not stuck qualifying through Oceania and then getting the worst of the rest. The current system is much better for Australian football. Australia no longer has a good reason to miss the big one every four years. * Australia's professional league is no longer a dark age, suburban one with brawling and backstabbing * Australian club games occasionally attract big crowds and are usually good value for money * Australian players are less inclined to say "no" to international duty and are proud to pull on the shirt I know this is not news to most of us here interested in this thread, but FFS, Australias football public are so fickle and take these great leaps forward for granted. Years ago, we wouldnt have given a shit about how the Socceroos looked on the field as long as they were out there. Now that they are - how easily we forget how far we have come. On the other hand, lets not rest on our laurels. The game has a long, long way to go in Australia so lets go forward in a positive direction - rather than jerking each other off about Venables or Farinas or whoevers record.
dasilva
Guest
True that Arnold was 34 at the time but even then he was scoring goals for his club at that time. In fact looking at his goal scoring record his career at his age 32-34 was his PEAK of his career. He never top that record at NAC Breda after that stint with that club. Arnold was certainly was a late developer
MyLeftFoot
Roar Guru
You're right of course, although it has to be said that Arnie was at the very end of his career at that point, in fact, he would have been around 34 years old when he came on.
dasilva
Guest
Let's be fair on Arnold At that time Arnold was the equal top goal scorer for his club NAC Breda in the Eredivisie. He scored 35 goals in 63 match (1 in 2 games) between 95-97 and was top goal scorer (or equal top goal scorer) for his club for 3 years straight. We would kill to have a striker with that prolific record for the socceroos right now and he wasn't exactly a scott mcDonald either and has scored a reasonable amount of goals for socceroos. Arnold for all his flaws as a manager was a great servant and ambassador to the game as a player. The fact is that Hiddink recognised Arnold from his days as a player in the Eredivisie and he had a respect for Arnold due to his playing career in the netherlands and that contributed in his decision to make him decided to coach the socceroos. He only decided to coach the socceroos after talking to Arnold (before meeting arnold he only talked to the likes of Lowy and O'Neill and Wolanski the powerbrokers who had no footballing experience)
dasilva
Guest
you know most of Pim's critic didn't criticised him for not playing gung ho defensive football It's easy to put up a straw man about the unrealistic nature of joga bonito and point out the ridiculous it. Most critics generally wanted Australia to have more balanced approach on the game. To find the right balance between attacking and defensive football. Most of the critics argued that we will get better results by playing a more balanced game as well. eg. australia came to China and park the bus and got a 0-0 draw (although I do believe Pim did a good job executing his plans in that game), other nations that were weaker than Australia came to China (eg Qatar and Iraq) and defeated them by playing a far more open game then what Australia did. That perhaps Verbeek wasn't pragmatic enough and realised that we were a classed above China and reacted accordingly and therefore get the win in China. His misjudgement of China resulted in Australia dropping 2 points. It's not like style and results are contradictory. Being pragmatic does not always mean park the bus. It's realising when it's necessary to play defensive and when it is necessary to play more open why do we think it was possible for the socceroos to perform better. By comparing past performances of the socceroos that contain the same players or even the same coach (people asked if Australia were able to despatch Ireland and Holland playing entertaining football and were unable to replicate that in other games) and say Australia can do better. Results are crucial and the number one priority. That doesn't mean that the manager has to ignore everything else including our secondary priorities (such as promoting the standard of the A-league, ensure that people go and watch the Socceroos are entertain and go home wanting to come back and see the socceroos again). By the end of the Verbeek era, we got a situation where more people were willing to see Melbourne Victory play then a full strength Socceroos. Nothing has convinced me that all of that was necessary for us to qualify to the World Cup. That the alienation of the fans weren't preventable. I'm not a joga bonito fanatic that insist every must play like SPain. However I like to think it's quite pragmatic to realised that we are capable of playing more entertaining football without sacrificing the results.
phil osopher
Roar Guru
Interesting commentary. I'm not suggesting we should play an attacking 'stylish' way, nor a defensive way. My main frustration is the seeming lack of adhesion for whatever style we are supposed to be playing, that tight knit game plan where players know their role and do it, the team operating as one solid unit. I wouldn't be opposed to Australia choosing to play a pure defensive game. As long as it is a strong defense. Same for an attacking style, as long as it is attacking. I'm a rarity perhaps in enjoying watching The Special Ones teams play, that stern defense works, and if Australia played like that it'd be great. I wasn't a huge critic of Pim, but the way we tried to pass it off as a defensive style when the defense was pretty lack lustre was a bit odd. I agree that results are the most important thing, but I don't get the confindent feeling that we are going to get the results, because we are pretty loosely bound at times. But the jury is still out on this new manager, I wouldn't want to critise him yet, he needs time. But once again injuries seem to be a looming danger for us.
Jared Newton
Roar Rookie
Fozzie was also calling for ex-captains and players of the Australian team to barnstorm the Australian dressingroom after the Germany loss and wrest control of the team Bastille style. Love his passion and will not question his commitment to the Australian game but glad he isn't in a decision making role in Australian football.
Sean
Guest
Unless you subscribe to Fozzie philosphy. Ie. You can win with style.
Art Sapphire
Guest
+100 Futbanous. National teams are not club teams. National managers do not have the time to prepare their squads like their club counterparts. This is why the playing standard is higher in the UCL than the FIFA WC. Finally, Spain's tippy-tappy football is helped by most of the team playing for one tippy tappy club.
MyLeftFoot
Roar Guru
Not bad, you will note: 1. all those wins were in Australia, and 2. the same manager wasn't involved.
Jared Newton
Roar Rookie
Well said.
Jared Newton
Roar Rookie
What will kill the game in Australia is not qualifying for World Cup finals. Results are key. Drawing power is gained by playing meaningful games against big name players and fielding big name players on the park. By calling other codes more 'spectator friendly' you're basically saying football is an inferior product to other national codes and Australia are better off playing in attractive 4-3 losses than gritty 1-0 wins. Australians will get behind the Socceroos if they keep winning, kids will dream of playing football for Australia when they see the national team playing Germany and Brazil at World Cups. I do agree that style is important but why do we think the best way is to go hell for leather and try to 'put on a show' to win over the sporting public? Australians want to see their teams play to their potential, not play in flashy losses. When we put results on the pitch we're front and centre of the media reporting, this in turn creates a whole generation of 5 year olds who see Tim Cahill as an idol to aspire to play like and it deepens the talent pool of junior players available. The day we have an aussie equal to Wayne Rooney, Jermaine Defoe, Aaron Lennon, Frank Lampard, Steven Gerrard, John Terry and Rio Ferdinand in the Socceroos at any one stage then we can take the next step. Is it any coincidence that the World Cup has not been won by anyone outside South America or Europe? PS- What do John O'Neill, Frank Lowy, Richard Pratt, Frank Costa, Greg Swann, all have in common? They're pragmatists that deliver results and success in sporting organisations. Thanks for the compliment.
Fussball ist unser leben
Roar Guru
Ok the best I can do is 4 wins in 12 months against 2 UEFA opponents. Year: 1992 (all matches are friendlies) Manager: Eddie Thompson * WIN: 1-0 v Sweden * WIN: 1-0 v Sweden Caretaker Manager: Les Scheinflug * WIN: 1-0 v Croatia (note: the country had just formed as an independent nation) * WIN: 3-1 v Croatia
MyLeftFoot
Roar Guru
All true - but as I said - name an Australian NT manager with a greater list of scalps.
MyLeftFoot
Roar Guru
Fussball Read carefully what I wrote - prior to Venables, you will not find the Socceroos defeating 3 European teams in the space of 12 months. Want to have another go?
oly
Guest
Yeah how long was he in the job for? And what were the results of the games that mattered? We leaked a stack of goals at the 2005 Confed Cup and lost 3-nil away to Uruguay in 2001. We wouldn't have made it to Germany with Farina in charge, in my opinion.
Fussball ist unser leben
Roar Guru
I think you'll find excellent results in friendlies over the years. - particularly against reputed teams quite often. In 1988 under the management of Frank Arok (yeah, one of those "1st generations migrants" who gave so much to Australian football, but got very little recognition), Australia actually had fantastic results: a) 1988 against top opposition in "meaningful matches" * WIN: 1-0 against Yugoslavia (Summer Olympics, Seoul) * WIN: 1-0 against Nigeria (Summer Olympics, Seoul) Nigeria were runners up in the African Cup of Nations in that same year b) 1988 wins against top opposition in friendlies * WIN: 4-1 against Argentina, who were World Champions at the time * WIN: 3-0 against Saudi Arabia, who won the Asian Cup later that same year
MyLeftFoot
Roar Guru
I should add - I actually agree with your final para on Venables failing to act when it mattered most.
MyLeftFoot
Roar Guru
...and Graham Arnold.
MyLeftFoot
Roar Guru
Fussball - you mentioned three European nations already, remember? Did you expect me to repeat them? Do people understand how rare it used to be for the Socceroos to win games in Europe prior to Venables? Yes, you'll find the odd victory if you look hard enough, but they are far and few between - you won't find there wins inside 12 months..