Steve Hansen caused a fuss this week when he waded into the debate on player depth in Australian rugby.
The New Zealand coach was prompted after Aucklander Mike Harris kicked the Wallabies to a draw on Saturday night, and the Western Force signed All Black scrummy Alby Mathewson for next year’s Super Rugby season.
It is true that a number of New Zealand-born players have starred for the Wallabies in recent times – Quade Cooper, Sekope Kepu and Digby Ioane – and there are a stack more playing for Australian Super Rugby sides.
There’s also been a Wallabies few born in other countries – David Pocock, Radike Samo, Will Genia, for example.
It is also true that Australian rugby has never ever really been blessed with amazing depth, basically because its playing numbers have never matched those of New Zealand, South African or England.
Rugby league remains a big lure for many players, and the ARU must compete with the NRL, AFL and FFA for the most talented footballers in the country. Cricket is another strong competitor. The game they play in heaven sits in fourth or fifth place in this race.
However, according to the ARU’s figures, participation rates were up last year.
The debate about player depth has been exacerbated by the poor performance of Australia’s Super Rugby teams this year, and the introduction of the Melbourne Rebels. Our disappointing showing at this year’s Under-20 World Cup hasn’t helped either.
But just how accurate is Hansen? Is Australia pillaging the Shakey Isles?
Well, first of all, it pays to remember that there are around half a million Kiwis living in Australia at the moment. The migration of New Zealanders across the ditch, as well as Pacific Islanders, has become a flood in recent years.
Globalisation and better economic opportunities make Australia an attractive home. This won’t change anytime soon. It’s common sense that many of these migrants and their children will represent Australian in sport. While it’s unfortunate for New Zealand, it is a fact of modern life.
But New Zealand itself has benefited from migration trends, with countless players with Samoan, Fijian and Tongan blood starring in club rugby, the ITM Cup and Super Rugby.
New Zealand has long been the top exporter of rugby-playing talent around the globe – as the world champions and a place where rugby is a religion, expect this to continue in the future. Again, something that Hansen needs to learn to live with.
Right now there are 142 professional rugby players in Australia, comprising the first-choice teams of the five Super Rugby clubs, but not including their wider Academy/emerging squads or the Australian Sevens teams. Of this the vast majority are Australian or eligible to play for Australia.
But what about the 50 or so players plying their trade in leagues in Europe? Those playing on the fields of England, Ireland, Scotland, Wales and France rarely get mentioned or considered in this debate.
That number includes former Wallabies Matt Giteau, Luke Burgess, Dean Mumm, Huai Edmonds, Cameron Shepherd, Mark Chisholm, Morgan Turini, David Lyons, Justin Harrison and Josh Valentine, as well as former Super Rugby players such as Patrick Phibbs, Julian Salvi, Nic Berry, Daniel Halangahu, Pat O’Connor, Brock James, Ben Hand and Josh Holmes.
It also includes Australian-born Italy and Scotland reps Luke McLean and Dan Parks, and former Kangaroo Luke Rooney, but not those playing in Japan or elsewhere (USA, Canada etc).
You put those players, currently starring for Exeter, Leicester, Treviso, FC Grenoble, Stade Francais and other clubs, together and you would have a pretty handy Australia squad.
Sure, several of those players have moved to Europe because they are at the end of their careers. Others have been lured by fat contracts, a change of lifestyle or simply because they didn’t see an opportunity for themselves in Australia, which is fair enough.
But now with five Super Rugby franchises, the playing opportunities have increased significantly. With the Wallabies and Australian Super Rugby teams suffering this season what seems like a record injury-cloud, there has never been a better chance for a player to put himself in the green and gold shop window.
The reality is we need to do a better job of retaining our own talent and encourage those youngsters, produced on our shores, to stay home. We want them to play their best years in Australia and depart for overseas at the latter stage of their careers, if they decide to.
So, Steve Hansen has a point, but is not considering the whole picture. He is being shortsighted and should understand the wider factors at play here. Players will move where the greatest opportunity is.
Australia, and New Zealand, need to improve their development and recruitment strategies. Australian Super Rugby playing squads, as the likes of Ewen McKenzie have asked, should be extended. The introduction of a viable third tier, or an under-20s competition like the NRL’s Toyota Cup, is another idea that should be debated.
A review of player nationality eligibility in Super Rugby and the selection of overseas-based players for Test rugby, ala global football, may be warranted.
Player depth in Australian rugby is always going to be a struggle but there are solutions out there.
Paul
Guest
What planet are you on. Rugby in Melbourne is a joke. There selection process for state teams is a joke and run very badly. You mention some players, you may want to check which schools and where produce most wallabies. Most of the rugby matches in Melbourne at junior level are a cross between afl and rugby with kids trying hand pass the ball and just kicking it. The sooner the rugby authorities do something the better because its rubbish in Melbourne. Go watch the finals of junior rugby and try not to shake your head in disbelief.
yahyah
Guest
Well put Chivas. Appreciate your neutral look on things and acknowledgement for all other Pacific Islanders.
yahyah
Guest
He did have some sort of Samoan heritage richard. Although yes all is fair that NZ have more right to their allegiance than Samoa since they are in fact NZ products. But what strikes me is that Samoa did have a large input in bringing out the best in these players who were initially not good enough for the Black jersey like Ieremia and Stephen Bachop (we wont mention Bunce for that matter) but NZ were happy to take them back at will and then ironically put a stop to International trades. That is quite disturbing when youre on the financially and economically weaker side. But nonetheless I couldnt care less. Samoans representing the All Blacks still make us proud.
Chivas
Guest
I think to a degree, we do have a responsibility to the islands. Not because anyone else thinks so. For me it's because we do have such a large Polynesian element and it is an important part of our cultural make-up. I remember playing against Manu Samoa and all the families on the sideline laughing and singing. People often think in rugby they just tackle hard, but in my experience that day tackling them felt like running flat out into a steel gate. But I digress, they really are a very family oriented people and it adds a wonderful flavour to the kiwi culture. The comments about NZ poaching is a nonsense not requiring a comment. The only reason I have is to highloght the special relationship, ties and history NZ has with the islands, in hope that people might understand how important they are to us and us to them. Sport is an insignificant part of the relationship, but brings pleasure to all parties. And for the record NewZealand does more than any country to develop the game in the islands. Comments that we somehow rip off the islands does tend to verge on the offensive, but ignorance is such that it often appears that way and I'm sure the comment made was just that.
Chivas
Guest
Kind of. As mentioned Frank Bunce was born and grew up in NZ. He has never lived in Samoa. But I agree on a different level and it has been discussed in NZ quite a bit. That is NZ can always do more to develop the game in the islands. I also thought at the time we should have left Buncie playing for Samoa as it is good to see a few stars in these sides. But after a couple of seasons for the AB's he lifted his game to another level. Was he the oldest player to ever play an international for NZ? But as to your point, maybe he was just poached back :-)
richard
Guest
Except your argument falls down in the case of Frank Bunce,as he wasn't even samoan in the first place. As someone else mentioned, it seems these players island ethnicity is only an issue when these players make themselves available for nz. But I keep forgetting, its nz's job to train up and supply them,(and it seems everyone else) with their talent.We (nz) are now being told by other countries fans that we have got too much talent, and we should share it around.What a joke!
yahyah
Guest
Frank Bunce and Alama Ieremia were both ignored by the All Blacks in '91. Having been left out, they switched to Samoa (and no it is no longer W.Samoa). No financial benefits obviously so this wasn't luring them in anyway. They immediately impressed on the world stage where NZ then noticed them and tempted them back to the All Blacks. that has to be poaching of some sort.
richard
Guest
I totally concur with you,but you can see how childish the whole argument is getting.As you say, he only had two test caps - little wonder I had forgotten about him. As an aside, I personally believe, if any country has got a legitimate gripe,it would be Fiji. I reckon they have been royally screwed over the years,by both nz and aus, and now it would seem by the NH clubs.
atlas
Guest
Vidiri - did someone 'make' him move to NZ? Or did he move for the opportunities it offered? He played three seasons for Counties Manukau in what was then NPC 1996-98. Made just one start and one brief appearance as a sub for the All Blacks 2 weeks apart in 1998. 84 minutes total. Two test caps only. If he was poached, he has to be one of the worst 'poachees' ever. Note that 14 years later he still lives in Auckland.
richard
Guest
Easy enough to take that tack, when it isn't your player base being pillaged. I hear Aussies saying this all the time, but that's only because you're not the one's on the receiving end.
Steve
Guest
Lot of people on their high horses here. Players will evaluate where there best opportunity lies, weigh up risk and make a decision, simple as that. For most players the earning years are limited and they owe it to themselves and family to make educated chooses. Teams whether they be national or provincial are no more loyal than any player and the contract between them. As an Wallabiy fan I will support them regardless of whether they are Tongan Samoan Fijian New Zealand or Zimbabwe born.
Wal
Roar Guru
The Crusaders do not need outside backs, as above they have Guildford, Dagg, Tom Marshall, maybe Maitland and have developed another local Jonny McNicol (watch that name next year!!!) they also had to let Kade Poki & Telusa Veainu go to Otago. And as back up Patrick Osborne is no slouch either
Wal
Roar Guru
Thanks Jerry What those numbers probably do say is NZer's pick Rugby as a first choice, and the better players continue on with it. Those numbers certainly don't include Touch footy, my old club Burnside had 2000 registered touch footy players alone.
Wal
Roar Guru
Sounds like Wellington is fast becoming Aus's greatest rugby nursery :)
Wal
Roar Guru
I agree with one exception, as a Kiwi living in Oz there is nothing wrong with NZer's playing for the Wallabies EXCEPT (and this is where Hansen also has an issue) is when recruiters from Australia go to NZ to take players from that system. Born overseas means nothing now days, recruited from a foreign country to play for another nationality gets a fair bit more gray.
Roscoe
Guest
Apparently Rebels are having trouble convincing ex Vics to return. Money has been mentioned but not money alone. Maka was offered "assistance" but chose France. At the end of the day players go wherever it suits them. Always easy to talk about loyalty when you are not in the position to really worry about it. Supporters- as a Brumby man I'm disappointed to see Hooper go. From respecting Pocock at the Force I'll know see him as one of out "boys".
richard
Guest
Thought I would expand on your thread above , I just get brassed off with aus supporters looking for excuses to justify what they are currently doing. Also, forgot Vidiri, and Caucau was , in my view, never going to be an ab,as nz was basically being made to look foolish pursuing him. Regardless, the basic thrust of my argument is still correct, and Graeme Perske's blog is nothing more than a fabrication.
Ra
Guest
yes, hilgendorf and brock were and still are very classy, and their contribution to the game in The Naki was immense. They were great ambassadors for their country during their time. I have advocated for some time now the merits of a Sydney club side joining the ITM competition the same as kiwi sides are in a lot of ozzie comps. Its a pity The Naki are losing those very staunchly talented players from this year's side, but that is professional rugby for you. Step back 30 years and young kiwis travelled the world over and played rugby and league on their journey/journies - we use to call it Going on your OE. Good luck Climo, look forward to seeing you in the Scotland colours - you're a class act
Ra
Guest
taking manawatu talent is okay today and a pay back for all the years Taranaki fed the brilliant Massey University sides and teacher training college teams of old. At one time in the '70s, or was it the '80s (so far back) the Manawatu backline was all Taranaki and i think Terry Sole on the open side. So tell Kupes to keep on counting coupe Atlas
Chivas
Guest
Wouldn't Caucaunbucs also be a poach had he switched which they tried hard to do. Anyway he was an awesome player who I loved to watch, he had such sublime skills at such pace.