NRL must not ditch suburban grounds

AR, Sharks have pulled one crowd over 20,000 this year which was 500 less than the Swans pulled that week so it is conceivable that they will outdraw the Swans sometime this year. I don't believe half the SCG is missing, I think the capacity is still 35,000+. Also I don't see what the difference is AR between AFL fans obnoxiously pointing out the crowds that the code pulls on a RL thread and a NSWmen indicating how vastly superior we are in providing the basis of Australia's international sporting teams. It's merely tit for tat as far as I can see. Melbourne people are good at turning up to AFL games, NSW people are good at providing the overwhelming basis of our international reputation. As an AFL fan I can tell you are extremely proud of these facts.

As you would well know, half the Swans' stadium is missing due to the SCG redevelopment...but 23k isn't a disaster. That said, given the Sharks have averaged 10k, 12k and, so far this year, 15k...it would be dismal indeed if they outdrew the Swans by teh end of this year.

AR, so the Swans averaged 27,000 last year and this year have had three games between 20-23,000 before they had even lost a game? That looks like about a 20% decrease to me. Maybe the rest of those 1.2 million Sydney fans have found better things to do with their time. I hope theur season doesn't go too pear shaped or sometime this season the humble hapless Sharks might outdraw the AFL's Sydney flagship, maybe even in the finals. How dismal would that be?

Thought it was pretty clear AR.Due to the wide geographic spread of sydney and places like the Shire and Manly and Penrith,being kms away from the city centre and each other,the tribal and therefore local following has become ingrained.Ie they watch in numbers their team locally. I know a stack of Sharks fans who work on that basis. Ergo I am trying to spell out the tribalism.I defy you to suggest I am less committed financially or emotionally to my club,attend local games( not away) than any Collingwood supporter.Passion can be measured many ways,away games is not the only test. I as a rl fan, who has my loyalty questioned by a follower of another code,who has the audacity to suggest the fans mindset is so and so,and therefore is capable of change.The arrogance is atypical of some of the news hounds we have around and the likes of AD and Sheedy And QED that is the reason I brought in the commentator's question to Folau again this arrogance which rears its ugly head..After all as you continue to say it is a sport site..It's called an aside,and we get it all the time. If a Gould had done something similar you guys would have jumped on him loudly here.Should a rl journo or commentato do likewise, they are pilloried ,if an AFL commentator the cry goes up they are nuffies ignore them.Comedy at its very best. ..The thread is about suburban grounds,we give the facts as rl supporters and AFL supporters come here(one in particular) telling rl fans the real situation.As a result rl fans then are not going to sit back. You naturally don't know me from a bar of soap,nor my friends ,relos, and other fans who follow the Sharks.I can only speak from experience living here for decades. Just a I would never try to gauge the attitudes of any AFL club on an AFL thread .In fact I am not that obsessive to spend time there ,if at all. .However it doesnt take a demographer to know,Melbourne is more centralised than Sydney,has a far better transport and parking set up,has not had a SL war and has always had a tradition of big crowds and it is not really made for TV.. NB Sydney crowds for all codes will never approach AFL crowds in the Southern and Western states,Sydney outlying clubs fans will not congregate to a centralised venue,that is the picture plain and simple.Your code doesn't have suburban grounds except one And you go on about mindsets as though we are incapable of rational thought.Beggars belief.. I repeat and that is why the code will secure a big Tv deal,the fact it is the best adapted to that medium..'

that is an inaccurate description of SHark Park. it has good ammentities for games and is perfectly sufficient

you seem to know an awful lot about rugby league supporters. RL crowds at most sydney games are fine. stop comparing them to AFL games which have great numbers on a global scale. SHark Park is a great ground and playing a side with zero supporters in sydney makes for a decent crowd of 16k

Your dad sounds like a very wise man. Pass on my regards to him and indicate that I understand just how he feels PBB

I don't live in Melbourne, so I'm not sure what ur on about. This is a sports site. You actually could have had some credibility by saying, "yep, the crowds in Sydney, for such a big city, one that claims to be the home of rugby, league & soccer in Australia, are pretty poor. Sometimes we can't even sell all our Origin tickets." Instead, you embarrassingly waffle on about the other joys of Sydney, as though it's the only place in Australia with a beach or a boat. That whole passage was about as enlightening as your favourite trick of listing all the best sportsmen to emerge from your state...I was waiting for the list to appear... Ever been to Qld? WA? SA? NT? Tas? You froth on as though Sydney's the only place you can enjoy the outdoor life in Australia. Thanks for your latest offering. Comedy as always! Btw...the Swans averaged 27k in 2011, not 20-23k.

I am well into my 30s. Not exactly young. You are like my dad. Will never goto a game at Suncorp. In spite of the ease. Ok, well maybe I could get him out this year later or next. Need to "strike" at the right moment :) I am under no circumstances blaming you - the person - rather than the text here. I think you should support the game however you like, and if it means you are less inclined because of any decision made, then that is sad for you. I think the game should continue to try and include as many people as possible and feasible, and that should be the first priority. If you had ever sat In westafallen stadion or Suncorp even, you could quite possibly change your mind though. Of course I am in a process of trying to change the mind of another person too

AR dismal isn't an adjective usually associated with Sydney. But in order to satisfy your morbid obsession with the Harbour City and all it represents AR you should perhaps understand that people choose to live in the Cronulla, Manly and Penrith Blue Mountains districts, despite their relative isolation, because they are surrounded by Beaches, waterways, National parks and abundant beautiful bushland. The fact is that on the weekend, after perhaps commuting for work all week, they are loathe to leave these beautiful districts and instead choose to enjoy the environs. Remember AR that Sydney enjoys the best summer lifestyle in the world while Melbourne swelters and longs for the return of the footy season. Even last week AR the temperature in Sydney was 25 degrees and the water was still almost 20 degrees and swimmable I guess this is a little mysterious to someone accustomed to the dismal environs and suburbs of Melbourne which people seem ever eager to escape to the refuge of a big concrete bowl whenever a football team they are somehow vaguely associated decides to perform there. .Nevertheless in terms of comparative crowds if Cronulla as a battler club without a major sponsor and continually under threat of being booted out of the comp can manage crowds between15-21,000 which you call dismal, how exactly would you describe the Swans crowds who as premiership frontrunners and according to the AFL a purported 1.2 million fans average 20- 23,000 crowds. Maybe the bar is just higher in Sydney AR and if our sporting crowds in Sydney can be described by Victorians as dismal pretty much everything else to do with Melbourne can easily be described as dismal by a Sydneysider. In the end there is a balance that makes sense there somewhere, but only of course if you recognise that there may be more to life than AFL footy..

Not sure what you mean by: "And it still doesn’t sink in with the tribal nature of the code in Sydney.IOW more people are devoted to watching their clubs locally,than away"... "Tribal"...? "Devoted to watching their clubs"..? The whole point of this debate is about the lack of "triblism" from Sydney people and their teams. Clearly, they're anything but "devoted"...especially if they refuse to leave their own nest. As for the Folau comment, why on earth would I bother responding to what some nuffy boundary rider said to a player? It was a ridiculous question...and you're deflecting. What's that got to do with Sydney having dismal crowds?

Never suggested 10-14,000 was a good crowd.But on a Mothers Day in the Shire getting close to 15,000,with Melbourne bringing their relos,the club was more than happy,bearing in mind 13,000 needed for break even.So a profitable day with SFA freebies. .' And it still doesn't sink in with the tribal nature of the code in Sydney.IOW more people are devoted to watching their clubs locally,than away,and less people are prepared to watch away regardless if it is their club or not. Understand a little of the Sydney traffic ,roads and geography and poor public transport to even get an idea. And with resect to people staying at home viewing, that reflects in the TV ratings,that reflects in the TV ratings for the various clubs and that will reflect in the next big TV deal,which you are so concerned, may end up much higher than you predicted. BTW .AR you did not comment on the AFL commentator's question to Folau.

Waratahs v Bulls was the only sports event in Sydney on Friday night. 17,000 in rugby heartand, in a state of 7 million, is very poor. A beautiful sunny Sunday, League heartland, playing the best team in the comp... Mothers Day or not, 14,600 is also a poor crowd. You sound like you genuinely support your club, which is good. But the prevailing attitude of League (sports) fans in Sydney seems to be that "supporting" your club means watching them on tv. You'll never convince me that 10-14k in Sydney is a "good" crowd.

No offence taken. In fact was a little amused....but only a little mind you. However, I actually like walking and with my increased girth try to manage at least 4 kms a day straight. Shops only half a block away so I always walk....besides would have to park the car futher than the unit if I was driving. I still have two workable legs and in fact only 3 weks ago was walking extensively outside th Stadium at the Royal Easter Show...but brother was I exhausteed at the end of that day and only two show bags to show for it. No PBB, you young pup (I am 61 so some respect please), I have never liked stadium atmospheres except maybe the Sydnet Cricket Ground when you could sit on the hill. There's an atmosphere sitting on a hill watching a game that is lost sitting in plastic and might I add with my back, uncomfortable seats. Call it conditioning, habit, old dogs and new tricks problems if you like. But I dont like colosseums.....must have been eaten by a lion in one in a previous life. But seriously, from my perspective, you are closer to the action, can sense the genius of the players better, and get a much greater sense of the battle in process than sitting half a kilometre away atop some concrete structure almost imagining that the action is computer generated on some X Box or Playstation creation. I like the sense of being part of the action, not some distant spectatotr. Park football forever...and then some.

I was a little snide above, I am driving a point home. Mate, I like park footy too. I live within 1 hour (about 90 mins to the seat)train ride of suncorp. At my home, I have a large 55 inch latest model tv, with a you-beaut thin bezel, and I have a home theatre system with receiver and big speakers, not a cheap one, one worth several thousands, as in, hi fidelity and impact. I have a lovely leather chair I sit in. I make it sound so opulent. Its just really cosy and nice. I am able to turn up the tv as loud as I want, and I even have a computer beside the tv so I can stream video, ect. Its a great little setup, I have the down lights in just the right spot and I can dim them. ___ Given ALL that above, I still prefer to goto the game. It takes 90 mins to the seat. It takes about the same to get home if you leave right away. (its harder to get to the gabba btw, involving bus no matter where you go from unless someone drops you off outside...but people still go in numbers.) Its a bit of a journey to the stadium, but I love to go. When there I do not want to leave. __ I love the atmosphere at the match, the sounds, the sights, the girls in the crowd, the play on the field, the cheerleaders, the anticipation on the way there and the victory march home (or defeat shuffle). I truly love it. ___ Even tho my home setup is ever so sweet, and I enjoy the comforts of my home, I love Suncorp. I am sorry - for you to tell me that you'd reject such an awesome stadium is ludicrous. But what am I talking about. The SFS is no Suncorp, and neither still are no Westefallen stadion. (Signun Iduna Park). __ While I do sympathise with you, and understand your position, I could not, and would not accept such an attitude long term. While I urge you to continue to attend - because park footy is almost as great an experience too, its simply going to leave the game for dead long term

wow, you go on as if it were my choice to take away this basic human right you have. well you're just one bloke after all do you like to even goto the shops? ya know, for milk and eggs n stuff? or do you hunt what comes by your door. onwards and downwards, must be your motto __ but still its your choice. Good luck with it. Don't mind my little snipes. Truly. You still get your suburban grounds, and you should enjoy them while they are there - irrespective at how long they are there for. I like your style./ But still, I LOL. because Westefallen stadium has been consistently voted the best stadia in europe for years. You would turn a stadium like that down? Thats what I think a league stadium should look like. You fool.

AR The ACT and Riverina according to you guys are hotbeds of AFL.Apparently whether it is true or not giveaways, were used.Nothing wrong with that BTW. What are you on about playing away from home ,the ACT is part of GWS club,most of the membership emanates from there.Some of your people have been bragging about the fact. Do you understand and it appears by some of your comments historically you don't ,the Sharks played an out of town team,who brought no one. The bleeding ACT govt is paying you mob $500,000 of taxpayers'' money per game to play there as part of the GWS deal.It is as much part of GWS as West Sydney.If it is not tell the good people of the ACT,they are person non grata. BTW one of the AFL commentators at the GWS match,queried Folau"Surely this beats playing for Australia".I have read about ,listened to some delusional comments over the years ,but that would leave Roy Masters,Caro Wilson et al his wake. . Oh and the AFL dont 'play on a monday night,experience that for a year and judge. It doesn't matter what the size of Sydney is,my point and it is really hard to emphasise it,is that clubs like Cronulla are more localised than the older established clubs like Souths and Saint.The mindset is following your local club locally.that applies to Manly and Penrith. I just love it when AFL people come on board,and tell clubs like Cronulla the situation,when it appears they have little idea. The club today had 14,600 in attendance on Mother's Day.I didn't attend for that reason.The Storm brought a handfull.And you are trying to lecture Cronulla on how to run the show,just because the southerners have a better geographical and transport infrastructure.You honestly believe they would get more at ANZ.,I have more chance of playing for the Swans. The Waratahs representing the whole state of 7 million got 17,000 odd ,on saturday.And guess what the stadium was centralsied in Sydney ,with a big capacity. You have a shot at the mindset of NRL clus with localised support,without having an inkling on what goes on there.it's all very well to sit back on a keyboard and suggest clubs do this and that,but it is the fans of the club,who in the end decide and are the backbone.

'Your response, again, is evidence of the problematic mindset in the NRL:' Well Australian Rules you seem to think to be a know it all about RL by all means tell me how will go around NRL attendance issues please entertain me with your ideas. It seems AFL fans such as Ian Whitchurch & yourself think they know more about RL than the actual supporters.

8,600 is definitely a poor crowd, no question. But regardless of promotions, these are 2 teams with supporter bases less than 14 months old...playing away from both their homes, in a town where there is no AFL team. Your response, again, is evidence of the problematic mindset in the NRL: That a 10,000 crowd (for 2 established teams) could ever be deemed "decent".

Yep PBB. You've got me. Apathetic, resistent, intransigent...whatever. Still wouldnt go. Have to admit to you one other factor. A sense of good old park footie. I lived a kilometre from Brookvale Oval when I was a kid. Loved going to all the Manly matches played there for decades. Have lived on the the side of Sydney now for a few decades and only about 4-5 kilometres from the Stadium. Though I've been to activities outside the Stadium, I've never attended anything inside it. Its been sitting there for over 10 years almost walking distance away and I've never attended a fixture there. Mind you my football attendance days diminished greatly after the Super League war...I was disgusted by it and I dont think I've ever really forgiven those behind the travesty. But I have attended Brookvale Oval intermittently, because its 'HOME', a sense of continuity, memory, community. Sorry PBB. You'll never win me over because I dont like huge impersonal stadiums. Maybe with the next generations it will be different but I'm a park football supporter and always will be. I also enjoy, if attending a match, three grades of fooy, not some plastic one match production with all the glitz. I love being close enough to the players and ref so they can actually hear what I am shouting. Its all part of the fun of the day. When a try is scored in the north eastern corner of Brookie Oval, I'm almost there scoring it with the player, we're so close. I can hear the grunts. almost smell the sweat, rise up after a great play and shout appreciation to a player...and know he can hear you. Park footy makes you feel part of the drama of what's happening. Stadium footie, and I have been to the SFF at Moore Park, is like watching something at a distance...and I can do that watching TV. It may be rudimentary tribalism. It may be an outlet and being part of something, even if you are on the other side of the fence. You recognise many in the crowd you shared the experience with last time, you may be sitting there under a brolly soaking wet. But there's something about park footie that you'll never get at an anticeptic, structured, impersonal stadium. Maybe its conditioning, maybe its clinging to a long past youth. But no matter how tatty Brookie Oval may be (and I'm sure other supporters like me feel the same about their home grounds) there's something about the atmospehere and involvement, a stadium will never achieve. Call me complacent, apathetic, even selfish if you like But its my choice of entertainment and take away footie from Brookie and I'll only watch League on TV or find some other park football to watch..