Eddie Jones' brilliance is in his own mind

Ha ha, I have a good mate who played hooker against Eddy for a few seasons and like to give him a clip or two (as was his style), he said Eddy always gave plenty back and they had a grudging respect of each other. Eddy can't coach though.

'The crapulent scrum was definitely his fault. He was national coach, and under him, we became the laughing stock of the scrum world.' It was his fault that the Australian franchises had crap scrums too? The Australian scrum was mediocre/poor prior to his tenure and mediocre/poor after his tenure. I doubt all the scrum training in the world would have improved Young and Baxter at that point. They were verging on the utterly disgraceful. Jones is an easy target. Deans has done less and copped so much less flak than him it is silly.

Hoy can you pass the hymn book back to me please?

Cheers CM No born in Cape Town, and left those shores in my twenties. Then the past 17 years in Oz, have "Oz-a-fied" me you might say. Probably Saffas come across as arrogant because they don't understand the Aussie sense of humour. It's the Australian way to challenge someone, to see how seriously they take themselves. Unfortunately most Saffas don't get that, and they immediatelly get fired up. You can even see it when reading the blogs and some of the Saffas responses. Also it helps that I am surrounded by an extended Australian family of about 20 cousins, neices and nephews, constantly taking the piss of me and and my accent.

A limited side still winning, and as I said, had every bit of silverware possible at that point. The crapulent scrum was definitely his fault. He was national coach, and under him, we became the laughing stock of the scrum world. It is well reported that he spent a massive 7 minutes at training for scrums, because that is all the time that scrums took in a game. I agree about the Reds, however when Mooney took over, not results wise, but play wise, the Reds came on in leaps and bounds I feel. Mooney laid the platform for McKenzie.

STILL,the truth is hard to find these days .when a man tells me what the truth is about rugby i wonder if im talking to fred allen or eric watson. trust me im giving you my opinion warts and all ,i refrain from pleading superior knowledge but clearly my intel is good.

Suzy, I think you're the first Safer I've taken a liking to at first contact ... presuming you're not just an online pseudo-Safer with a mission to persuade us all that your mob might have both a sense of humility and a sense of humour! :-)

I don't see how Jones is responsible for what's happened in the past five years. Was John Hart responsible for the difficulties that Wayne Smith and John Mitchell had trying to win back the Bledisloe? Why were Henry and White able to fix the mess that previous coaches left behind? Eddie's demise as Wallaby coach coincided with the All Blacks and Springboks being the best they'd been since 1997 and 1998 respectively and even then the Wallabies' results weren't as bad as they've been in recent times. People forget that the Wallabies very nearly won the 2004 Tri-Nations.

Cookee: no player is going to claim that Jones kept them in the team as he was too scared to change a winning formula. I believe that is exactly what he did. From what I saw at that time he was working hard to keep a job I didn't think he was fit to hold. Evidently his reports to the ARU were legendary with more stats and figures than you can poke your one eye out with.

Mother T you can't make a claim like this and just leave it hanging. If anyone had coached the Wallabies at that time this team would have gone just as well as Eddie's efforts. They had been inculcated with a belief and plan based on logic and facts from Rod McQueen. Not bloody statistics. I cannot imagine why you claim double standards here. Did the Wallabies enter a 9 year slide from 2001 until 2010 or not? Now if you argue that they were going well until Eddie left then you ain't watching rugby you are reading Greg Growden. Did he kill scrummaging or not? It is now accepted as fact that Eddie paid no attention to scrums and preferred the restart approach of league. As an ex hooker, this is hand your front rowers badge in on your way out the door stuff Some of my information comes from ex players and coaches, where does your claim for seeing the truth come from?

COOKEE ,true enough ,people see what they want to see.;double standards evident here.

STILL, "once in a lifetime players" so jones didnt drop them cos his ego was in the shade, deans drops cullen,mehrtens,umaga,----loses agst jones ,mckenzie etc and we have to revere him as gifted. wang eye better than one eye imho

The Wallabies were really on the tail end when Jones took over. Frankly, he took over what was a limited side, and yet he took them to a WC final. He did a great job with the South African backs, and he also did a good job with Saracens. You can always point to the Reds, but it's not like many other coaches achieved much with them prior to his sojourn there. I don't see how a crapulent scrum was his fault either. He simply didn't have the raw materials to work with, as was proven under Connolly who tried multiple alternatives to cease the tide. As an outsider I think this anti-Eddie business is just odd, especially when contrasted with the Deans lovefest.

I cannot comment on your opinion of Eddie 'cos it is quite unclear stillmissit. :) On stats - analysis and measurable proof has been a big part of my professional career. I have heard elsewhere Eddie overcooked that aspect alarmingly. A St George coach I played with years ago, David Waite, did the same. I'm astonished at the recounting now of yards run, tackles made and such. Does a cross field gallop count? What about running back to collect your missed catch? And the high fiving of a teammate's good tackle - surely that offers compassionate comfort, a self esteem rocket and psychological "assist" for the next three he makes and ought to be attributed? I ignore them because they are virtually meaningless - except for player managers who fax off their updated résumés within 5 minutes of the final whistle. Objective assessment of what the experienced eyes see, using the better-than-Hewlett-Packard on one's shoulders, trumps subliminal lateral gain line assist counts all day long. I'm not sure I've ever seen Alec Evans with a clipboard in his mitt, or Jack Gibson.

OJ, Cookie et at Guys you forget that this team that wang-eye sat on until they were dead, was made up of once in a lifetime players (almost). McQueen built it and then Jones just fed off the carcass. Opps! I think that is a mixed metaphor? He single handedly killed scrums as his little brain said that there was only 10mins in a game that involved scrummaging therefore QED why bother. At that time there were some good props running around Sydney that could not get a look in as he only wanted speed not scrummaging. His statistics killed off several players games by insisting on stats play only players would not take chances if they were going to cruel there stats. I think this is still going on to a lesser extent today. We stopped picking talent and turning the team over and became just like him, totally conservative and boring. NEVER HAD AN ORIGINAL IDEA IN HIS LIFE!

His Bledisloe Cup record is better than most Australian coaches. They would've lost it eventually even if Macqueen had stayed on.

Well said Stillmissit

"multiple Bledisloe victories"? He won the Bledisloe series 2-0 in 01, retained in 02 (1-1) and lost the cup (for the first time in 6 years) in 2003. Considering he inherited an established champion team, his Bledisloe record is not that impressive. Personally, I think Jones is a good technical judge of the game which seems to make for a good assitant but a fairly poor head coach. His work with both the Wallabies and Boks as an assistant has been very good, but when he's in charge his teams don't seem to show the same ability. Perhaps his man management and overall tactics aren't really up to scratch, perhaps he isn't a big picture kind of guy. Who knows, but it's not like he's the first guy who's been a good assistant but a comparative failure at head coach (I'm a Canes fan, and both Colin Cooper and Mark Hammett seem to fit into this pattern).

STILL,9 years in the wilderness. eddie at least made the rwc final;deans our saviour didnt.and wont the preferential treatment deans receives surely must be due to oneills selection;why else with such a poor record % would aust rugby perservere? ps;didnt oneill grant himself a decnt bonus for eddies 2003 rwc performance;ironic really.

People listen because the man has a very good record. He took over the Brumbies in 1998 and won the title in 2001. He coached the Wallabies to a Tri-Nations title and multiple Bledisloe victories. His Wallaby side made the final of the 2003 World Cup. He finished his wallaby coaching career with a better win/loss ratio than Deans has now and a win ratio of near 50% against the All Blacks. Who woud like to give me Dingo's success rate against the the team he really wants to coach ? Jones was instrumental in the 2007 World Cup victory of the Sprinboks according to Jake White. His failure at the Reds confirms that good coaches don't necessarily fit with different teams. This is something the ARU is still managing to ignore. I may not agree with everything the man has to say but I usually read it. He is more qualified than most to be asked for his opinion.