NRL's pay TV strength positions it growth

There is no desputing the current importance NRl has to Foxtel but there is also no desputing that the NRL need a pay provider to give them the opportunity to show lower rating time slots and games. FTV will not do this and be expected to pay anywhere near the money Foxtel would. This has been painfully clear to all codes over the last 3 rights deals. This whole - 'they will lose money because everyone in NSW and Queensland would end their subscriptions' is rubbish. There is absolutely NO CHANCE the NRL or Foxtel would not come to some sort of deal on televising games. To threaten otherwise is rediculous. What we are talking about is figures, value and negotiation latitiude. The AFL had more to offer Foxtel than simply current ratings, they had 5 more games plus the potential of millions of dollars annually in new subscribers. If the NRL want to get a similar deal then they have to offer something more than current ratings plain and simple.

Have to disagree with the opinion that the AFL has 'clout' when dealing with media networks because it is a 'national' sport. This antiquated picture is purely geographical and means diddly squat when it comes down to what really matters: number of viewers. FACT: The greater Sydney area has a greater population than Western Australia, South Australia and Tasmania put together. Add to this the the massive populations throughout the state of NSW, then lets add the entire state of Queensland and what the NRL have is the greater share of Australian viewers. Let's not forget the massive audience in New Zealand which are a part of the NRL. Let's also not forget the fact that league is played and watched internationally and the onselling of NRL games (rated as the premium product for the sport) to these countries is huge. THIS IS CLOUT.

SBF In reading your last post,I have established the following: 1) You have failed to dissprove the 3,000 rl registrations in WA,as provided by the governing bodies .The figure does not alter one iota. 2) As stated registered numbers apply to school comps also.This was not done by rl in the past,but by other codes,and they finally realised they should inlcude them. 3) The 3,000 figure mentioned, firstly you stated it is small in a population of 2 million,then you dispute the figues.A two way bet.One minute you accept it,the next do a john west and reject it. 4) develpment work in melbourne for rl has been going for 5 years ,not since the Storm started.Development for the AFL in Sydney ,has been going really since the start of the SL war,mid 95,16 years.The 1,862 figure was the end of 2009.the code has been visiting up to 40,000 school kids in Vic,with various programs and comps. A new club with a number of teams,the nW Wolves started up in Melbourne this year. 5)You failed to admit that duplications would also occur with AFL registrations,yet AD spruiks the total numbers. 6) As stated on another thread by a WA resident, one of their clubs has had such a demand for juniors,they had to establish two satellite clubs. 7) because the efforts on rl development are being concentrated in the primary schools more so than the high schools,just like in Vic. 8) I agree as the numbers are growing without an NRL team,having one will increase the base more so.

Yes, I was $200 mill shorter (only $100 mill shorter on a cash basis). The "experts" were $450 mill shorter.

Isn't it sad that more Rugby League supporters would rather sit at home on the lounge than go to a game and support their team,and how unappealing is it when you watch 80% of NRL games on tv and the crowd is that small that on some camera shots there is not a single person in view and thats in a 30 - 40,000 stadium in NRL heartland

How i am being pedantic, this is your quote ....... Crosscoder said "SBF. Look champ,go and do a body count if you wish, it is becoming tiresome .There are 3,000 KIDS registered to play rl in that state". All i have done is challenge your statement, and have proven it to be false, in all probabilty many of the kids playing the very small (both in schools and length of season) RL schools comp over here are the same kids playing on the weekend, and have most likely been doubly counted, actually no schools i know of here in Perth are in this schools comp, any links?. Yes, i agree many kids in the riverina play both AF and RL, and probably other football codes, and yes i agree that a new RL team in Perth will probably see a increase in junior registrations, but on the other hand it seems the Storm have not really produced much grass roots growth in Vic, if there is only 2,000 registered players ( according to you !)

SBF If you believe being pedantic is a point winner ,be my guest. The figure remains unchanged whether I call them kids for under6s to seniors,that is the way they are registered in toto. Past posts of mine on other threads have stated so. I have never split the numbers up into seniors and juniors .Call them kids,call it grassroots,it is still the total number,and the number does not change. On the matter of schools being included and duplication,let me just spell out a few little home truths to you. For many years the ARL did not include registrations of school players in their figures,despite them playing in school comps.The other codes particularly yours did so.The ARL's Geoff Carr pointed this out a few years back,and said if the others are being recognised for the inclusionof school rego numbers,then it is about time we do the same. Now seeing you are the Riverina expert,or so you tell us, many of the youth in say Wagga ,played both rl and AFL.Paul Kelly was one,Greg Brentnall another.IOW duplication in registrations for clubs,was happening decades ago. There are kids in Sydney who might play union or league for their school and play a different code for their club.One of the Hopoate boys is an example. Sheesh You were the one who brought up AFL playing numbers on a saturday not I ,whilst disputing the rugby league figures.So champ my bringing it up for Sydney was to draw an analogy, by referencing the Masters story,and to emphasise if it happened once before ,it could happen again.When you get an AFL fan, preaching on a rl thread,expect a rl fan to respond in like manner. We all know when the Reds disappeared the junior numbers dropped away.That is no secret ,never pretended otherwise. The point is in 2008 the registrations increased by 30% and in 2009 there were further increases and in 2010 the Affiliated States(includes WA) reported continued growth.It is in the State of theGame reports.For you sources mean zilch. Introduction via schools comps,is hardly new and is vital to introduce the game to new ones..Your mob believes so. Do you actually understand that 19 players have come from WA to play in the NRL East coast either at senior or junior level.From a very small ATM base. And I repeat having the Reds back in the NRL,will further boost the grassroots numbers, both and school and certainly club level.No a pleasant thought apparently for some.May give some locals an opportunity for which they are better suited,and derive more enjoyment.

SBF read my response above.all there in beautiful black and white.

SBF You have a dreadful habit of not reading my posts,the 3,000 was registered players,all in registered.Can't be any plainer than that.No matter how much you try and switch the meaning ,it doesn't allter the details. If you bother to check the ARL and NRL state of the game reports ,in 2008 the WA registrations rose 30%,there was a further increase in 2009,and Australiawide the numbers increased in 2010 .I suggest humbly,you write to the various admin organisations I have cited, and point out to them in your ever knowing manner,where they got it wrong. ""As per normal ' I brought AFL into it,because its relevant DOH, you quoted yourself AFL figures,because you claimed (an AFL man) not a union man,not a basketballer,not a cricketer the figures (intoto registrations) were false.You are trying to squirm your way out of it,because I happen to suggest perhaps look into your own backyard where figure at times are abused.The fact that it was 2008 is irrelevant to the point.The point was figure fudging occurred, and there is nothing to suggest it could not happen again. If up you don't want others to cite AFL,the don't mention it for starters.Mick H was correct.

"With over 3,000 registered players across school, junior and senior leagues, WA already has the third highest participation rate in Australia http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/12/07/3087377.htm You stated that there were 3,000 JUNIORS, which was clearly wrong, the above quote from your link states that their are 3,000 across SENIORS, juniors and SCHOOLS, kids that play on weekend probably also play for their school during the week, and are more than likely counted twice. As per normal you bring the AFL into it, and a link from 2008, ...... why.

yes it does because you are the one who brought up playing numbers in wa.when the reds were kicked out of the comp playing numbers dropped.if a team was readmitted numbers would increase again. sydney's afl junior numbers are pathetic and that is with an elite presence

because ten is under contract to

SBF As he bites his lip ,whilst he mows God's green earth; http:// www.waredsrugbyleague.com.au/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=122&Itemid=215 http://www.nrl.com/tabid/10874/newsid/60958/Default.aspx http:// www.silvertails.net/articles/news/40-general-nrl-/5279-west-would-still-go-wild-for-elite-league-says-geyer. Geyer played for the Reds.19 WA players havecome over to the east coast. http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/12/07/3087377.htm http://www.yellowempire.com.au/contents/events/current-events/world-sports-expo/our-exhibitors.htm?id=36 Just a little further info http://generationone.org.au/blog/2011/03/key-development-area. The reason it is brought up champ and I would have thought it is bleeding obvious,is because we have a guy from another code, who says the figures are wrong.Then on that basis I am quite within my rights as a contributor and taxpaper, as a consequence to dispute official figures supplied by his code.eg: to use a Roy reference. http://www.theage.com.au/news/news/news/how-the-afl-boosts-its-numbers-to-sell-its-game/2008/07/11/1215658140139.html One minute you get on board the good ship Roar,and comment 3,000 is a very ordinary number for 2million people (which I agree),the next minute the say the figures are false.What the !! As the VRL has now close to 2,000 registered players,and WA is a bigger state in terms of registered players,I cannot see a problem. You appear to have a genuine concern for the possibility of an NRL team being based in Perth,with the resultant increase in grassroots growth.A concern for any kind of NRl expansion into non rl states. Be happy,look at it as a job creation opportunity for numbers of Sandgropers . As the saying goes,if itThe Reds) happens once,it can happen again.It's only going to be a niche sport relax.

if monday night football was lost by fox and went to free to air i would drop fox 4 games a week on fta would satisfy me

i dropped fox but resubscribed with the introduction of monday night football

Crosscoder said "SBF. Look champ,go and do a body count if you wish, it is becoming tiresome .There are 3,000 kids registered to play rl in that state." It may be tiresome for you, but if you use the WARL website, and their fixtures key, there is no way on gods green earth that there is 3,000 juniors playing the game on weekends, maybe 1,000 at the most. How many kids playing RL in WA has nothing to with the AFL and the amount of juniors in Sydney, i fail to see why you continually bring this up.

Football Tragic. Reasonable question IMO. Apart from private investment.Just like the Titans I would suggest. WARL CEO stated 17/3/11 $4m worth of company sponsorship already committed on the table. And one of them is committed to an additional $2m in sponsorship to be the team's major sponsor. Had received state govt backing. Perth's Burswood Casino has also expressed interest.. McManis Bid Project mgr still noted" despite only having been able to sell "hopes and dreams"at this stage, the interest shown by the bid , by the business community made them believe the the club would be very profitable". We had a bit of a roadshow around some of the corporates of Perth,particularly the top end of town".If we are awarded a licence,we anticipate we could go close to being theHIGHEST SPONSOR EARNING NRL club in our first two years." Interesting that one man who has been touted as a potential backer is fortescue Metals Group boss Andrew Forrest whose interest in rl was evident in his attempt to have the All stars game played in Perth. You can throw in Holmes ä'Court who has been pushing for the games there. Add in income from ticket sales,add in the usual grants provided to all clubs by the NRL(part of the Tv deal).Average NRL crowds in Perth over the past few seasons around 15,000 The annual budget would be $15m.

SBF. Look champ,go and do a body count if you wish, it is becoming tiresome .There are 3,000 kids registered to play rl in that state.Just like we are given registered players in Sydney for AFL.The figures are from the WARL/NRL and other sources. I will rely on head body figures,rather than someone from another code with an obvious axe to grind. There is no local team in which to identify.If you have any idea about the Swans, who was interested in AFL in Sydney before their arrival.And that code had SFA before their arrival. Ask yourself why the Suns are getting traction now,after a team came on board. Forget about Dos in schools!!! ,this coming from an AFL man.Surely you jest.That is the very essence of that code's argument .If there was ever a code who could juggle the books.............LOL.

Even so....... Fairfax is just part of the media landscape.Has zilch to do with Tv rights, or sponsorship on Tv. Using the same argument NRL merchandise sales exceeded AFL by $15m in 2010.Means nought for Tv rights.Check the numbers on social media.Check the tally on sport media comment in Sydney.

So you were $200m out still, sounds like the Govt BER scheme all over.Closer but still out. Accordingly that means we are to rely on your credentials for rugby league,not knowing the comp make up,or the actual offerings involved,or to whom.Ignoring Pay TV ratings and FTA.Possible relocation or expansion.The inclusion of 3 instead on one FTA bidder,and a Pay TV company that is extra desperate to retain its current subscription base.Telstra content or Sky NZ interest. Like those AFL guys,who continually believe the admin, would have to financially prop up expansion teams, still unable to understand the requirements of the bid process.Stand on your own two feet is the deal.