The GC Suns were championed but GWS will be despised

Football - I mean soccer

For around the last 100 odd years there has been a stalemate in the battle between AFL and Rugby league to inflitrate each others "territory". The original code of a region tended to have a concentrated the fan base which acted like a natural "barrier to entry" for any other game. Both AFL and NRL have only been able to capture a significant number of the other code's fan base by throwing in heaps money. Expanding the fan base into new areas runs the risk of alienating this existing fan base. I suspect eventually all codes will suffer from a dilution of fan support to the point were football in all its forms will become less significant.

This isn't really part of the topic but, now that both Queensland and New South Wales have 2 Australian Football Teams, and both the newcomers have been working endlessly to invest in the sport in their respective zoned area's. it leaves me wondering why the Sydney Swans and the Brisbane Lions arent doing their bit in their respective areas? Im almost certain that Gold Coast have from North of the Sunshine Coast to Cape York and the Gold Coast area into northern NSW and Brisane have The rest and Sydney have Eastern Sydney, huntervalley (Central Coast, Newcastle) and north and GWS have Southern NSW, ACT and Western NSW. GWS are doing a enormous amount in their area and im guessing Gold Coast are aswell, why arent Brisbane and Sydney?

In fact simple activities such as kick-to-kick have been put forward has a means of getting parents and their kids more active: http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/07/08/1089000288503.html?from=storylhs "We will also encourage parents and children to burn calories through traditional activities such as kick-to-kick." The Giants will act as a further catalyst of this noble objective.

Sean My personal view, from much experience in consorting with my Northern compatriots, is that generally speaking, there is a marked difference in the standard of kicking North of Holbrook as to be found South of Holbrook. Interestingly, I was only just reading up on that great Southern past time of kick-to-kick in Wikipedia, and you have been referenced as providing a contrary view, arguing that rugby people have always played a form of kick-to-kick - this is a radical departure from commonly held beliefs. Unfortunatley, the link to the article that is referenced, I think called "kick-to-kick", no longer works, which is a pity, as I very much would have liked to have read it. Perhaps you can provide a new link if the article is still in circulation - I would appreciate that very much.

Sydney is not struggling, the fact is, that what a club makes, it will spend, a couple of years ago the Swans made a million dollar profit, and ploughed it back into upgrade of player facilities, the Swans probably struggle to make a profit, but do not struggle to exist, there is a very big difference. Clubs that are still in existence after 150 years still struggle to make a profit, but year after year they front up and compete ........ thats what football clubs do from auskick to the AFL. The AFL have Docklands up their sleeve, the AFL will own that eventually and the money from that will be used to help clubs make ends meet, but it is not a golden bullet, the struggle is half the journey.

Sydney is struggling to sustain one team let alone two. Melbourne has about 4-5 teams out of 9 that can balance their books without AFL assistance. Port is a basket case. The Lions have also taken a hit. But hey, let's spend the money that could be used to shore up what we have on something that may possibly have a payoff in a couple decades.

We can only see how your grand projections (which appear to be stated as fact!!) stack up in time I guess...

Disagree. Quickest and surest way to put bums on seats is by winning. Gold Coast will get better and better and will challenge for finals in 3 years and a flag in 5. Big test for them will be after they drop off say in 10 years time.

Its not true that Sydney people follow AFL more now than in the 80s & 90s. AFL is declining in Sydney for the Swans and has been for years. Swans Avge attendance 1997 = 35,818 Swans Avge attendance 2011 = 26,615 Which is a 40% drop. There's a lot of hype going up about AFL in Sydney, but the reality is that the poularity of AFL in Sydney continues to fall and GWS will suffer a similar fate to the Swans. The drop in TV ratings for AFL in Sydney is just as bad.

AFL are throwing $400M at GWS and AFL in Sydney, so GWS is not going to go belly up - its a matter of restricting the losses as much as they can. The extra money they got from their media deal for having another team in Sydney is well and truly gone, but the Melbourne AFL punters keep spending their hard earned on AFL to pro pup the interstate teams bleeding money (and a couple of Melbourne teams too).

Australian football just gets better and better and the A-League is back on its way up again and the Socceroos doing so well too. Yes. Australian football has a big future.

Of course there are plenty of opportunities for kids to play sport and it doesn't have to be AFL. Another AFL team in Sydney isn't going to cure Australia's child obesity problem. Its about the AFL trying to dominate the Australian sporting landscape and run everyone else out of town by paying money to schools, councils and governments to get children to play AFL instead of any other sport. It was always about the money and getting a bigger media deal.

AFL is the only sport that is fun for kids to play? Which sport has more registered kids playing across Australia than the other 3 codes combined?

stabpass Sorry, but I agree with Simmo philosophically anyway. I can't vouch for his motives but I will give him the benefit of the doubt and put code allegiances aside to this end. I don't wish to speculate as to whether GWS will be a failure or not but truth be told, I wouldn't be at all disappointed to see them or GC fail. I am only interested in the ethical intent or lack thereof and I really am committed to finding out if any such virtues remain relevant in the psychology of the sporting public today. The thing is, this mode of operandum is not exclusive to the AFL by any means and as I have often stated the Force in Perth, Storm and Rebels in Melbourne to name a few, have been manufactured under a similar premise. For respective codes to make distinctions in taking the high moral ground is splitting hairs in this respect. The GWS region has offered NO voice (and you must surely know that), to be afforded a slice of in the AFL pie, whereas Tassie has been campaigning and with compelling footy cred and ped to back it up, to be acknowledged by the governing body for far too long now. The ACT and NT have also been overtly proactive in lobbying for AFL membership for decades and rightly so. This is only about the almighty dollar which is driven by a television induced code cold war that dominates a dangerously saturated Australian footy market. Call it an evangelical crusade if you must; whichever way you spin it, this is not in the best interest of the games true believers but in the interest of the bankers. What distresses me is that the true believers appear to have been insidiously super seeded by a generation of prosaic bankers, which has led to an exterior of razzle dazzle and a dire lack of cultural, historical and moral marrow in elite sport today, It's all there to for the taking - if the price is right.

i agree with this, have to say though, that i have never been keen on Sheedy, and for what it's worth Mark Wiilliams either, but i have a feeling that WS will warm much more to Williams.

The Giants have a easier path than the Swans...much better support in terms of finances and player concessions, and they have an established cross town rival for two derby games out of their 9 games Sydney metro games....and more of the Sydney public now follow aussie rules than when the Swans came up in the 1980s... it's still a massive challenge but there's a lot to like about their chances...I think the Giants will carve out a following comparable to NRL teams in the region or maybe even get to the Swans level...and you'd expect RL to still be number one overall in Western Sydney for generations to come..

Yes, it has nothing to do with the huge pool of people in a relatively small area, in this country, that do not have a AFL team represent them, it has nothing to do with the amount of sponsorship that is/may be available, it has nothing to do with the fact that a city the size of Sydney should be able to sustain 2 AFL clubs, it has nothing to do with the fact that the Swans really represent the Eastern and norther suburbs of Sydney. You are right, it is just all idealogical and evengelical reasoning for this team, that is how the AFL is by far the biggest sporting org in this country, because they undertake descisions on ideological or evangelical reasoning, not solid data and practical reasoning. It is also a pretty telling that there are so many people who follow RL, that foam at the mouth when GWS is mentioned, and many live no-where near Western Sydney either.

TBH the real commercial value of GWS is that it is the 18th team which allows a 9th match per round. The franchise could really have been allocated anywhere in Australia for that benefit. Why they chose Sydney smacks more of ideological or evangelical reasoning; spreading the gospel so to speak. There's less demand for an AFL team in Sydney than Canberra (proved by GWS foundation memberships) or Tasmania (as demonstrated by the Tasmanian campaign for an AFL club which no Sydney people ever put together). It's a pretty telling point to remember that on every forum that discusses the purpose of GWS, the strongest proponents are AFL fans who live nowhere near NSW.

So if there is no passion, no fans, why have they signed up 12,100 foundation members, and why have they got AFAIK a full sponsorship book, and why are so many people looking forward to seeing them play. Are you saying this is all fake/spin ?. GWS will have around 25,000 members in a couple of years, ......... no passion !!, no fans!!, there is no doubt they will cap their membership at the showgrounds.