There has been a lot of discussion of the merits of the AFL’s expansion into Sydney’s west – rugby league’s heartland. Many have quoted participation rates, memberships and TV ratings as justification of their particular position.
Maybe we’re all looking at the wrong indicators. Looking recently at those statistics got me thinking to when I was a boy growing up in Manly playing Australian Rules.
The lighthearted and at times quite nasty criticism that I copped from followers of mainly rugby league but also rugby union made me at times question why I decided to play and why they were so against me playing.
Surprisingly, after a couple of years, those same kids played a couple of games for my school in the state knockout! So for me the real statistic that matters is when boys who come from a league or union background decide to play: deciding to play the game in spite of their peers and committing to playing in the hope that maybe one day they may get a career playing AFL.
We all know the story of Keiran Jack making that decision. But recently others like Brandon Jack, Jack Barrett and Ned Mortimer have done the same.
The pressure for those boys to play the same sport as their fathers and family must be enormous; how some must look at them at times with a sense of betrayal and confusion.
Yet their families all seem to give the same support, commitment and encouragement. It’s a lot to give up; the honor of playing for the same club as your father, representing your state and possibly your country.
Why do they do it? For me it’s the initiatives the AFL has put in place over the last decade.
The Auskick program, which puts a presence at grassroots level throughout Australia, the academies of both the Swans and GWS that give them the ability to learn at a higher level.
The AFL NSW scholarship program, which gives a kids a pathway into the AFL system, the rookie list, allows a player to learn and develop into an AFL player whilst in the AFL system, and lastly the work and endeavor of Jack and co that prove that it can be done.
Another reason maybe that both rugby codes have large numbers of players of Polynesian descent.
These boys generally are larger and have greater muscle mass at an earlier age, which makes it harder to compete in a sport where speed and endurance count less than brute power and strength.
With 18 positions on the field there are more positions for kids with the smaller body types to play a role.
Even if the defection of Folau and Hunt to Aussie Rules means more boys of Polynesian descent take up the game, we won’t see islander boys dominate the AFL draft like it has come to dominate both rugby codes’ recruitments, as it will always be a game that requires more than two body types.
In any event, although we have only heard of a few boys with rugby backgrounds making the switch and not enough to declare it a trend, it does lead us to ask is it the start of a trend.
Only time will tell but we are safe in the knowledge that the potential for growth in Sydney is there.
Jaredsbro
Roar Guru
As far as analogies go maybe it's a stretch, but it seems to me that Australian Football's strength is its cross-sectional appeal a bit like a Catholic-style service, which is the most popular denomination within wider Christendom by some way. So is the AFL within Australia...even where much of the populace have turned on the code (Western Sydney say) the elites are more likely to be believers, such as the prestige afforded the National Cathedral and its congregation in the United States or Kevin Rudd as an Australian example.
piesman2011
Guest
NSW having 7 players and VIC having 1 player in 1 test match in my opinion without doing the statistics would probabaly just be an outlier on what would normally be a much more balanced (population wise) team. Like I said if you did the statistics over 100 test matchs this would give you a much better indication of the NSW compared to VIC representation. Im not saying your theory isnt correct, what I am saying is that looking at one test match is not the way to do it.
Jaceman
Guest
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imanol_Harinordoquy was the french No 8 I was thinking of - only 6'3" but mobile and 105kg
The Cattery
Roar Guru
Jaceman It's unclear what Pantellas' contribution was all about. I mean, what was the point of coming on here and swearing black and blue that one of the all time great Wallabies was as big as Sandilands, when he was nowhere near - inviting arguments about things that don't need to be argued about. As for Shane Crawford - what's his point? That Cadel Evans would beat him in a bike ride, or Ian Thorpe would beat him in a swim, even now - yeh, I think we kinda knew that. Although I'm reminded that a full two years after retirement, Shane Crawford undertook that Adelaide to Melbourne run, 780 km in 12 days, raising $400,000 for cancer research. If Pantellas wants to big note himself (as many AFL haters try and do on this forum) - perhaps he should have a go at matching what Crawf did, I repeat, two years after he retired. Or maybe he can invite his Little Athletics club buddies to do something similar if they all think they're so great.
Jaceman
Guest
Crawf may have said he was a great athlete but he may have been using it in the American sense whereas in Australia we have used till we were americanised to mean he would be good in track atletics...
Jaceman
Guest
PS Funny one of those amateur Gaelic football players David carney was Great britains RL player of the series in international series of 2003. Somehow he qualified for GB which must have been a surprise to his irish mates and the Irish separatists of the last century and then he played RL for ireland showing the loose international NRL qualification rules aplly in the Northern Hemisphere as well...
Jaceman
Guest
Panatellas Andreas becker. I follow RU and couldnt imagine a less likely athlete (too harsh) hes a rugby second rower with no pretensions at anything else. He is reasonbaly mobile. The better RU athlete would be the French No 8 who is tall mobile, can jump by himself and was a star at the RWC. I'm too lazy to look him up but his father disgraced himself recently... A better athlete tham Mumford for example its out of season so i'm struggling to remember athletic ruckman...
JVGO
Guest
Wow Piesman, everyone gets so upset. And I wasn't even going to comment on this thread but I didn't want to let Tony down. he was so looking forward to me commenting. By the way what was your explanation why NSW has 7 in the cricket team and Victoria 1? Somehow in all that it wasn't quite clear.
Fitzy
Guest
Good for you, I hope you feel better now you've got that off your chest. If you dont like AFL than why are you on an AFL thread, I couldn't care less what some person believes in O/S, Aaron Sandilands plays AFL is a lot taller than all the people you refered to. My point is you have several different body types in AFL, unless your a front row forward you tend to be a lot smaller than in NRL/RU. But they all have large muscle mass when compared to AFL. They play for 45 min halfs where scrums, place kicks line outs etc which comes off the clock and is not added to time on. AFL is 4 quarters of 20 min but every stoppage is counted as time on and added to the time which means they play on average 28-30 min qtrs. they have to run further than Rugby, soccer and RL players during a match, they have to have the foot skills of a soccer player, hand skills of a basketballer and the tackling ability of a rugby player. What you speak off just dosn't compare (i bet you've never even tried the game!), so before you start trying to tell us that we should be following some sth american playing in spain think again. AFL is better!
The Cattery
Roar Guru
That's all great - but you said that Eales is as big as Sandilands - and he's nowhere near it - and anyway, what's the point of trying to make out that he is as big as Sandilands? What's the point? No one knows Geelong outside of Australia - but they are known in Australia - that's the important bit. It's that sort of awareness that gives rise to $1.25 billion in broadcasting rights and 650,000 members. If you want to make a big deal about doing little Athletics - that's great - you have my full support (although I'd prefer that a bit less of my taxes went to sports that Australians don't give a damn about).
piesman2011
Roar Rookie
JVGO, Delude yourself all you want by saying otherwise, but satire is a form of ridicule or mockery (again ridicule). I assume your a RL fan and that you have gotten your recent understanding of satire from the daily telegraph. Even if you are using satire to mock or ridicule AFL or their supporters (I dont believe that what you are using is satire, it just seams like an angry poorly informed rant to me). It is my prerogative if I want to respond to your attempt at satire. To say to take something satirical at face value is in fact ridiculous, is ridiculous. Because satire is a form of insult it deserves a response, if it is facturally incorrect. Anyway I will leave it at that, good luck with your future rants.
JVGO
Guest
I'm afraid that definition doesn't say that satire and ridicule are the same thing Piesman, you should read it again maybe.
panatellas
Guest
I'm not not a fan of NRL but I'm a sports fan. Andreas Becker is 207 cm tall and an incredible athlete as he proved for Western Province in South Africa and fo the Springboks rugby team. John Eales played in two World Cup winning Rugby sides (one as as captain) and ran, jumped, kicked goals and is considered today one of the greatest athletes in the world. Aaron Sandilands is a no-name outside of the southern states of Australia. John Eales is a member of the Laureaus Committee, which determines annually the greatest sports team of the year. Barcelona FC, the Japanese Women's Football Team, the All Blacks World Cup winning team and the Queensland Reds Rugby team, which won last year's Super 15 team, are the finalists. Don't worry Geelong weren't nominated. Nobody outside of Australia has ever heard of them.
woodsman
Guest
PS, None of the AFL players that played the series in 2011 would be described accurately as either the cream of the AFL's crop nor earning $1mil/year- the majority were rookie-listed players earning between 50K and 100K. That given, it was a pretty disgraceful effort, but with Brad Green captaining the side and acting like an absolute tool on-field, a blow-out was just desserts.
stabpass
Guest
Dont think Jamal has the body shape Australian football is looking for ! . https://www.facebook.com/pages/I-know-how-to-defend-LOL-jk-Im-Jamal-Idris/120304111343156?sk=wall&filter=12#!/media/set/?set=a.148493085190925.26299.120304111343156&type=1
piesman2011
Roar Rookie
JVGO (sorry if this is not in the right spot this site wont let me add this under your last post) I dont think you understand the term satire. To go on a rant about something is not satire and from what I have seen of your work it is a continual rant about AFL taking away talent from sport. maybe you are not serious which means you are a troll, but this is not satire Satire is the mocking of something foolish. For example the mocking of your bad stats (see my original post about 4 up). To use bad stats to mock something else leaves you open to satire and is not an example of satire, due to your foolishness in the use of said stats. When you say satire is not ridicule you are wrong. Satire is a form of ridicule and therefore is ridicule. Or at least ridicule of a folly is one form of satire. Satire :the use of irony, sarcasm, ridicule, or the like, in exposing, denouncing, or deriding vice, folly, http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/satire
Jaceman
Guest
True but the WC is played intermittently (whenever they feel like it) and in the 90s the tests in England when they last had the Ashes (again borrowed from cricket) were often 1all going into a decider. http://www.rugbyleagueproject.org/competitions/test-series/summary.html Also the fallacy when they called themselves Great Britain when if they were lucky they had an ex Welsh RU player in their team from outside England. Or that they rarely had neutral refs because the other countries were so weak the refs werent up to scratch or the losing team (England) could blame the Aussie referee. Its a sham. The 3rd rated team in the world has played 3 times in Sydney in the last 20 years.
JVGO
Guest
I'm afraid satire and ridicule are different things, Piesman. But to take something satirical at face value is in fact ridiculous.
piesman2011
Roar Rookie
JVGO, I was the one ridiculing you. I guess with your response it worked. You see the difference between your comments and my comments were that yours were foolish (1 game used as statistically evidence) and therefore open to satire. Mine were not (being accurate).
Tony
Guest
"The problem with AFL followers..." Here is another generalization: "the problem with NRL followers is that they dislike Aussie Rules so much they can't help making negative comments"