Clubs are now coming out of the woodwork to express their interest in joining the NRL. Even without any definite indication from the NRL that expansion will take place, there are now seven groups that have expressed serious interest in joining the NRL at some point in the near future.
These clubs/groups are:
– Central Queensland
– Brisbane City
– Brisbane Eastern Suburbs Tigers
– Ipswich Jets
– Central Coast Bears
– Western Australia Reds
– Papua New Guinea
Four or five of the above groups have developed their bids to a significant degree and would be considered to have a compelling case for entry into the NRL.
So how does the NRL decide? It would be a terrible loss to the game if the NRL simply chooses two bids and turns the others away empty-handed. Or worse still, decides not to expand at all.
So what is the solution? A second division is the answer.
The NRL should create a second division of eight to 14 clubs. The second division would obviously not command the same sort of crowds or public exposure that the first division does.
But it would be the ideal place for aspiring clubs to prove themselves worthy of inclusion into the top tier. Those teams that perform well in the second division can eventually apply to be promoted into the first division.
Second division leagues in Europe (in soccer and both rugby codes) tend to achieve attendance figures of 25 per cent to 50 per cent of their respective first divisions.
So given the average NRL attendance is currently around 16,000, a second division might realistically aim for crowds between 4,000 and 8,000. This seems a reasonable goal given that a number of clubs currently in the Queensland Cup regularly get crowd attendances of two to three thousand with very little media exposure.
In fact, the Queensland Cup may provide the easiest and simplest route to creating a national second division. Simply expanding the Queensland Cup to include the Central Coast Bears and WA Reds would result in a solid competition with teams in most of the likely expansion areas.
Would the public have any interest in watching a second division? There is plenty of evidence that they would.
Historically, football in Australia was traditionally focused on the local region. Before the creation of the NRL and AFL, every city or regional area had its own competition which was the main focus of public attention.
There’s no reason to believe that interest in watching local clubs compete has disappeared altogether – it just needs to be revived with a quality competition. Despite their somewhat reduced circumstances, the state leagues across both major footy codes still hold significant followings.
The Queensland Cup, SANFL and WAFL still rate strongly when they are broadcast on the ABC. In fact, these strong ratings for the Aussie Rules competitions have prompted the AFL to create their own second tier of sorts this year, the Foxtel Cup.
The NRL and rugby league should not be left behind. A second division is the best way to manage expansion of the NRL.
Captain Kickass
Guest
Some great responses in this topic and I wanted to ad my 20cents. 2nd tier costs - Offset/Nullified by selling broadcast rights as separate package. (ie: like how ABC used to show Saturday rugby league years ago. Much like how Foxtel broadcasts NSW/QLD cup nowadays.) 2nd Tier logistics - Offset by clever sponsorships and windfall of rights sell-off in point above. Other Pros ... 1. Aspiring NRL clubs / expansion teams can "get their feet wet" and establish an infrastructure for stability in their chosen area. 2. Relegated clubs (and potentially, De-Merger clubs "St George", "Wests", "Illawarra", "Balmain") have the means of re-establishing their independent credentials. 3. Lower operating costs. 4. Has the backing of national and local media coverage. 5. Opportunities for savvy regional businesses to promote on a national scale by sponsoring 2nd tier clubs/venues, at a discounted premium. 6. Creates avenues for cost effective "regional expansion" and promotion. 7. Creates avenues for integration of self-supporting NSW Cup and QLD Cup and rewarding organisations who function well and warrant exposure at a higher level. In order to overhaul the NRL structure you must overhaul the NRL structure and draw. NRL Premiership = 14 teams. 26 rounds. Home and away. Play everyone twice. NRL2 = 14 teams. Same format. Open to relegated NRL teams, expansion focus areas, financially viable NSW Cup/QLD Cup/Regional teams. Promotion and relegation for 2 teams each year. - Take 5 of the best from Qld Cup (Cent Qld Comets, Ipswich Jets, Norths Devils, Logan, Toowoomba) - They deserve the chance to prove their worth, and test their mettle. (I'm NSW by the way) - Add Central Coast Bears. - Let them establish themselves like the Qld Cup teams. - Relegate Cronulla and another out of Penrith, Manly, Souths, Roosters on the grounds of fanbase and crowds. - Provide avenue to split the mergers : If St George and Illawarra (or Balmain / Wests) decide they wish to go it alone. Have the rich cousin compensate the poor one to drop down to 2nd tier ! - Add Perth (pop. 1.7million) AND Adelaide (pop. 1.2million). - Add Wellington (pop. 450K+) AND Christchurch (pop. 500K+) areas. - Add "PNG" (pop. 6million+) - Base them out of Darwin until they can sort a home out.
tom
Guest
Everyone keeps talking about the 'huge costs' involved in a national 2nd tier comp. A very simple solution would be to get an airline to sponsor it. I have always dreamed of a 2nd comp with relegation and believe it would not only work, it would be the catalysis for large growth in the sport nationally. Imagine the Indigenous All Stars playing every week based in the NT, playing teams like the North Sydney Bears, Newtown, Central Coast, a 2nd Brisbane team, PNG, a 2nd NZ team, Rockhampton, Perth, Adelaide, Tasmainia, even some Pacific Island teams sponsored by Qantas or Pacific Airlines. I would also have Balmain and Wests split up and bring footy back to a new stadium at Leichardt. With the prospect of promotion to the NRL, the comp would be well followed and of a high standard. My motto is there are many League fans out there without a team.
Djsinnema
Guest
Since rugby league has such a developed lower grade comp, that would be best served as a 2nd division. It should ultimately have 20 teams, 10 in Queensland and 10 in NSW. 16 of the teams will be for the purpose of providing a feeder club for NRL. The other 4 would be prospective teams, who if they proform strongly, and other teams in NRL struggle, they swap them. The Problem the NRL always will have, is that it is messy. Teams in Sydney are all underproforming, strugling to gain support in a cith that cares more for a Gay lifestyle festival, than its sporting teams. It dont work.
HahaBINX
Guest
Recently I started to think about the NRL and just how it would strategise and evolve the game into the future. Expansion is a must now or eventually and with so many great genuine bids, surely there must be a way for the NRL to plan it out and allow all bids to enter with franchises. Obviously that would take time, money and resources but if planned properly over a period of 10 years it will potentially work. With more teams come more games and travel costs but not if the competition is spread out in a conference system. By 2020 I would like to see the NRL implement this system. The conferences would be geographically based North, South, West, and Regional. * 20 teams overall * 5 teams per conference * Conferences will have teams grouped to minimise travel costs. * 24 games * Teams play others in their conference twice. * Play teams in other conferences once. * Nominate one team from a conference outside their own to also play twice. * With new franchises established in the 4 strongest bid locations. * 2 new teams in 2013. * 2 new teams 2015-2017. * Relocation, further expansion looked at in 2025. * The conference system being established by 2020, if not slightly earlier. The NSW RL, WA RL & Q RL will stay feeder comps/2nd grade/division competition and of course you will have your Under-20's following the same system as the NRL. The conferences would be as followed Northern Conference Brisbane Broncos Gold Coast Titans North Queensland Cowboys Brisbane 2/Ipswich Jets Central Queensland Southern Conference South Sydney Rabbitohs Melbourne Storm Cronulla Sutherland Sharks (Adelaide Sharks) St. George/Illawarra Dragons Sydney Roosters Western Conference Wests Tigers Western Australia Reds Parramatta Eels Canterbury Bulldogs Penrith Panthers Regional Conference Central Coast Bears Newcastle Knights Manly-Warringah Sea Eagles New Zealand Warriors Canberra Raiders QRL teams will be feeding into Northern Conference, some regional teams, Melbourne Storm & W.A. Reds. NSWRL will be feeding into Southern Conference, Western Conference & some regional teams. WARL & NTRL will feed into W.A. Reds VRL will feed into Melbourne Storm NZRL will feed into New Zealand Warriors. CRL will feed into regional teams.
LT80
Roar Pro
True, the Roosters are probably in no danger of being punted with Politis and his mates at the helm. However I think the Sydney Roosters have not done a good job with maintaining their own ties to the general population of the Eastern Suburbs. Changing their name from Easts hasn't won them any friends in the East, nor has the fact that it is virtually impossible to become a football club member.
LT80
Roar Pro
History has shown that mergers are a pretty bad way of changing the make-up of the competition. Have a look at Wests Tigers. They don't have twice the supporters or members than the other Sydney clubs that didn't merge. This merger took 2 reasonably popular Sydney clubs and ended up with 1 reasonably popular club, many former supporters from either side of the merger just walked away. A better way is to provide a place for the less popular teams to play, that is a second division. I am an Easts member, and if the club merged with South Sydney I would not support this new club....I would much rather the club keep it's own identity, colours and name in a lower division, and would continue to support them there, with some hope that they might play at the top level again one day.
mushi
Guest
They don't have great "crowd" support but with how revenue is generated today that is less important. It beggars beleif that rugby league fans seem to be chomping at the bit to cut ties with the wealth of eastern sydney.
Jake
Guest
Agree with this, especially the potential teams. I might add Adelaide and a second New Zealand team that plays a couple of games in other Pacific countries. I also think that Darwin and Toowoomba have potential. Relegation and promotion is an issue. I think that only clubs on the brink of dissapearing completely should be relegated, promotion on the other hand would simply be once the club is financially ready.
ac
Guest
Can someone tell me why the Roosters are allow to stay as a stand a lone club? They have much less support than other clubs. I would like to see them and Souths merge. But, it seems one of those things you never talk about. I think St George and Cronulla are another two who should merge. Then bring in the other two clubs from elsewhere.
Crosscoder
Roar Guru
Perhaps there are $300m reasons the Sharks will stay in situ plus nearly 3,000 juniors.Look for another non performing club crowdwise or junior wise,Manly,Easts,Panthers,each has its vulnerabilities,as relocation material.
LT80
Roar Pro
It's great to think positively. The Bears might get in, but they might not. If they don't get in, wouldn't you rather watch them in a quality second division than not at all?
LT80
Roar Pro
Fez, Unfortunately the 2 second tiers are not really equals. The NSW Cup is really a poor cousin. Not in the standard of football, but in the sense that there are only a few teams who are genuine clubs with their own identity and history. Newtown, Norths, Balmain and Wests are it. Balmain and Wests are already represented in the NRL. So that leaves only 2 teams with any legitimate claim to be playing at the top level. The remainder are either NRL reserve-grade teams or clubs like Windsor or Wentworthville who are just junior clubs from within the district of particular NRL clubs. There really is little need or demand for heaps more teams from Sydney in the NRL, whether the top tier or the second tier if it ever develops. A second tier needs to be skewed towards teams from the Qld Cup, because these are teams that have a long history as genuine first grade clubs, and many have potential as future NRL clubs.
LT80
Roar Pro
I think you're spot on here JiMMM. Travelling costs would not be a huge problem for a competition similar to the one you've suggested. Like you said, the majority of the teams are already playing in the Queensland Cup and the travelling is not a problem there. Generally I think people overestimate how much it costs for travelling expenses. It would probably cost each team a couple of hundred thousand dollars per year. Yes this is a lot of money, but it's not huge in the context of how much it costs to run a professional or semi-professional club. It costs about $1m per year to run a team in the Queensland Cup, for example.
turbodewd
Guest
This solution would see average player salaries remain low and thus the player drain to the other codes would continue. Sheer madness. We need less clubs in Sydney, especially not another one in NSW! If we could merge the Sharks and Easts that would rock. Or if the Sharks could move to Adelaide that would rock. A 20 team NRL would weaken the sport.
Nathan
Guest
True, not that cluey on Scotland, so thanks for the extra information but it did sound like a similar sort of situation. On the other hand, the influence of AFL within the NRL heartlands is still rather limited. Probably in excess of the reverse, but still, they shouldn't be drawing THAT many resources.
Nathan
Guest
Oh sod, got my figures mixed up... Thanks for the correction. The 11m is appx non-England UK pop, not the Scottish pop. And yes, fans can certainly support sides that aren't exactly covering themselves in Glory on the pitch. For an AFL example, the Dockers of the early 2000s and the Eagles of today. For a national example, the Australian cricket team for the last couple years! Maybe not as many supporters in the downtime, but every club gets supporters that are there for the club and not the bragging rights. A decently competitive second-division sounds like the perfect way for a club to get a supporter base as well, rather than trying to get people to sign up for a nebulous bid they've never seen on the pitch in club colours. Surely start up costs for such an enterprise would be less and thus promote participation. A top flight entirely concentrated in NSW/QLD isn't that desirable but I wouldn't say its inevitable either, especially with the state of overcrowding in the heartlands. And when you consider the ACT's location within NSW's borders, realistically there are only two teams from outside that geographic area. With a second-division, Perth could quite feasibly already be gaining competitive experience in a more forgiving environment, instead of having to take more time and money to prepare for the big plunge into the big time with the large commensurate risks. Rivalries will still pop up from time to time, and the best rivalries are going be be between clubs in the same skill range (and thus league) anyway.
The Bush
Guest
Scotland, 11m people? More like 5m my good man. However they only have professional Union to compete against, and even there they only have two sides. They have cricket and rugby league, but neither is professional. Nor is Shinty. They might have pro basketball or hockey, but I doubt that's raking in the millions in sponsors... Plus, as pointed out above, they really have two huge clubs, and then fresh air, followed by the rest. I love the classic argument; "who would support a second division side"? If fans are so fickle then what's the point. We can't all support winners... Also, as you've alluded to, being relegated might lead to a loss of some star players and a few sponsers, but then if you were making so much money, and were so chock full of talent, then you wouldn't be being relegated. In reality the teams that would be relegated, a la Cronulla at the moment, would welcome a reduction in operating costs. Besides, they have no stars to shed right now anyway! As for the risk that the top division (presumably twelve teams), would be based solely in Queensland and New South Wales, this seems a ridiculous fear for any rugby league fan. The NRL already is a competition based almost entirely in the two states. Melbourne, Auckland and Canberra are the only teams not from here. I askt his question in response, if Auckland or Canberra were to be relegated, would that really affect anything much? A second division would present a viable option for places like Adelaide, Wellington(?), Perth and other places to launch a team. I see it as an aid to increasing the profile, note a hindrance. On the final point, history and tradition, again I find this interesting. The NRL itself is only a bit over a decade old. Before that the ARL hadn't been around long either. In fact the competition is changing all the time. Sure a few traditional matches might disappear, but something Australian fans should realise is that longing only makes the event more special. If the Bunnies and the Roosters didn't play for a calender year because one went down, that would make the next meeting more special...
clipper
Guest
Ben - Tasmania? I don't think you'll get many that would agree with you there. Was down there the day after the NRL final, and all I could find was one paragraph about the result deep in the sports section!
clipper
Guest
Nathan, I wouldn't say Scotland is a good example - Rangers and Celtic dominate and have won the Premier League since 1984, and only have Union to compete with - unlike here where we have Football, AFL and Union. Don't think many people would like that sort of domination, whereas in Scotland it's a tradition.
Fez's are cool
Guest
How about just strengthening the NSW and Qld Cups to the point it is a two tiered second division comp, where each NRL side must have a NSW or QLD cup side, plus potential NRL sides, plus any other club strong enough? 1. Being reserve grade comps their player strength is boosted by NRL clubs, 2. Financially it might be supported by a small TV deal, reduced travelling costs (being mostly state based), NRL club support, 3. Have a "Superbowl" style conference winners shield decided on Grand Final day We currently have three tiers in the game: NRL ("national" first grade, although it has work to do in spreading the game), Toyota Cup (the NRL's version of college football, feeding the game juniors for the future supported by a TV deal), and NSW and QLD Cup (reserve grade comps, but have a tangled relationship with all sorts of parties). What is needed is just a clean up of the NSW & QLD cup comps. They are working on this, evidenced by Manly being kicked out of Sunshine Coast and Canberra out of South Brisbane. Its a bit of a mess, but it will eventually get there as a sort of "second grade" comp.