We're not on death row, say NRL Titans

No .I know exactly from whence you are coming.Track record!!!! Then I suggest clipper if you can't stomach official stats from a code,all codes official stats can be taken as doubful.I will indeed keep that in mind for future reference .. We can of course suggest the Tahs crowds are inflated then?? Well attendances as at 8/3 were up 10% and television viewing at record levels,and that is not only provided by SL stats.Unless you can prove the figures are to the contrary,you are as the saying goes ,grasping at straws. It is all well and good to say the figures are BS,but unless you can back that statement.Well you know. . To achieve any sort of crowd increase knowing the economy the way it is,is hardly something to deride. And of course the Sky figures must be pie in the Sky. the poor old messenger,he must be full of bullet holes by now.

AR. The Warriors are a team in a ru stronghold.Got it? I will spell it out .If Tinkler has had enough,the club reverts to either private ownership or back to a community based one.If you remember rightly the club existed before Tinkler arrived on the scene.They now have a new stand and that has added to the crowds who attend.Know your Knights history since the joined. There is no iron clad guarantee for survival for any club in any code,years down the line.No one can predict the future.Have a 30s type depression and see how many survive. Hello!! Souths according to Piggins would have survived in some form ,and judging by their membership numbers they will continue to do so. You have a hard job in handling the fact,that teams like Cronulla have survived to date with monetary problems and a SL war.They are at last reports a community club. I am as well as the NRL are fully aware of the membership importance,and the membership numbers have shown another big increase this year.The clubs are hardly sitting on their backsides doing nothing FFS. Gate receipts and memberships as you should well know are part of the mix.Without the Tv contract monies the AFL would not be able to splurge like they have done on the GC and GWS.To suggest otherwise defies logic.Without the tV monies even your code would have to belt tighten. BTW it is not a case of hoping as every man and his dog has admitted in the Tv industry ,rugby league will reeceive a big increase.Gyngell said so,Leckie,even Delaney of Foxtel. Tv ratings last year and to date have only reinforced that view. Even ch9 is finnally getting the message to show the NRL in Victoria on their FTA HD network. Bad argument the 3.5m are not in the Nthn states ,the majority, overwhelming so,follow the rectangular codes and that includes also international matches.Sorry to shoot down your angle. Silly comment.The NRL via the Titans pay rental monies,the Titans when they initially made profits contributed tax monies,the fans visiting the GC contribute tourist dollars.Even the GC united pays rental.. You have not one iota of a clue the Titans were getting average crowds around the 20,000 mark,when they were going well,until the problems with the COE surfaced.There position on the ladder in 2011 and this year?? . The stupidity of the COE and tradesmen not being paid etc created a bitter taste and compounded the issue ,in effect affecting some of their own fans involved in the trades. Paul Broughton the chairman of the Titans resigned because he did not know of some of the workings that were going on behind the scenes.He stated the Titans were profitable on the football side,and he is not the only one.Why the hell do you think other consoortia want to buy in. The Titans did not receive establishment support from the NRL from day one,like the Suns. To say the NRL contributes nothing in Queensland and in that area,shows you know little of the work that goes on with their one Community work.Sometimes you guys from the other code ,need to do a little homework.Rugby league as whole contribute a hell of a lot to the Qld economy.It defies belief that you can;t see it.

Cricket is played there in the winter months ???? ,no just one code.Other codes in fact do exist in this fair city and are indeed quite popular. That is fine to provide funds for that stadium,but that stadium is not the only one in Sydney that needs facility updates. State govts has been aware of the lack of decent facilities for rectangular fields in Sydney for yonks,instead the Carr govt built walking tracks and I am still trying to figure out what other infrastructure projects. And recent govts complaiin there is no money ,but can find $85m.You gotta love pollies.Creatures of convenience and political expediency.

CC First, the game at Mt Smart shows that the Warriors CAN have a large weekly supporter base. They, with their billionaire owner, should be more like the Broncos. Second, you didn't answer what would happen to the club if Tinkler decided he'd had enough. Just sell to the next mining billionaire? How many are there? Third, if fans don't control the club (i.e. own it) there is NO GUARANTEE for survival. Are you seriously using the Bunnies as your example? There was marching in the streets, crisis meetings and the club eventually got booted out for 2 years before it was rescued by a benevolent fan. Is that really the way forward?!! Fourth, hoping for greater handouts from the next tv deal does NOT "ensure continuity". Gate receipts and memberships do. Fifth, the AFL contributes to stadiums - the NRL does not. Moreover, Aussie Rules Footy is played on cricket grounds (which are probably the most significantly historic grounds across Australia), meaning state governments want to update them and look after them. Sixth, approx 3.5M more people per year attend AFL matches than NRL matches, so the state governments will always look after the majority. Seventh, I'm not sure why you're citing the utility of Skilled Park. It's been an unmitigated disaster for all teams that play there. Why? Because the NRL contributes nothing...why should those clubs get a free ride? Because the QLD govt is nice? Being rectangular doesn't magically make it work. That'll do.

Crosscoder, you have missed my point. Good luck to them introducing cut price season tickets, most other codes do it with varying degrees of success. My point was that they had cut priced tickets and still only managed to pull in 11,000 punters. And suggesting I read a report from superleague.co.uk about the how well the game is doing is akin to reading a report from the tobacco lobby about the health benefits of smoking!

I didn't know the SCG was being upgraded soley for the AFL - I thought Cricket was going to benefit as well.

Ian, My long answer was lost but Qld Govt for Cairns games, WA govt for 3rd perth team, definitely the Tas govt to subsidise a Tas team at the next TV rights deal to mention a few. Why would the AFL upset a new Qld govt by undercutting the Robina deal - not a good idea...

clipper. Whilst it is hard going for the Bulls ,like the Titans they will remain in place,in whatever guise .The RFL who have made 8 years of continuous profits(despite your deathriding) will ensure they don't fold. I suggest one reads:- http://www.superleague.co.uk/article/record-numbers-switching-on/24528 Oh dear !!! cut price season tickets ,how dare theyintroduce such an initiative , when the economy is in deep trouble.No other code on this planet has ticket deals or season ones for that matter.Fair crack of the sauce bottle ,you gotta laugh.Maybe they should do something similar for the Tahs.

AR If you are going to cite a one off game at Eden park and use that as a criterera ,the facts suggest otherwise with the crowds at mt Smart Stadium. And the Storm are a stand alone team selling a unique product in a hostile environment.Bad example champ. i am not arguing against membership based clubs.The ideal situation would be to have all clubs like Collingwood.It won't happen.All I have done is shown examples where situations exist in both community and privately owned clubs,that get into the financial mess at times.Port Adelaide is not the only club that needs financial assiatnce at times FFS. The Knights haven't really commenced under Tinkler!!!.You do realise his involvement with the Jets.You do realise he has not to my knowledge using the Knights as guarantors for any outlandish development proposals. I will tell you what happens ,the Knights with their large supporter base ditto souths together with the new increased grants that will ensue from the next Tv deal,will ensure continuity.If Cronulla is able to do it,without the debt of the leagues club(which it currently has) then these clubs with far bigger membership bases will. Then one may ask why should new AFL clubs gets huge largesse such as a state govt contribution of $85m to the SCG and to Skoda,when other RL clubs who have been contributing huge tax monies to state and fed govts for decades and get SFA of late toward their stadiums. .And to state the NRL clubs have contributed nothing is out and out BS.The sharks is one example that sticks out likes d..balls.How much of that govt money to teh SCG has come out of poker machine revenue for starters? The stadium on the GC can and is used for three codes of football,not just rugby league.The Titans are paying rent to the state govt,so the govt is getting a nice earner.Rectangular fields can be used by a multitude of sports.Lang Park is used by Broncos/Reds and Roar.Full utilisation. You can have all ther Foo Fighters in the world,but if the team is playing like chumps they will lose fans.It happens.

p.Tah, I bet there would be many a Football club in the UK that would like to be in 'financial difficulty' to the tune of 1 million pounds, instead of the heavy burdens they carry. That said this sentence sums up the state of league in the UK 'They are currently enjoying crowds of 11,000 but that is on the back of cut-price season tickets.'

The Bradford Bulls are also in financial difficulty http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyleague/article-2120963/Bradford-Bulls-brink-unless-fans-raise-1million.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

Interesting points. But you didn't mention that the Warriors got 37k to their opening game. NZ might be "union mad" but the Warriors are a stand-alone team selling a unique product to Auckland and the rest of the country. They essentially have no competition. By arguing against members-based ownership, you cite Porrt Adelaide. Ok...but you don't mention Collingwood, Essendon, WCE, Adelaide, Hawthorn, Sydney, Carlton, Geelong etc etce tc and all the other clubs which are independent and successful due to being member-owned. You just picked the weak one at the lowest point in its history (both on field and off). Also, the Knights haven't really commenced yet under Tinkler. He's got lots of cash and has spent up but if things turn sour for him in the mines, what happens to the club? Or what if Rusty loses interest in his beloved Bunnies? The point there is, only member-based clubs provide LONG-term security. In private ownership you are completely at the whim of one fan. Re stadiums...I didn't infer that AFL pay the total bill...but they stump up significant amounts of cash. No other code in Australia does this. The Qld govt paid the entire $160M for Skilled Park. Why should the Titans or GCU get handouts from them? By the AFL paying for management rights and assisting with development, it enables fledgling clubs like the GC to make money early...not just thru gates, but thru branding and other events. They made a killing from the 30k that attended the Foo Fighters concert at Metricon for eg.

Everything Oikee says I would have to support - philisophically speaking!

AR The Warriors have to compete in a union mad country,and they are privately owned.Andf it is not a cinch to get 30,000 at a Warrior's game BTW.You stated private ownership is the problem ,I just gave you a couple of examples where it is not,and i will throw in the Knights and Rabbitohs and to a lesser degree Manly.. If you are of the view that all community clubs are profitable ,then I cite examples in both NRL and AFL where they simply are not ,and require head office funding/grants to exist.So better governance is not the rule ask Port Adelaide and other clubs that live hand to mouth.To suggest otherewise as the examples show is pure claptrap. The interesting thing to further note,these privately owned clubs are pouring money into jnr development,taking the pressure (albeit limited) off head office. Memo the AFL are pouring tens of millions of dollars to prop up GC and GWS for the next 10 years.So community clubs do need assistance not only in new areas but established ones. . I am fully aware of the limited funding the code ,put into the new stadiums,to be used by one winter code.. The AFL does not stump up the cash for the new stadiums ,they in fact pay a nominal amount to secure mgt rights(and that is a smart move).Big difference.How much did Metricon cost not $10m,obviously the Qld govt came up with the rest.,and there is no iron clad guarantee, that everything in the garden will be rosy for the code there,private or community club,once the funding stops.. And I can assure you the Sydney NRL clubs would love to get similar grants that the GWS received to improve their stadiums.Clubs have also chipped in over the years to improve facilities ,with little state and fed govt support. Depends where you sit at the stadium.The general complaint from many Titans fans ,are the costs of seating and the lack of parking go figureI i suggest those fans would be in a better position to comment than you or I. From, memory going back a couple of year I paid more than $27 for my ticket,admittedly between the 1/4 lines and half way.. Palmer and Searle are the exception rather than the rule.If Searle hadn't decided to get involved in being the next Meriton Holdings,the club would be making a profit yearly.Proving the private ownership does work on the GC.He knows the area ,played football in teh area.What he didn't get,was the downturn in the building industry and other associated financial issues. I understand as we debate a group of high profle SEQ businessmen are in the throes of a due diligence of the COE and the Titans football club with a view of taking over,with Searle shown exit side door A.

It's only worth as much as someone is willing to pay for it. Who would want to buy it? Is it even convertible to offices or for some other use?

Jaceman, Explain to me again why, right now, the AFL needs State governments to help them out. I see a code in control of its own grounds, and planning for it's own media outlet. That said, the negotiations regarding Metricon are, mostly, a bluff. The idea is to get a more realistic rental for their existing ground, which will be a rather empty white elephant if both GCU and the Titans die. Given how weak and gutless conservative governments are in Australia regarding vested interests, I'd say a backdown and a new contract is close to a certainty.

Yes CC, but the Broncos have the massive advantage of being the only club in a League city of 2 million people. They have free reign and don't have to compete with 9 other clubs (like your beloved Sharks do). Getting 30k a game should be a cinch for the Broncs. Ditto for the Warriors. What the AFL does is actually stump up the cash for new stadiums. They chipped in $10M for Metricon and the Suns were given management rights to run the place...meaning gate-takings for games and other events like concerts, feed back into the club. Focussing on members is also critical...when members own the clubs, you get better governance and if you don't, you vote to change the Board. Palmer and Searle are shining examples of what is wrong with teh private ownership model. Also, it's nonsense that ticket prices to games are too high. Titans games are $27 for Adults which is comparable with the cost of any other live sporting event in Australia.

No doubt they would be upset .But any bailout would have to be a short term loan.A bailout is not going to happen IMO. a new entity will arise from the ashes ,unless Searle can get all his fires under financial control independently of the NRL. The club should have received esablishment monies in the first place to get the club on a firm footing,just as they are doing with the Storm.

AR the Broncos are privately owned and they seem to be doing more than OK.As are the NZ Warriors.Private ownership can and does work.Its when the owner egos take over ,you have a problem. And has been shown even community based clubs,can fall on hard times:Sharks,Port Adelaide. Not every stadium in every code is filled to capacity week in week out.The Titan's crowds prior to the disastrous performing 2011 year,were well up the scale. I was there when the Titans played a semi with near 27,000 on hand.the pricing is too high,the govt rental is too high. Do not become complacent,the Suns had their inaugural year with decent crowds.It is maintaining them in an area that is on the tourist strip,and has major economic woe,that will be the big test. The admin can only pump money also for X number of years,and then it is up to the club. The only saving grace pointed out by real estate and financial guru.Economies such as the GC have their boom and busts.Currently the bust is still prevailing,but the high rise cranes will reappear and people will flock back and live and play there ,as they have done since the 60s. .

To be fair Maximus it is still a world cup,with govt support,local council and community support,and is being televised to a number of countries.All teams that play are genuine IOW have their own comps.I don't know why you get the idea they are not genuine.Perhaps competitive might be a better descritpion.This is not RLWC 2000. Oikeé's point was simply to show the US are represented in the WC this time,and rugby league is now shown in the US on the soccer channel on Fox. Both GC and Rocky shoul have nRL teams,so i disagree with Oikee,not for the first time BTW.