According to all the major news organisations, a battle is about to begin in the Western Suburbs of Sydney.
A Lord of the Rings type battle, where one group of people peacefully ply their trade in the one location for hundreds of years, and another group of people from a faraway land desiring world domination attempt to take over.
Words such as “turf war” have been bandied around, and already many shots have been fired. No one’s been killed yet, but it’s anticipated that soon somebody will be.
It is that serious that grown men are warning their peaceful counterparts that a monster is arriving, it claims to be nice and friendly, but in actual fact it’s not. It’s a monster that wants to brainwash our children with smiley faces and destroy their futures.
This pretty much sums up the sensationalism created with the arrival of the GWS Giants. The AFL is here to take over and unless the NRL does something then one hundred years of tradition will be thrown out the window.
In some circles, the view is that the NRL mightn’t even bother to fight the AFL because it won’t win, the AFL is superior in every way.
Western Sydney is a very big area. It stretches out from Parramatta, to Penrith, down to Bankstown and even Campbelltown is regarded as a part of Western Sydney. I’ve lived in Parramatta my entire life and I’ve never even been to Campbelltown.
Approximately two million people live in this area, with many different cultures, religions and languages making up Western Sydney. It’s such a large area that the NRL boasts four fairly successful clubs: The Eels, Bulldogs, Tigers and Panthers.
Apart from St. George, the Eels, Bulldogs and Tigers probably generate the most interest in terms of crowds and viewership in Sydney across all codes, and the Panthers now have Phil Gould working away at his ‘mini revolution’ at the foot of the mountains.
The rivalry between the Eels and Bulldogs for example is huge; their clashes have for the last few years attracted crowds in excess of 30,000 and television audiences of 5-600,000. They even attracted 75,000 to a preliminary final a few years ago. 30,000 maybe nothing in comparison to AFL crowds but by Sydney standards are pretty decent.
The rivalry and tribalism between the four Western Sydney clubs is something the AFL will never have in Sydney, it just doesn’t have the numbers. Over time the GWS Giants will build a pretty decent rivalry with the Swans but it won’t match that of the four Western Sydney Rugby teams.
It’s also important to remember that Rugby League is not the same competition it was five to ten years ago. It’s grown significantly in crowds, membership and television ratings. It is aware of the fact that it needs to start doing more to continue its growth.
Will I be supporting the Giants? No. My club is the Sydney Swans and has been since mid-2005, when I saw the Swans beat the Bombers on a Saturday night and fell in love with Australian Rules football. Let’s not kid ourselves and think that people can’t follow both, I follow both almost equally.
But let’s not talk about the drawing up of battle lines and boundaries because if the AFL knew what was good for it, it doesn’t want to appear as a threat to Rugby League. We Western Sydneysiders are very parochial and tribal about our football clubs and anything that threatens them, we’ll turn against.
The Giants can carve out their own niche, because as I said, people can follow both codes. GWS has two very good coaches in Kevin Sheedy and his trusty sidekick Mark Williams who have five premierships and nine grand finals between them.
Their team includes Graeme Allen, Stephen Silvagni and good facilities. The AFL has given them every opportunity to connect with the community and grow its brand.
The clubs choice of using Blacktown as its training venue is an interesting one. If any GWS player reads this article please don’t ever walk around Blacktown after eight o’clock. I think after a few weeks of training there you’ll understand why.
GWS has a boutique sized stadium at Homebush, Skoda Stadium (The Sydney Showground) which is a fantastic ground. However Homebush is an hour away for those living in Penrith, and it’s not going to be easy enticing people from out there. Sydney is notoriously difficult to get around, no matter what part of the city you live in.
The poaching of Israel Folau is an interesting one. I understood the Suns going after Karmichael Hunt, everybody in Queensland loved him. Hunt played for the Broncos and Queensland, and was very good at it.
Israel Folau on the other hand isn’t the most popular figure in Western Sydney; he’s caused us too much heartache to love him. Folau played for the Melbourne Storm, Brisbane and Queensland…No one likes them out in the suburbs!
It isn’t like I’m hoping that the Giants fail, in fact I hope they do well!
But let’s be realistic and understand that the paranoia from Rugby League circles is unnecessary and the chest beating from certain sections of the AFL is also unnecessary.
For example, when Phil Gould described the AFL as a monster that was working towards generational change attempting to wipe out Rugby League, I wondered if Phil had any confidence in the Rugby League game itself? It is an amazing game that creates many highlights across many platforms.
Consider players such as Ben Barba, Jarryd Hayne and Benji Marshall. Haven’t they excited many a Western Sydney crowd?
On the other side of debate, I remember when Dermott Brereton said that the NRL can’t take on the AFL and win because the AFL was too well-resourced. I thought Dermott clearly has no idea what the Western Sydney sporting culture is based on and is ignorant of what Rugby League has already built in Western Sydney.
The Giants will struggle at times and succeed at others. There’ll be a full house when they play the Bombers at Skoda for the first time, but when they play Port Adelaide or North Melbourne the crowds will drop. No need to death-ride the club when its down and say that its failed, and no need to talk it up and say that the AFL is taking over in Western Sydney when it attracts a decent crowd.
I thought Tim Sheens summed it up beautifully when he talked about the fact that the Tigers and Swans won premierships in the same year. The attention and focus both clubs received was huge and because one was successful, it didn’t detract from the success of the other.
So go the Swans and go The Eels!
Let’s get the footy back, no matter where it’s played and no matter who plays.
As long as we’ve got the footy.
JVGO
Guest
Ok JVGO. Mods here. AR isn't an alias for clipper et al. He's just like-minded. Righto? Admire your tenacity! Thanks, Roar Mods.
Australian Rules
Guest
"But when I talk about psychological warfare I am talking specifically about your conduct Australian Rules and that of your multiple pseudonyms which appear to include It’s called football, it’s called soccer, Tony, Fitzy, Clipper, Asutralian Rules, and John among others I’m sure..." Seems like your paranoia is getting the better of you mate. I write under one name only. "Psychological warfare"...??? Seriously.
JVGO
Guest
My point of view is that sport is something that has a cultural value whereas most people analyse it through an economic growth model. Since I view it as cultural I think it's value should be preserved rather than grown. I think the economic growth model is relatively new in sport, and over the last 25 years has replaced the community based participation model of sport as part of community culture. In the cultural sphere it is frowned upon to denigrate or threaten others culture, in order to preserve the real value of your own culture you in fact need to respect others culture. In capitalism the destruction of ones competitors is encouraged, unless there is an oligopoly or a duopoly like Coles adn Woolworths who are content not to destroy each other while they are busy obliterating all their minor competitors.
Jaredsbro
Roar Guru
I'd love to know how you picked up on these supposed split-personalities JVGO? Not baiting you, just interested where your argument has its salt?
The Cattery
Roar Guru
JVGO as real as you and I
Jaredsbro
Roar Guru
JVGO. I think I might be starting to get your position? It interests me that some of the stuff you're talking about is similar to Missouri Compromise-like logic. You may not have thought about it in this way (it helps to have done American history at University ;) ), but since last year I've been thinking about the similarities in the code wars situation to the situation leading up to the American Civil War.
Jaredsbro
Roar Guru
I'd have to say you're on drugs...from a first 'look' at you and the posts you've made :P What's so wrong about people who want to support both NRL and AFL as equally as they possibly can do. You can hold the position that GWS is about feel-good...but I'd say from where I stand its about giving the AFL just a little bit more credibility in a market which frankly didn't seem to care until all that recently.
Jaredsbro
Roar Guru
Maybe but after all Rugby League is different from the AFL attendances phenomena. I actually think RL will always be lower personally...the trick is to realise that and make the most of it ;)
JVGO
Guest
Well, on my part I am not an advocate of NRL expansion at all, other than as some sort of strategic counterbalance to AFL expansion and expansion in other sports, although if it happens in an appropriate manner I wouldn't object to it. My point of view is that of preserving the traditional fabric of Sydney sports which has a long heritage and which in fact includes Australian Rules football. But when I talk about psychological warfare I am talking specifically about your conduct Australian Rules and that of your multiple pseudonyms which appear to include It's called football, it's called soccer, Tony, Fitzy, Clipper, Asutralian Rules, and John among others I'm sure, and the way you use them to target posters who mount arguments that aren't absolutely pro AFL like Crosscoder, Oikee, and myself. Anyone who wants to look back through the multiple threads that these posters interact will see pretty clearly the way it has been orchestrated, it is quite obvious. So when you ask me to take a step back and take a deep breath I would suggest that you might first step back from these sort of tactics AR because I will continue to call you out on them. Simple as that.
Australian Rules
Guest
Wow. Take a deep breath JV... Most people (myself included) think that the NRL going into Perth is a logical step...a sensible move for the league. Not "aggressive expansion" or "merely a form of propaganda". ...you see the double standard..? If you think this is "psychological warfare"...representing one of "the worst periods in history", you really need to take a step back..and try to relax.
JVGO
Guest
It's called football/Austrralian Rules/etc/etc has very little understanding of Sydney geography CC. None of him do.
Crosscoder
Roar Guru
It's called football. I live in an area in Sydney which has the largest number of soccer juniors.Rugby league juniors continue to grow in that area,making it one of the biggest rl areas in Sydney.the area The Sutherland shire. Rugby league and soccer in NSW have co existed and thrive at junior level,ever since I was in extra short pants and before i could shave.I played soccer at primary school and enjoyed it. Kids get to a certain age and will continue with soccer or try rugby league or union,as the parents consider they are big and ugly enough for contact sports.That does not prevent many youngsters playing rl from u6 up.
JVGO
Guest
For I think the 3rd time AR as I said earlier; ‘Some codes get bigger like the AFL, some go broke like the NBL, some have clubs who go broke like the A-League where a clubs licence has been removed after one season of competition from AFL in its region, some codes desperately cling to a futile dream of domination like RU. Some sports get trolled like RL. Some sports watch their participation rates decline like cricket. I guess this is what the writer actually mean by coexistence but is unwilling to analyse..’ To obscure the reality beneath platitudes of coexistence etc in reference to an aggressive expansion like GWS is merely a form of propaganda aimed mainly at making your fellow travellers feel better about themselves whilst they are asked to back the replacement other peoples cultural values with their own. I am merely pointing out that the reality is that there will be winners and losers in this process, to say anything else is simply a lie. The AFL in fact stands to be the biggest loser of all if its vast propaganda and marketing coup fails. But thanks AR for introducing me to some of the tacfics of psychological warfare. It's quite fascinating what you are doing. And I'm beginning to see much more clearly how some of the worst periods in history have managed to play themselves out.
NF
Guest
'Moderators have ignored the content.This sort of thing would not last in a AFL or ru thread.' Absolutely CC the moderation on league threads compare to the other codes is pathetic too bad David Gallop didn't know that when he was writing his article the treatment us leaguies get on this site.
Australian Rules
Guest
This seige mentality is just bizarre... The author has underscored the strength of the NRL in Western Sydney. He's stated that the AFL will NOT overtake NRL as the number 1 sport in the region. How can a person feel attacked by that?! JVGO, you respond with: "The very idea of coexistence is a furphy John"... That is just conspiracy theory nonsense. I know you love to promote AFL as the angel of death for all sports in Australia but come on...co-existence a furphy??!! Do the Broncos, Lions, Bulls and Roar co-exist in Brisbane? Or the Eagles, Dockers, Force and Glory in Perth? Do the Storm, Rebels, Victory, Heart, AFL teams, NBL team etc etc etc co-exist in Melb? There is simply no basis for this tired argument...and no, this is not an empty motherhood statement. It's just the truth.
me, I like football
Guest
just replying to Pauls ignorant comments
Nathan of Perth
Guest
I can live with that. Far better conversationalist for that matter.
JVGO
Guest
Well having faced an array of fictional AFL epiphanists each remarkably like yourself John I’d say that your appraisal of RL in WS is way too dispassionate formulated and manicured to convince me that ‘nobody loves RL the way you do’. I’d have to say the way you announce yourself, the manner of your self justification, the way you characterise and express yourself is formularised in a way that is virtually indistinguishable from these other posters and feels to me not just like a deja vu, but an absolute ground hog day.. I’d suggest therfore that we aren’t dealing with Marcel Proust or James Joyce here but rather some internet jock intent on just repeating the same unconvincing trick over and over, again and again. I have a very clear idea in fact who we are dealing with as the poster clearly displays a proprietorial attitude over these articles, as he did here before his post was mysteriously deleted. The point is that the only people who in any way believe or are convinced by the sentiments professed in this article are posters on the AFL side like Cattery (who needs to feell he is on the side of light and right), or Redb (who needs to be on the side of fight and might). This is because the purpose of propaganda is largely to convince your own side rather than the opposition, as it is in fact their money that is being spent and whose support you rely on, and those that are being targeted on the other side are in no doubt at all about the reality of the situation. The purpose of a classic piece of propaganda like this is to convince the AFL supporters that all they are after is their rights, that any objection is unjustified and that they are therefore actually a morally superior civilising force, hence they are justified in attempting to impose their will even though they are completely unwanted. This is how propaganda works. I'd say that whoever wrote the article, (perhaps someone approximating yourself) has a very sophisticated idea of what they are doing. Just look at the way the AFL dog pack have self righteously leapt allover this thread.
Ian Whitchurch
Guest
Qgirl, Absolutely. I'd also be linking the Qld and NSW Cup to the NRL by playing the reserves sides of the NRL clubs in them - the model is the NEAFL, rather than 'affiliated clubs' that see players played out of position and what not. Padding out clinic staff with local comp players is workable, but I think you'd need the players the kids see on television to get the excitement factor going. The problem is, as always, money. Money that goes the the lower layers of the code isnt making NRL club executives lives easier by coming as a lump sum to help with player payments and so on, and so they are more likely to be demanding it goes to them so they can "avoid losing players to competing codes", and so on.
Crosscoder
Roar Guru
Reality check It appears this article that should perhaps not have been entered in the rugby league tab,has achieved the following: 1) A code war .And I came close to being sucked in. 2) Hijacked by AFL people in droves,with few posts being subject specific. 3)Moderators have ignored the content.This sort of thing would not last in a AFL or ru thread.