Is rugby really clean?

Here's some of the paperwork that started to raise questions about this link with the Great Jonah and Alonzo Mourning among others: http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/244631-overview (Nephrotic Syndrome explained) http://www.emaxhealth.com/1020/81/34291/anabolic-steroid-use-leads-kidney-problems.html http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/10/sports/10steroids.html?_r=1 On the other side for Corticosteroids: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/07/100715172006.htm Let me know your thoughts.

bout brains not brawn

GRS I haven't done much gym since playing (preferring Pilates, running and boxing now) but I was flabberghasted at the amount of products in a supplement shop I visited the other day. I was told the creatines and HMBs of my day were overtaken by many things which are far more powerful and yet to be banned by the sports associations. It'd be great to have a Bodybuilding expert or sports scientist break it all down as to what's now available and how far behind the authorities are. Anyone?

Trying to comment on this article is particularly hard. Whatever one might say it usually is rumour and innuendo that abound not proof. I have seen use of steroids in the 80s at club level but I am unable to say who and when and at what club. Suffice to say there were more than one of each of these. If you are nearly there to the top level but just can't quite make it and someone offers you a leg up (steroids) one would be fairly tested to try and if it was offered by trusted people that trained and managed and coached, would you blame a young bloke for giving it a go. It must be hard to see your chance go out the door to someone who is just that bit bigger when you are busting your backside and try as hard as might. Especially when the philosophy of coaching is to pick bigger is better. I have often said to my fellow rugby watchers (when seeing a player that was a certain size the season before turn up at the start of the season with an extra 5 to 10 kg of muscle added to his frame) how did this bloke get that big in such a short off season? Some of our present stars are bordering on being beyond belief in their muscle definition, but who knows with all the bulk up stuff that they take that is questionable legal what can one say.

Let me get back to you abnutta but I did read an article on it a few years back so I'll do a search. It may have been complete bollocks as Islanders are more susceptible to a few of these conditions anyway.

So Coxinator, did you do any research to see whether "Nephrotic Syndrome" could be caused by steroid abuse?

Cheers apaway. We only have to look at the premature deaths of former WWE Superstars/Cyclists/Sprinters to see the long-term effects of taking such substances. I hope there isn't a wave of deaths in ten years of former Rugby/League players.

Falcore, I wasn't thinking about it much either at the time (especially if we the Filth knocked you boys off). Looking back now, it makes me wonder why some of the more dominant physical specimens in the comp never did anything at top level (i.e. for the Reds). Was it because they were now being tested? Who knows? The other thing not mentioned in the article is that some of my League mates claimed usage of steroids was clinical in the pre-season training at a few clubs during the Rodney Howe era. In relation to the UK also, while I was involved with Scottish National Club comps there was no testing either.

Good on you to talk about that Coxinator as the rather taboo subject if often avoided by journos. Like you, I do have doubts. 15y ago, when i was still in the NH, we always looked at the south suspiciously, especially if the guys had big jaws or put on 10kgs of muscle in the last 6 months. In March, a French doctor diagnosed 2 'atypical' form of cancers on 2 young players who had taken some creatin (which is banned in France). Some former players have also said steroids were widespread in some clubs in the 90s and 2000s. In my experience, the only positive players that i met had been tested + for canabis, which is another story !!

I am still firmly in "benifit of the doubt camp" and i explain why here http://www.theroar.com.au/2012/08/15/doping-suspicion-now-doing-more-damage-than-doping-itself/

Yeah, I've often thought that if certain sports were tested like cycling or athletics, that a lot would be getting caught out (although it would probably drop sharply as people learned to beat the testers or were deterred from using). Certainly, AFL is a very endurance based sport which players could benefit from EPO use or blood doping. A particularly egregious example is the NFL, which hands out weak 4 match bans for violations of its substance abuse policy, and IIRC only recently started testing for HGH. Also, I have recently read a few stories about amateur cyclists testing positive, after events in the US such as the NYC Grand Fondo started testing due to the relatively large prize pool at stake (see http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/28/sports/cycling/doping-in-cycling-reaches-into-amateur-ranks.html).

Because if you are stronger, faster and heal quicker you may find yourself indeed in a Professional team after performances that are far better than the rest.

I was unable to find any press release figures of number of tests done for NRL/Super15/Shute/JimBeam/QldCup or ITM for that matter. AFL was last to report as Chris Lewis stated in his article and even that was a few years ago. Might have pull out the quill and make a written request to all of them!

Some interesting questions Coxinator. I played in the Brisbane prem comp from 99 - 2005, with a few seasons in prem, and drugs weren't much of a thought, other than the occasional tongue in cheek comment about particularly montrous props or no8's. I vaguely remember being told when I first joined my club (UQ) at age 17 that if I made it to prem grade I should be aware I could be tested. Last I ever heard of it. Played 2 seasons in London 1 in the UK where some clubs had pro-contracted players but testing was never mentioned.

forgot the roids, they just need to learn some basic freak'n skills first! (like catching the ball!!!)

steroids doesnt make sense. rugby is about balance and endurance, 2 things u dont get from roids....mind u i used to think they didnt make sense in baseball as its all about timing and co-ordination but there u go. ps - i was working security at a recent canes game. on one of the doors near the changing rooms i saw a sign that said drug testing. i imagined cory jane in there with a table lined up with rolled smokes, taking a puff and saying ""yeah dude that sht's real good".

The way the Wallabies played on Saturday night indicates that none of them are on anything, maybe thats the way tobeat the kiwis is to juice the Wallabies up.

I've been looking into 'Power Lifting' lately and came across this: ==================================================================== Dr Casey Butt Phd, author of “Your Muscular Potential”, has analyzed anthropometric measurements of more than 300 drug-free champion bodybuilders and strength athletes from 1947 to 2007. After 6 years of research he has come up with a set of equations to measure your genetic potential based on your height. For a guy with 7” wrists and 9” ankles who wants to achieve a muscular body with 10% body fat, this is the maximum body-weight you can achieve naturally according to his data... · 6'0” => max 207lbs (94Kg) · 6'2” => max 216lbs (97Kg) This is NOT your lean body mass, this is your total body-weight when you step on the scale for your given height and at 10% body-fat. Quote from Dr Casey Butt Phd: “In reality, it will take years of dedicated, productive training for most genetically typical trainees to even approach these predictions. Most people, including champions, will never achieve this level of development throughout all of their muscle groups - and measurements taken at higher body fat levels do not reflect true muscular development. If you reach 95% of most of these predictions - in lean condition - you will stand out in almost any gym. In fact, 95% represents good lifetime goals for most genetically typical, drug-free trainees. At a lean 90% you'd look like a fitness model.“ ================================================================== Arnold Schwarzenegger is 6'2" and weighed just under 107Kg when he won the Mr Olympia competition. So simply looking at the Weights / Heights of some of our players today - they must be carrying alot of extra fat else you have to wonder how they are getting the sizes that they are. And Arnold admitted using (although small doses) of steroids...

Well said, Coxinator. One of the aspects of sport today is the "instant result" mentality which pervades many levels. Coaches and committees demand instant success, as do fans to an extent, and players figure out the best way to instant results, especially in sports where power and strength are important pre-requisites, is drugs. Of course, "instant result syndrome" doesn't look long-term and the effects of players taking steroids in their futute lives should be as much a deterent as the possibility of getting caught by a test.

likewise Coxinator, I'm also glad you went through and submited this article becuase it raises some very valid questions. As we also discussed on Saturday, 1714 tests at the IRB level is not a whole lot in the grand scheme of things, for an international sport. It would be worth seeing if the ARU, for eg, lists any info about their own testing regime. You'd certainly hope that the ARU don't just solely rely on the IRB to conduct testing within Australia, though if your former rugby colleague is to be believed, perhaps that is the case..