AFL State of Origin: It's time

How about NSW and QLD and ACT combine to make Q South CAPITALS. Finally a team that could truly dislike and beat BIG VIC. Next week we combine SA and WA. Give them NT as well. They shall be known as SANTWA or WANTSA. I think I prefer SANTWA. They will probably beat BIG VIC too and dislike them even more to ensure maximum injury toll taken on BIG VIC superstars. Once SANTWA and the QS CAPITALS have had their wicked way with BIG VIC. Softened them up. Its TASSIEs turn. Match will have to be played on an island in Bass Straight to ensure maximum hyperthermia and that all those tribal BIG VIC nuts cry so much about losing their star players they send the C Grade Under 15 BIG VIC all stars. Solved. All Australians unite in the joy of seeing Eddie McGuire cry again. Woops, I mean, beating BIG VIC.

Oh and on the hatred and rivalry thing: Any non-mexican who has posted on this website that does not despise victoria (yes with a little v) and its arrogance when it comes to footy, put up their hand...Yep, I though so. And any Victorian who doesn't think they would start caring once they started getting beat in SOO needs to think again.

I love these conversations about the Aussie rules state of origin that occur every year about this time. And mostly I agree with everything Ben has to say about the passion and spectacle it would generate. One cavet though: club tribalism in Aussie rules runs far deeper than in any other sport in Australia by a long way. Being a fan of League and Aussie rules (and from NSW) I would say the League needs Origin far more than AFL does - probable the biggest reason for the current state of affairs. But I think the time is becoming right. As a passionate NSWelshman I still remember the night, sitting with my mates on a winter's night watching when NSW beat victoria for the first and only time (1990), and as a non-traditional (victorian-hating) AFL state supporter I think the biggest benefit would be the support and intrest in the 'traditional' League states NSW and Queensland. People forget NSW has a proud and long tradition of AFL in many areas, primarily where I grew up in the riverina, but also far south coast, far west and now (increasingly) areas of sydney itself. Think NSW wouldn't have chance? Probably our depth is our weak point but in any given year a NSW side would be very competitive against all other states, Queensland too for that matter. A few facts before I propose what would be the best model for AFL SOO: 1. If there was a NSW SOO team it would generate huge interest because even those in NSW who still don't have any intrest in AFL but are parochial and sport's lovers would get involved - there is nothing like hatred of mexicans to fire up a NSWelshman and remind them that we, not they, were the first state. Only Aussie-rules hating League dinosaurs (thankfully a dying breed) would not show some interest. 2.Any who doubt NSW wouldn't be competitive? Take a random year in the last 20, say 1999. Who would've been in the NSW side: Wayne Carey, Shane Crawford (Brownlow year), James Hird (like the League ACT would play under NSW), Paul Kelly, Leo Barry, John Longmire, Dean Solomon...Need I go on? That sort of line up would have had any arrogant mexican quaking in their boots. 3. Following on from the last point: 18 kids were drafted onto AFL lists from NSW in the 2010 draft (to start 2011 season), 11 in the 2011 draft, 46 in total in the last 4 years. Finding Figures on regular NSW players is more difficult, but as a quick snapshot: Swans: 6 on theire 2012 list, GWS: 6 also, Hawthorn 2, Brisbane 2, Collingwood 2, St KIlda 3, Western Bulldog's 4 etc - Pretty much all AFL (apart from WA and SA clubs) clubs have 2-4 NSW players on their list. I make about 50 in total. For Queensland its even more, the amount of players coming from Southport (Dawes, Riewoldt), Mt Gravatt etc is scary. In fact for NSW it could well be more than this because on the AFL players lists they players are often listed from their club/school of origin e.g. For Tom Hawkins he is from Finley in NSW but is listed as from Melbourne Grammer where he went to school. 4. Not just number's on lists but look at the current core of what the NSW origin side would be: Lenny Hayes, Koschitzke, Adam Schneider, Kiaran Jack, Jarrod Mcveigh, Mark McVeigh, Roberts-Thompson, Bret Staker, Paul Bevan, Tom Hawkins etc I dare anyone to tell me that backbone of a side (with many GWS youngsters and others like newcomer Addison from the Bulldogs coming up) would not be very competitive. So for NSW being in an AFL SOO I think the case is pretty strong. The same point applies to Queensland, but even more so. As for the best model for SOO? It is the model of the old Ranfurly Shield New Zealand's old challenge Rugby Union Comp. In the first year any state that nominates play a knock-out to decide the first champ. Every year after that the losing states which nominate are draw again to play a knock-out with the winner earning the right to challenge holder. This model has many advantages: 1. minimising the number of games every year to not too many by having a knock-out, and only states who nominate would play. 2. The final,a single match for the holder would be a massive event. A final point as to the sides: as indicated by my model any state can nominate if they can fill a side, currentlyall six states (ACT with NSW) have more than enough AFL regulars to play SOO. My own curve ball is a 7th possible side made up of indigenous/NT side? How much passion would this generate in Indigenous communities? I don't know for sure, but can anyone doubt it wouldn't be massive? The timing of an AFL SOO is always controversial. But a 3 week mid-season gap (2 weeks for the knock round, which would be a max of 2 games anyway) and then the third week for the final. Simply shorten the pre-season to compensate. The more you think about it on every level the more Aussie rules SOO has to happen. Not just wishful thinking... I think in the very near future.

8 teams the six states Northern Teritory and Internationals 2 pools 4 teams in each each team plays all other teams in their pool once the top teams in each pool play in the state of origin grand final ej whitten legands game curtin raiser to origin grand final

hows this 8 teams the six states Northern Teritory and Internationals 2 pools 4 teams in each each team plays all other teams in their pool once the top teams in each pool play in the state of origin grand final ej whitten legends games curtin raiser to state of origin grand final

If we had only 2 big states playing AFL, then we would have SOO. AFL players cant be expected to back up on the following weekend like the NRL does because of the amopunt of running - SOO NRL players do it but only some back up well...NRL SOO is so compromised with flag of convenience representation and Qld dominance it is a pale imitation of the days when Harrigan would ensure a close contest. ITs very important to Qlds but I fear less so for Croweaters...

Take a deep breath everyone, SoO did not work in AFL, Now, lets move on with proper home and away club footy. Make the proper season longer. Get rid of the NAB cup and add 4 more weeks to the season.

Cattery, Of course another reason put forward as to why the SOO concept won't return anytime soon, is the fact that now every state has a minimum of two teams in the AFL, creating 'mini' SOO matches almost every weekend. Perhaps at some point in the future the AFL will require some kind of match to recognise, & give the players an opportunity to compete & prove, the best players in the comp. At present the All-Australian team is selected on performances throughout the year. But if you pitched, for want of a better pair of words, the "probables" against the "possibles", or something similar, with an All-Australian jumper at the end of it, this would give extra meaning & gravitas to earning the title of 'All-Australian'.

Very well put Sheek, can't argue with any of that. Just to clarify, the first SOO in Australian Football occurred in 1977, when the idea was put forward by WA. To see the significance of the suggestion: A Western Australian team comprised entirely of home-based players had, on 25 June, taken on a VFL team containing many of the same players who would return to Perth ... for the state of origin clash. The respective scores of the two matches offered a persuasive argument, if such were needed, of the extent to which the VFL had denuded the WAFL of its elite talent: On 25 June 1977 VFL 23.16 (154) defeated Western Australia 13.13 (91) — a margin of 63 points On 8 October 1977 Western Australia 23.13 (151) defeated Victoria 8.9 (57) — a margin of 94 points, representing an overall turn around of 157 points. Western Australia's previous biggest winning margin against a Victorian state team had been a mere 38 points in 1948. Almost overnight, an inferiority complex was dismantled: Victoria, it seemed, was not intrinsically superior, only wealthier. —Devaney Another point of clarification, Victoria first played an inter-colonial match against South Australia in 1879, and without knowing too much about who played for either side, it's reasonable to presume that each team consisted predominantly of players raised in the respective colonies. The SOO concept, as used first by Australian Football, and then by Rugby League three years later, was built around the concept that the rep games did not involve players playing for a state comp, e.g. VFL vs WAFL, but rather teams made up of players who had learned their footy in a particular state, and thus you had VFL players returning to represent their states of origin - and of course the identical thing happened as far as the NSWRL and Queensland went. It's also worth pointing out that the chip on Queensland's shoulders that exists to this day, also existed with SA and WA, and that was always what gave SOO the edge, and continues to give it the edge as far as the RL version goes. But the honest truth is that Victorian fans have never cared enough, we will always put our clubs ahead of our state - always - in fact, all of them pre-date Victoria as a state. I can see the day when NSW fans might go the way that Victoria fans went, when club becomes more important than state. In Queensland, it quite clearly is at the opposite end of the spectrum - and that continues to give the concept much bite.

Sate of Origin was created by Australian football, just in case any rugby league folk was wondering. Back in either 1972 or 75 from memory. State of origin works wonderfully well for rugby league for 2 reasons: 1. There's only two teams - NSW & Qld. 2. The whole concept is based on the premise of of David (Qld) regularly defeating Goliath (NSW). If NSW, & not Qld, had won the past 6 successive SOS series, the concept would be on its knees at present. That's a fact! AFL won't have a SOS for the same reason as rugby union - too many teams, too many options. Which effectively would mean too many game. Rugby union is structured differently, with their provinces/states providing the main game. But for AFL to reprise the SOS would mean too many games. Specifically, too many games interfering with club footy. AF can provide 6 quality states - Victoria, SA, WA, Tas, NSW/ACT & Qld/NT. That's 8 if you make NT & ACT separate entities. Even if you split them into two divisions, realistically each would need to play 4 games. Vic, SA & WA would play each other twice home & away for 4 games each. Tas, NSW/ACT & Qld/NT would also play each other twice home & away for 4 games. Probably great for TV & AFL, since this would mean a total of 12 matches spread over 6 weekends. But that's where it cuts too much into the club premiership. I don't think Plotter's suggestion above would work simply because the games must be marquee games. Vic thrashing NSW/ACT won't have the viewers enthralled. Despite it's narrow premise, RL's version works because often most of the games are close. Blow-outs will kill any sporting concept. Anyway, this is my two bob's worth, as they used to say in the old days.....

As Big Al says, the AFL puts virtually nothing into the International Cup, players pay their own way. In fact, the first two International Cups were entirely grass roots affairs, and the AFL only started recognising it the last two. Personally, I say good luck to them.. When I pursued my dream of representing Australia at Hookey, I was free to do so, and others should feel free to pursue whatever the hell they want.

clearly international rules is going down the drain. We need some form of representation. State of Origin has to be it. I say every year 2 weeks after the grand final and go with michael's idea, except, combine Qld and NT and NSW and ACT. 3 games, friday, saturday and sunday night, promotion relegation each year???

I like the idea - expressed by others before me - of a single weekend, three-day State of Origin game annually in the AFL. 6 teams - Vic, SA, WA, Tassie, Qld/NT & NSW/ACT. The latter two aligned as per the new NEAFL structure. In the first year, you could seed the teams so they play 1v2, 3v4 & 5v6. The winner of 1v2 is crowned champion. For the following year, the losers of 1v2 & 3v4 each get 'relegated'. The winners of 3v4 & 5v6 each get 'promoted' up. This system would give us 3 State of Origin games per year, each of a relatively even skill level. Only NSW/ACT and perhaps Tassie would struggle to field competitive teams, and you may be able to help them by making international players eligible or allowing them to pluck players from their state comps. It would give all footballers a chance to play Origin, and allow for games to be played in each State/Territory on a rotating basis - an important aspect in that we are Australia's Game. Assuming that the Big V were seeded #1, this system would see them play a different team each year for the championship. They would have to consistently win that one game to maintain the status - something that's unlikely in light of previous Origin results. By losing a single game, they would be relegated to the 3v4 position the following year, giving a lower-ranked team a chance to topple them, and the likes of SA and WA a chance to play off for Champion. In short, it's a single weekend of scheduling, everyone gets to be involved, it serves up new rivalries every year, but always games that lead teams towards being crowned State of Origin champion.

Surely it all depends on the balance between representative and club matches. One, two or even three representative matches mixed with around 200 club matches, as in the NRL, is not going to make the AFL competition suddenly unviable. Done well, it will add to the yearly 'blockbuster' games and attract more interest in AFL. I completely agree the cricket and rugby union have gotten the mix completely wrong and severely damaged the financial viability of their club competitions.

What time ? What money ? - I'm not aware of either.

We dislike everyone else but Carlton.

Cattery, Why does the AFL put so much time and money into the International Cup then ?? And.......you seem to spend an inordinate amount of time spruiking the spontaneous outbreak of AFL all over the known world. Surely you can't break the hearts of hundreds of thousands of overseas kids by telling them you're only worried about a few clubs in suburban Melbourne..........think of the kids mate !!!

Come on Redb........hate is a very strong word !! Lets just say they dislike each other a whole lot !! Its only a game after all.

Football United No one whinges - we don't bother with it - that's the crucial difference. Our focus is elsewhere.

Oh yeah no disputing that. I was more refering to the fans of say Richmond, Melbourne, North, Footscray that have been starved of success. On a side note, Is the ride over for the Cats ??