Escaping ACL group stage is the measure of success

I must say that I really rather liked the ref and ARs from the Adelaide-Gamba game. Good presentation, good positioning, was pretty on the ball through the game. Seemed to man-manage quite well, didn't let himself get swayed by theatrics.

Wonderful and inspiring article, thank you for the link :) very much enjoyed reading that.

Nathan of Perth I know you're a qualified ref - and thought you'd enjoy this wonderful article. It's so lengthy that the website actually recommends: "This is a feature-length piece, so you may wish to print off for the journey home or some such." Enjoy - I know I did. Ref: http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2012/mar/22/forgotten-story-abraham-klein-referee?CMP=twt_gu

It's also funny with Stojkovic, because as the commentator's pointed out during the match, he himself was also throwing up his arms in the air and complaining about decisions after he already pointed out Arnold's behavior lol

The worst diving that you've ever seen? o_o You've obviously never seen the Italian national team play! The last I saw them was against New Zealand in 2010, they were beyond disgraceful. To be honest I never noticed any diving in the game except for that one free kick that lead to that goal, it's really frustrating when that happens but where was the Mariners defence? Mariners played really well and deserved to win the match, group is wide open with everyone on 2 points! I'm really excited about this ACL campaign, it's the first time in history where I've felt that we have the best clubs in Australia representing us. Adelaide are playing out of their skins at the moment and have proven themselves to be the Aussie kings of Asia! I still can't help but wonder how much better our teams would be if Simon, Griffiths, McKay, Barbourses, Solorzano and Flores were still at their respective teams :( Andyroo's link above is quite interesting, A few quotes: "His opposite number, outspoken Serbian legend Dragan Stojkovic, said while the draw was "not bad" he felt the Mariners could have played "a little better". "Let's be honest, they're the A-League leader, they won't be a bad team," he mused. "[But] they play the ball backwards too much." "The referee and his assistants were given an angry reception from the crowd at half-time, following their lead from Arnold, who was rarely seated as he furiously protested a string of poor decisions from Hong Kong referee Kwok Man Liu. Stojkovic enquired to a nearby television crew: "Why is he always like this?" Arnold's fury, however, was entirely justified."

I make a point of not criticising referees since I know its a really difficult task but I would have dearly, dearly loved to have seen the referee assessor's sheets on that match. Some of that first-half diving was just head-spinning. Didn't seem to happen in the second, wonder if words were exchanged. The header that CCM scored on, and the cross that led to it, were both beautiful.

Funny old game, bureaucracy...

All great crowds for mid-week matches.

12k for Brisbane's opening ACL game is pretty good, but MVFC's first ACL campaign drew huge crowds and great results. Support for the competition waned in our 2nd & 3rd ACL campaigns. Let's see how Brisbane fans & team handle the remaining home matches; and, then, we'll have to wait several years to see how Brisbane fans & team handles 3 ACL campaigns. Here are the crowds for MVFC's first ACL campaign in 2008 - all games in the ACL are mid-week: 1. MVFC 2-0 Chunnnam Dragons: 23,656 2. MVFC 3-4 Gamba Osaka: 23,857 * Gamba scored the winner in the 90' after MVFC led 1-0, went behind 1-2 then took the lead again 3-2 3. MVFC 3-1 Chonburi: 9,558 * for a dead rubber MVFC finished 2nd in the Group behind Gamba Osaka, who went on to win be Asian Champions that year. Let's see how Brisbane's first ACL campaign progresses - so far, Brisbane has been spectacularly unsuccessful and, on current form, will finish 3rd in the Group.

In any case, I fail to see what's wrong with "constant navel-gazing and blind obsession with bettering our East Asian rivals". Is there anything wrong with a blind obsession with beating the Poms at cricket, for example? The growing rivally with our East Asian counterparts, at club level and internationl, is one of the best things about being in Asia.

Well, bettering our Asian rivals is the whole idea isnt it?

I think 12,000 Brisbane Roar fans who braved a fair amount of rain, for a mid-week clash with Tokyo are taking the ACL fairly seriously. The fact that Ange also rested a couple of key players from a crucial HAL match ahead of the Roar ACL clash with Beijing also shows a certain amount seriousness. Since the first A-League teams competed in the ACL, I have certainly watched on with a certain amount of envy, and am loving the fact that Brisbane is in the mix this year. I couldn't care less how serious other clubs or countries take the competition. If we take the competition seriously, others will follow. I'd certainly love to see an ACL trophy in the Roar cabinet, or the cabinet of any Aussie team for that matter. I also can't help but think MV's poor showing has something to do with the fans perception of the competition. I'm pretty certain that with a bit of success, they'd be crowing fairly loudly about it. I'm not putting down Melbourne's past achievements domestically, but the ACL has consistenlty shown up the short falls of the MV team. MV has singularly failed to grow and adapt to the challenges of being good enough for the ACL, while teams like Roar and CCM obviusly have stepped up a level, and rightly see the ACL as a true tesing ground both for themsleves individually, and the HAL as a whole. It's still early days, but I don't really care if the teams progress through or not (well maybe I do care just a little). The Oz teams this year are performing creditably. It shows a definite improvement in the standard of the HAL, and regardless of the results, I for one am loving it.

Mike The simulation diving at last night game was I think the worst I have ever seen..... what is your understanding of what the AFC is doing about it...

It's only China that gets more fans to ACL games than regular season games. That seems a measurable fact, J, A and K league fans have all voted with their bums that they prefer their own domestic leagues.

Pohang seem to be going pretty ordinary this year. Seongnam probably are in it to win it now because they have started poorly (still blending a lot of new players in) and like Gamba the coach doesn't want to lose in any competition lest it get him sacked. Ulsan are by far Koreas best chance unless Seongnam get through to the knockout, start playing well in the league but find themselves in the second bracket in the K league (bottom 8 after 30 rounds) and only have the ACL worth playing for. I'm guessing Sebastian Hassett's article (http://www.smh.com.au/sport/football/mariners-hold-their-own-against-asian-giants-20120321-1vkj7.html) might rile up our Japanese based Roarers. "THIS was meant to be the ultimate mismatch: the cashed-up Japanese contenders with ambitions of continental domination against a team from the sleepy central coast which struggles to pay its debts." Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/sport/football/mariners-hold-their-own-against-asian-giants-20120321-1vkj7.html#ixzz1pnRXGQv7 In our defence I think that the competition hasn't completely captured the hearts of Australia and journalists use any hook or means to try and make the stories grab more readers. What I would be interested in is the general style of J league teams and the impact of coaches. Most of them in the ACL seem pro active. In Korea it seems the opposite. 15 of the 16 coaches are Korean and even highly credentialed coaches like Huh at Incheon who was in charge of Korea at the 2010 world cup play really negative stuff. Jeonbuk started with one isolated striker against Reysol. Seoul play some nice stuff and should be in the ACL next year but Suwon have a great team and are scoring goals but it comes from brute force in player quality rather than any sort of fluency.

From what I've been reading of late, J-League clubs would be glad not to make the second round of ACL to concentrate on the domestic league. Can't say the same for K-League teams. I would say that A-League teams are somewhere in between: Brisbane and Central Coast certainly would be finding the ACL a distraction to gain the Premieres plate (and automatic qualification for the next ACL) but at the same time, wanting to do well in ACL. Arnold has certainly been annoyed at the scheduling as the competition heats up for the Premieres race - wonder how different his stance would be if he had already sown up the Premiership? A sign of things to come for Australia? We may end up taking a more Japanese stance than Korean although I think culturally we will want to strive to do well and win the ACL overall as well as take out the Premiership/Championship double but we will find that and ACL committments a hard nut to crack. For Adelaide the ACL is a breath of fresh air: it's a new season with everything to play for and it is showing. It's early days for A-League teams but it is a promising start. Of the three I think Brisbane are at the most risk of not qualifying for the second round but as I said early days. Good result against Beijing although they did have their chances. Very good games so far.

Correct. TRANI LUCIANO is listed by the AFC as Adelaide's coach.

As a footballing nation we don't rate ourselves and never have why? I remember most of the press when the Champs Lge draw came out they automatically took their normal role of playing our chances down or finding some obscure club in Uzbekistan who they knew would pose a major hurdle for any A League club . Most H.A.L. clubs have either drawn away or won, though home form could be better most people should have noticed the pattern so far that most clubs have struggled to win at home I think it's going to be tuff but if some clubs don't qualify out of the group stage it could well be down to goal aggregate that stops us and not being overpowered by technique or an interlectual desire to win . Central Coast should have won last night we dominated goal scoring opportunities throughout the match but Nagoya looked keen on the point .

Yes, you're right, it didn't help that Ernie didn't take it seriously. In relation to crowd numbers, although I watch all MVFC ACL games, I do not often attend the match, especially when it's on a week night. Why? I simply can't get to all the games due to other commitments. But that doesn't mean I don't take it seriously, and it also doesn't mean I don't watch the games on TV ;)

"What makes you think HAL clubs take the ACL any more seriously than J-League clubs?" Maybe since ACL makes headline news in Australian football and matches are broadcast live here? But in Japan, matches are usually delayed broadcast and barely make the national sporting news? "By contrast – from afar – it appears that J-League, K-League & CSL fans take the ACL much more seriously than HAL fans." Of course! Judging by the huge crowds they get in Korea and Japan! "It was good to see Aussie, Josh Kennedy, did not join his Japanese team mates in these cynical acts of cheating." It was good to see that last night, but again you've only watched Kennedy at Nagoya during the few ACL matches. Not during the 34 regular season games in Japan ;) "Ernie Merrick often fielded 2nd team players in the ACL and made it clear in interviews that the HAL was his priority" But Pixy bluntly told the national media ACL was always 2nd priority. Heck, last season the president at Kashima Antlers publicly admitted after the Cup final he was partly unhappy victory came the price of ACL qualification.