The AFL expansion experiment

How much of an impact did the introduction of the West Coast Eagles (1987) and the Adelaide Crows (1991) have on their respective state comps (WAFL and SANFL) in their first year as far as crowd attendances is concerned?

SP NSW 'odd one out'? I think you will find that the states south and south west have a long history in supporting the code. NSW is a large and diverse state, certainly compared to WA, which is large but not so diverse demographically speaking. I have just returned from FNQ and the code continues to gain traction there however not enough to entertain an AFL presence. Townsville although growing rapidly, remains fervently NRL territory and would be a hard nut to crack. A top end composite brand could work - maybe? This would draw on the great talent pool of the NT and that states acknowledged support for the indigenous code, while being shared between the larger eastern seaboard demographics of Cairns and Townsville. I really hope we in Canberra are finally rewarded with a side, along with Tassie before anywhere else but I am not confident, given the treatment we have endure at the hands of the AFL over many years now. We live in hope.

I think shift North south (Tamania), shift Wests (bulldogs) North (Canberra) and introduce a 3rd Perth Team and a North Queensland/Northern Territory Team

http://www.ausstats.abs.gov.au/ausstats/subscriber.nsf/0/32F03D06DEBCFA06CA2579190013E303/$File/31010_mar%202011.pdf Interesting demographics, which suggest that WA will need another team, and Qld will need another team. Depending on how much traction Australian football gets in Sydney and above, the population is there already, but as we know NSW is the odd man out in this country, when it comes to supporting our native code.

Cattery The NQ Cowboys had 3 wooden spoons in there first 5 years and yet drew strong crowds by league standards so I see when you getting at I'm just annoyed of the mistreatment of Perth/Adelaide should of being catered to and handled better and show the same commitment the AFL showed to the Lions/Swans eventually in there darkest hours. I'm certain in a NRL style admin the Swans/Lions would of got killed off the early 90's just like the Reds/Rams however the AFL is smarter than that thankfully for there supporters.

There were some grim years there for the Swans, especially post-Edelsteen, the AFL had to step in and virtually rebuild the club from scratch. But two points there: 1. the Edelsteen years at least showed that the Swans could draw a big crowd; and 3. the Swans won something like 3 wooden spoons in a row, and in fact one season, won a solitary game, yet managed to draw 10k per game in their very darkest moment. In other words, the foundations were always there. You can imagine in any comp, win three wooden spoons in a row, have a season with a solitary win, and that club is going to be on the bring financially and in need of help. As for the Bears, yes, they were there a year before the Broncos, but they were initially established in the Gold Coast, despite the name, and anyway, Brisbane is a league town through and through.

I live in the northern suburbs of Perth, and i reckon within a generation (10 years) a new AFL team would do OK. As i stated above, the new team, to have a proper identity, would be best off basing itself around Rockingham/Mandurah, but including the fast growing rural towns, of Bunbury/Bussleton. The only other option is Joondalup, but i remember reading somewhere that Sorrento/Duncraig had the highest ratio of Eagles members of any suburb in Perth, so robbing Peter to pay Paul, although in 10 years time, the way Perth is growing Sorrento may well be considered a 'inner suburb' !. A small boutique stadium where Peel Thunder play (25K) would be good, IMO Perth/WA would stump up the crowds, sponsorship etc is another question, and of course finding the depth of talent is another question again. I might also add that people will just not relinquish their AFL club memberships, so many people are being denied the oppurtunity to see top class football, as the same people have renewed their Eagles membership for over 20 years, so their is plenty of merit in a new team from that perspective.

For those AFL insiders can you detail me on how badly the Swans/Lions finances & struggle was in the late 80's/early 90's because I been reading about there near deaths and bankruptcy yet the AFL stuck by them gave them help they did and they successfully creating niche spot in QLD/NSW. Now being an leaguie it annoys me how the ARL/News Ltd discarded the likes of Perth/Adelaide in 2 years I'm certain that the Brisbane Bears back in the day & Swans were suffering worst than the Reds/Rams in there respective states. 2 years is not enough for a team to be judged on there merits let alone have time to properly grow and integrate in the community I'm sure in the Bears 2nd year it was still in the establishment stage the same stage the Reds/Rams/Crushers were in it was unfair. I just wish the expanison teams in non-heartland areas were given the same care and treatment the AFL is treating there expanison teams, I have read it the past that the AFL commission did botch the Swans expanison move in some aspects leading to it's near death but they come up with solutions eg Plugger and rest is history. Intersting enough the Brisbane AFL team arrived before the Broncos in respects to AFL/NRL so the AFL got a year headstart with the Bears/Lions but once the Broncos come aboard the rest was history.

Perths population is split 50/50 geographically between North and South of the Swan river - About 825,000 in each half according to HBF Health Fund Stats. In theory Perth should have been split 50/50 as above between the two AFL clubs IF they had started together. But they didnt and there are now many areas of overlapping team support which includes of course families. Currently IMHO a third club is not viable and will be for many years - Let us say another generation at least. The big question is when it arrives where will they put their training base and home HQ. I would speculate at the new Burswood Stadium which will leave the Eagles somewhere in the northern suburbs with the pending demise of Patersons and the Dockers will be at Fremantle. For the interstate fans - The State Govt possibly intends to retain Patersons and knockdown the stands and keep the oval for lower levels footy. The State opposition wanted the new ground next to Patersons and further delayed, but Premier Barnett has said the new Burswood stadium planning will be completed and initial contracts signed by the time of the next election in late 2012???.

Yep, thats the way i see it, but who knows.

North QLD and WA would be great. North Qld would really expand the AFL community and Cairns is very receptive to AFL. WA is booming with the mines and the population is growing fast. North Melbourne to move to Tassie ?

Nth QLD, and WA. Victorian team will move to Tassie.

Demetriou has stated that he wants a 20 team competition. Where will the last two teams come from ? Hobart, Launceston, Perth, Darwin, Canberra, Ballarat, Cairns ? Personally I think Canberra and Tasmania.

Big difference between Mandurah and Bunbury. 100km to be precise. You couldn't have a team representing both areas, they're too far apart. Joondalup has it's merits, but that's as deep in Eagles territory as you can get. But in any case, we're talking many, many years down the track.

Basically that is the area that i meant, from around Mandurah/ Rockingham down, although that area could really considered to be Dockers territory. Boutique stadium where Peel Thunder now play, similar to the GC Suns metricon stadium, the new stadium to host some derby's maybe !!. I have to say though, that Joondalup council have actually begun planning for a AFL team based in the northern suburbs.

Bunbury doesn't have remotely close to the population now and still won't have in 10 years. Mandurah/Rockingham is a possibility given there are about 200k now (and growing extremely fast) and will be able to play some home games at the new stadium (if it ever gets built).

Ironically the Bears were at their strongest point in 1996, with their highest ever ladder position and highest average crowds.

3rd team is/will be needed in WA, many people dont even try to get to the footy in Perth. Demographics are proving it to be correct as well. 2 options, Mandurah/Bunbury or Joondalup, IMO it will be down south at Bunbury, about 5 to 10 years away.

How come expansion is an "Experiment" . There is nothing experimental about growing your business or sport. A dictionary definition of experiment = Test or Trial. The word does not apply to the AFL expansion- It is a serious venture. New Laws of the game are trialled etc. The AFL has been given a window of opportunity to establish GWS before the NRL and FFA get more active in the area with more funding and a new club respectively. AFL NSW boss Tom Harley nailed it with his 5 year plan from 2010 for GWS.