Redefining the Kurt Tippett saga

All 3 players played afl along side each other, didnt say he wasnt at afl level said he was overated.Walker is more accurate forgot this stat, Tippett only had 10 goal assists (team player?), by the way sydneys win rate against Adelaide is only 33 % its worst against any club go sydney the second hand team from melbourne haha you crack me up...

Oh god, That is funny! Tippett is a ruck and a forward.. And proven at afl level You seem to have missed hit-outs as a stat, plus you are comparing Apples and oranges as they say... Afl vs some state league.... Fairly ridiculous, But I do understand .. You support Adelaide... Did you enjoy playing Sydney In the finals, come back here when Adelaide finishes outside the top 8 in 2013... And eat humble pie!

Tippetts stats 2012 Games Goals Disposals Marks 21 39 255 106 Ian Callinan stats 2012 Games Goals Disposals Marks 23 39 291 72 Taylor Walker stats 2012 Games Goals Disposals Marks 19 63 273 128 These stats speak for themselves, Tippett is over rated, Callinan was probably one of the most overlooked players trying to get into AFL.

You've actually made my point it is the very fact that Tippett will ruck in the forward line that Makes him so valuable, rough head,Petrie,Ryder etc are not ruck man they are players that Have been transformed into ruckmen, as a result of their coaches recognizing that it is fact a Necessity of the game due to the increased pace, no matter how mobile your main ruck is He wil not always get to the forward contest, that can and does mean that Tippett rucking Against a Backman in fast forward movement will result in multiple goal assists, his value to Tex will become apparent as tex struggles to kick more than 40-50 goals and the Adelaide Crows struggle to make the top 8 due a lack of goal production is realized, Franklin is a massive Talent ... But in a lot of ways he hurts hawthorn .. As Barry hall used to hurt Sydney. The point I'm making about hannerbrey is no player has ever gotten as many nab votes as him And yet it's only now and towards the end of last season that people in melb have woken up And realized how good he is, no one at the swans would have dropped him, despite Kennedy's Skills since the 1st year he played most swans supporters have known just how good he is. He would be my first pic of any midfielder in the comp, hard as Kirk and a lot more skillfull...... This year as last year in the preseason he again won the 3km time trial... A brown low beckons....or 2 or 3 Have you watched jetta kick... It is a thing of beauty

Well, a lot of sides have a back-up ruckmen, come KPF. Roughead, Petrie, Ryder, Kreuzer, Dawes, Koschitzke / Stanley, even the Tommahwk at times. Tippett will be OK at the Swans, but I just don't see why you're saying this is a big plus over Franklin, Walker or Cloke? If he plays as the back-up ruckmen, that takes him away from the KPF position, lessening his goal kicking effectiveness, which is the heart of the point made by James. Also, the side note? All sides have a number of stars. Hawthorn have heard of a guy called Kennedy and yes, I've seen Jetta run and kick, often. I remember a lot of Swans supporters wanting Hanneberry dropped from the team, towards the end of last season. Lucky you guys stuck with him!

I find this argument to be compelling, but theres is something you seem to have all missed in this discussion.... As a KPF tippett is elite as the stats of the last four years show, but he goes way beyong the inconsistent franklin and others in a very fundamental way.. he also is an excellent ruckman... an incredible asset as shown by all teams reluctance to play a back up ruckman on the bench, due to the neccessity to rotate midfielders as dictated by the increased pace of the game, that asset makes him gold as is clearly demostrated by adelaides consternation at losing him, make no mistake he adds signifigantly to a team that just won the premiership, i never bet...but i am seriously tempted to back the swans this year.. they are "specials" to go back-to-back, as a swans supporter for 26years... having sat through the horror of the early nineties (26 consecutive losses).. i can unequivicably state this is the best sydney team i have ever seen. On a small side note....do any of you know a guy named daniel hannerbrey, unaminous winner of the rising star and most experts pick for the norm smith in the 2012 gf, heard of a guy called kennedy maybe? seen a bloke called jetta run and kick?

Well I support West Coast and think Tippet was well worth a punt by the reigning premiers. On his day he is and has been unstoppable...171 goals or so is a great result, given the Crows weren't one of the top sides during the period... With a dominant midfield this guy will kick a swag. The Swans are going to be tough to roll in 2013 methinks ;-)..

I'm a Crows fan living in NSW and although I follow the Crows I go to all the Swans home games as my wife is a mad keen Swanee. I'm not sure how the Tippett saga will play out - Sydney have a very strong team culture, no room for the individual "superstar" So far my view is Tippett has not delivered to his potential, and maybe Sydney have paid too much for him - having said that he's really a great fit if he performs - the Swans have lacked a consistent tall forward/second ruck man. The issue I have trouble with is all this talk about Tippett betraying the Crows - I don't understand it ? If the club decides to cut a player they just do it - no room for loyalty considerations, it's a business. However if a player decides to leave he's a villain. Doesn't make sense. Clubs can dump coaches and players at a moments notice without much criticism, but watch out if a player decides he's better off at a different club. Mick

Well, on the whole I’m pretty neutral about Tippett’s ability to play – certainly not a fan of the whole deal on how he’s wound up at Sydney (but I’ve stated that above). I think he has the attributes to be a more than handy KPF. But, I think his best value is as a dual threat option and not as a sole target – eg. like Franklin, Cloke, Riewoldt, etc. As Brendon touched on, Walker in my book is the danger for opposition teams and his ability to kick accurately from beyond the 50m mark, was what allowed Tippett off the leash in the PF. The Hawks were very mindful of Tex’s big leg and Tippett just drifted into the open spaces behind him. This meant that a lot of Tippett’s shots on goal are usually from very close range. Which, I reckon Brent Sanderson was pretty happy about, due to the fact that he is inaccurate from beyond 30 odd metres. On the other hand, Tex is pretty accurate from anywhere, including, like Franklin and Cloke and a few others, beyond the 50m arc. As such, it may appear that Kurt is a little bit more accurate, but when you weigh up where the shots were being taken from and if you had the option to pick somebody to kick for your life from 40m, I reckon Kurt wouldn’t be in the top 10 on my list. Will be interesting to see how he works in with Sam Reid, Adam Goodes and I think his success will very much depend on their abilities to take much of the heat of Kurt and allow him to match up on the 2nd and 3rd best defenders, within close range of goal.

Agree Brendon! Overrated, overpaid. Walker is the real deal and the Crows will be better off spending good dollars on retaining Tex, the Dangerfields, Sloans, Thompsons and up and comings players with talent, loyalty and future. Time will tell if Tippett will be worth the drama and the money to produce the goods for the Swans - I doubt it! As for seeing the Crows v Swans with Tippett playing we need to wait for the 2014 season unless both play each other in the 2013 finals which is highly possible, hopefully at AAMI.

Agree, Tippett is not a star forward. He lacks consistency to be considered in the best 5-6 goal kickers in the AFL. However, the Swans have a knack for getting the best of of their players and Tippett certainly has the potential to be a champion full forward. We will see.

I cannot believe this article compares Tippett to Franklin. Not even close. I'm actually a Port supporter but have watched this go beserk in Adelaide and I'm sorry but this bloke shafted the Crows, lied to everyone and moved on for the dollar. he will come to be known as one of the highest paid flops in the history of the game. Yes you mention the prelim, what you don't mention is the fact that he can't kick and that was his only decent game of the year. Far more concerning is the fact that the reigning premier can afford a $700k player after winning a premiership. League equalisation my butt, we can't even afford to pay our very best player that and we have 35,000 members, prob (not sure on this) more than Sydney, how is the league equal? it's not and eventually they will lose fans through the commercialisation of the game, just like what is happening with T20 at the moment, players playing for money not love. Go on Kurt ya big sooky la la, fill your doonah with cash in your new "home", that'll keep you warm at night. can't wait to see him play the Crows, I might just go there for a laugh. Shocking article by the way, still can't believe how much smoke your blowing up this blokes backside, he's just not that good, Tex Walker is the real deal.

i remember when Lockett caved in Caven's nose, amongst the worst of hits, and stole a match that youg Sydney were too amateur to win. Next year Lockett' was Sydney to the end. Caven got double premierships Adelaide style ( 98 aaagh ) . Tippert, injury free, will be Sydney's.

Stevsz, thank you for your kind words. I guess the rich - poor analogy was purely off the back of TC's statement regarding the Gold Coast Clubbers, versus the Sydney Swans and was only referring to playing abilities, not financial prowess, facilities, or anything else. So far as the AFL making an even playing field, I felt they had an opportunity to assist one of the new clubs and also provide a deterrent to people (players & club officials, player managers, etc.) trying to manipulate the system, by perhaps forcing Kurt to choose one or the other - Gold Coast or GWS. After all, he did want to go home and that was his whole argument about wanting out of Adelaide. I agree with most of what you're saying. Sydney has got the most out of the hard workers they have recruited and their is a solid work ethic. The AFL does need to stop pandering to the big Melbourne clubs. Having said that, we don't want them to start pandering to Sydney every 5 minutes, purely on the strength of wanting a bigger piece of the pie, in NSW. The cost of living is a whole different topic and I certainly have my views on that subject, but let's not go there at this time.

Very astute and sensible comment by you both TC and NeeDeep. Hard to argue with much of what you have said. However, NeeDeep, I would debate somewhat your conclusion that "the already strong Sydney team becomes stronger as you’ve noted. Again, this is the AFL failing to even out the competition and as Pete Garrett once said, the “Rich are getting richer, the poor get the picture” Firstly, it cannot be said that Sydney is one of the rich clubs, certainly nowhere near the likes of Collingwood, Carlton, Essendon and Hawthorn. Sydney's membership is less that half of the big four and that's an enormous problem, especially competing in the rugby league mad Sydney market. Sydney has no clubhouse like the others, nor the marketing and merchandising departments that bring in big dollars. I believe Colless the Sydney CEO has been quoted as saying that one bad season on the ladder and loss of somewhat at times bandwaggon fans could send the club broke. And let's not confuse the Salary Cap Concession Sydney receives from the AFL, often quoted in the media at $1million dollars (but in reality around $860,000 this year) as a sign of money in Sydney's bank for player purchases such as Tippett as has been often suggested in media and social media comment. That money is spread amongst the player list to adjust for the cost of living difference with the main AFL base Melbourne and to maintain salary parity for the players. Tippett's affordability came as a result of astute list management over recent years in relation to retirements and delistings, especially this year for the latter in the October player trade and draft bustle period. So Sydney certainly isn't getting richer. And also let's not also confuse Sydney as a "strong team" by virtue of a stable of class elite players, like the Geelongs and Collinwoods of recent years. They have one elite player in Goodes, a couple of mid class troopers in Bolton and O'Keefe, and the rest are essentially recycled second string players from other clubs who have reveled in the second chance given to them at Sydney and have been transformed by the Sydney "hard working ethos" culture created by Kelly, Kirk, Goodes and Bolton in this last decade into a team of champions. They flew under the radar in 2012 without anyone's expectation of a flag win and if all truth be told, pinched the cup. And despite their win, you will probably find that not many other clubs would rate Sydney in the top four or six teams overall. Sydney's success is not in their quality of player but dedication to each other as a team. There are certainly much stronger lists going around at other clubs in terms of class quality players. Further more Sydney has an aging list; six or seven players over 30 and imminent retirements of Bolton and Goodes. You are only as strong in a sense as the players coming through the ranks with the recruiting done by the coach and recruiting manager. Tippett fills a hole as a KPF which Sydney has lacked since Hall and therefore improves the forward potency of the team, but he also forms part of the succession planning. I wouldn't say Sydney are getting stronger but more to the point shoring up for the near future. Neither of these issues from Sydney's point of view are reflected in the AFL failing to even out the competition. That problem is more rooted in Melbourne where the big four mentioned above have huge budgets for their football departments and the other Melbourne clubs are struggling to compete.

I'm not sure what to make of this 'ninth most goals in past four seasons' argument. I mean, I think anyone would acknowledge that Hawkins, Walker, Darling and Mitch Clark are better forwards than Tippett, and they're all younger. And I suspect that if the stat was average goals over four years, then players like Roughead and Petrie might be ahead of him. The writer places a lot of faith in that very selective statistic. I'm not sure it means anything. I guess it's a matter of opinion, but I certainly don't think from what I've seen that he's comparable to Franklin or Cloke. I suppose Sydney do, which is why they're prepared to fork out such an extraordinary amount of money for him.

I've been surprised at how big this story has been. On a well known AFL forum (with no fewer than 157 boards dedicated to Australian Football), the main Kurt Tippett thread has 28k posts and almost 920k views. TC

This has certainly been the story of the off-season, thus far. But I’m not sure what point you are trying to make here, James? If we’re marvelling at Kurt Tippett’s football prowess, I tend to agree with you that he’s no longer “promising” (or for that matter, a “prospect”). But I also agree with TC, that he’s hard to gauge him against the other forwards you’ve listed, as he does really play a different style of footy and the memories of his performance in last year’s preliminary final, were greatly enhanced by the emergence of the Crows other key forward, Tex Walker. Most of those other KPF's you have listed have predominantly played a lone hand (as a KPF) in their team’s forward line for a number of years. Personally I think the AFL have been very soft in how they have handled this matter and in reality, if I had anything to say at another footy club, such as Richmond, or North Melbourne, perhaps the Saints or even the Bulldogs, I’d now be thinking, “screw it – for $300K and a couple of draft picks, we could do a few shonky things and perhaps have a real red hot go at a flag”! I mean why not – it seems to pay off when you look at the stats over the last 20 odd years. Clubs that have been involved in a little bit of skull-duggery (clubs that the AFL has given a wrap on the knuckles for this and that, to do with salary caps and so on) have won 16 of the last 21 flags. There’s about 8 clubs in that bunch, so it’s not disproportionate in the scheme of things, remembering that Gold Coast & GWS are fairly new arrivals and if you want to go a step further, Freo & Port Adelaide aren’t in that group either. So, playing by the rules obviously doesn’t pay off as much as it should. Which means maybe the AFL is being a little weak in its punishment allotments for this sort of thing – don’t you think? Finally, Kurt himself. "I want my mummy and daddy" and I think the Crows were definitely trying to look after Kurt in that regard. However, as it turned out, Kurt was one step ahead of everyone else (through his player manager) and already on his way to Sydney – why else would you stipulate “the club of your / his choice”? He’s certainly done a great job with the media – given them nothing! Which as TC rightly notes is a real pity for the Gold Coast. They really could have done with a player of Kurt’s size and skill, up forward. Unfortunately, the already strong Sydney team becomes stronger, as you’ve noted. Again, this is the AFL failing to even out the competition and as Pete Garrett once said, the “Rich are getting richer, the poor get the picture”!

In that list (focusing on the KPFs), Tippet maybe sits alongside Cloke, being in a similar category of monster one-grabbing forwards (but when Cloak is in form, I'd rate him as a better contested mark). Tippett is well short of where Brown was at his peak (recalling he was a triple premiership winner by age 22); well, well short of where Buddy is, Pav, and even both Riewoldts (recalling that Jumping Jack is a different type of forward, and probably more of a specialist spearhead). It's the sheer paucity of monster forwards in the AFL that has elevated Tippett to his current position of being in demand, but I wouldn't place him in the upper echelon of KPFs of the past decade. Personally, I think it's a shame that he couldn't have made his way back to his home town, where he could have made a huge difference. TC