Western Sydney needs to do the stadium shuffle

Francis park has my vote. Ad Penrith (on the north side of the railway station)

To close to ANZ and in a terrible position. It is my opinion that Blacktown (near the railway Station) is the geographical centre of the west. Aso the Richmond railway line operates into Blacktown.

We need a 45k at least, prefered 60k, and it will probably be based around liverpool, blacktown, eastern creek area. The fact is the Government is looking at reducing costs in infrastructure and unlike Melbourne Sydney is "built" differently. But te are lucky in that we already have the SCG/SFS in the east, ANZ in the middle. Now we also need a Western Sydney equivelent. Parra is to close to ANZ. This is about infastructure andlooking to what we need 10/20 years into thew future, not what your own personal club would like now. in 10years time only 4 stadiums will be used in Sydney for top grade sport. As the league, soccer and afl teams will move across to the "big" stadiums for there corporate and fan facilities.

The problem with new "ultra-modern" stadia is the lack of character and atmosphere. They also try to be too fancy and upscale. Sports events shouldn't be for fine dining and sipping wine in a luxury box, but for the common person. A basic, simple, no frills stadium, not enclosed on all sides so that people can look out and see the surrounding areas.

omg, and for heavans sake, this is doing you no good, Go GWS. is it little wonder the conversation moved on? Best afl venue in australia? I think your whole conversation would sound better if we used opposites (or positioned the terms at the opposite end at least). "The stadium cost too much money for what they got out of it, it is rarely used, and the team that uses it has used the govt in order to get their way. Its not a great stadium, but it is adequate, its not a brilliant upgrade, nor is it a brilliant stadium (and its far from the best in the country)...but given the nature of the team using it -- and that is a team that is not popular, refuses to play all its home games at the stadium that they duped the government into building for them...and can't buy support even for no lack of trying....i consider the stadium to be below average, and it suits the below average team that uses it. In fact, I am not left feeling underwhelmed by all this, ok, I am, but I will dress up the issue to try and "fake-prove" a point. I have committed the ultimate straw man argument, and will surely suffer in any reasonable, intellectual debate, and I did so out of some kind of insecurity." finally, ITS A NEW STADIUM. The old "thing" that was there wasn't even a stadium. It was one stand! A stand is NOT a stadium. Its a field. __ Buddy, we kid you not. The people of NSW feel as though it were something as wrong, groundless, and wasteful as Scientology coming in and taking their money and wasting their time....and thats putting it kindly. The GSW have done nothing but bully their way around then spit in the peoples faces they are meant to represent. Their objective is clearly to make up the numbers for the AFL's tv deal and that only...and quite frankly, any talk of them being paragons of virtue or symbols of a decent sporting team, is disgusting. You may be fooled, but most people are not.

@GoGWS, It would say that Popovic has done a remarkable job in crafting together a mixture of European players trying to regenerate their careers in Australia and a bunchof A league players that were off contract at other clubs. It would also say that the salary cap does much to keep the teams even and while that is a contentious issue it fullfills its purpose in maintaining interest in the compettion, whereas if they didn't have the cap, Victory, Sydney FC and perhaps Brisbane ROar would become the big three of the competition. It also shows that their is a wider pool of players for a new expansion team in the A league to pick from and though it contradicts my previous point, it also shows that A league teams, due to the international nature of the game, have more control over their own destiny in regards to player recruitment than an AFL or NRL club does.

@Swampy, FFA were able to plonk a team there because of the previous history of the game there. Sydney Croatia and Marconi Fairfield were giants in the old NSL. Blacktown City and Parramatta Eagles wre able to play a number of years in the NSL. Of there 4 clubs mentioned, 3 of them were able to regularly get 3 to 5k crowds in the NSL. You also have Canterbury Marrickville and Bonnyrigg WHiteagles who are or were strong state league clubs plus Sydney Olympic and Apia Leichardt from the inner west who wre also NSL giants. Paul Okon, Mark Bosnich, Johnny Warren, Brett EMerton, Tony popovic, Harry Kewell, Robbie Slater and Graham Arnold to name a few were all western sydney natives so with these roots is it any wonder that their doing better than the AFL side when that sport doesnt' have the rich history that football has. I mean it is not like Sydney or Western Sydney in particular had a rich and high quality competition prior to the introduction of an AFL team like they did in SA or WA.

Cc Ian's proposition was for clubs themselves in chip in about $2M each for a new stadium, basically as a deposit. The theory is good but as I suggested, no club from the A-League, NRL or Super comp would have $2M in the bank to chip in (a special fundraising initiative notwithstanding). I stand by that comment. The ARLC future fund is a good idea but the ARLC doesn't have the money for a stadium right now, let alone the clubs being in a position to chip in. The ARLC reportedly has $43M in the bank, after Ch.9 gave it $40M up front for the TV deal. This means there was just $3M in the bank pre-TV deal - which is staggering. Ian's right when he says the focus must be on memberships and attendances - unfortunately, the last broadcast deal reasserted the NRL as a Ch.9 TV competition and the scheduling of games almost disincentivises familiers to get off the couch.

You're kidding right? You must be. Broncos have a morgue atmosphere. Roar fans are louder for a goal kick than Broncos are for a try, in all seriousness that is a joke.

I stopped reading after 1 sentence, you took a stupid cheap shot at football and looked a complete tosser, you're opinion is as worthwhile as my scruffy dogs'. In that same sentence, you proceeded to make a completely incorrect statement, and flawed your whole argument. Jog on, loser, you're clearly bitter - this from an SFC fan.

a new stadium Skoda isn't no matter how many times you assert that it is...you may as well assert that red is blue,,,a new stadium would cost vast sums of money...it's an upgrade, and a damn good upgrade...they did a great job...best AFL venue in Australia

Anyway I have to say that Skoda is my favourite AFL venue...great facilities, great views..thanks NSW government!! :)

FHS GoGWS the state govt outlaid $40plus million doillars to revamp,update,refurbish ,improve the showground.It is still a large sum of money ,and it is still a duplication of stadiums when ANZ is nearby.After all the great non tanker, contributed a small amount to have ANZ configured to accommodate the AFL,sucking Bob Carr in. Skoda is used for a hatfull of games,and you can spin as much as you like,but if it looks like a lemon,tastes like a lemon,its a yellow citrus fruit.It is a new stadium now.It is still hardly used ,you trundle off to Canberra for 4 games . If it it so vital /essential,then play all the home games there,to justify to a small degree taxpayers' money.But the club likes the extra smell of ACT dollar bills. I will quote an extract from the Courier Mail editorial 21/2/13,not my words and not necessarily my thoughts " Its(AFL) popularity quickly opens doors into the world of politics and business for AFL executives and it has given rise to perceptions that the AFL.when it doesn't get its way,bullies and intimidates until it does.".

Skoda wasn't a new stadium though was it...it was an an upgrade...an upgrade to a venue that was sitting there more or less unused

Of course it seems reasonable, if you are a fan of that code.Scoop.Thats akin to saying Gillard is doing a wonderful job,by a Labor supporter. Any thinking person(non code aligned) would note a stadium down the road 1km thereabouts is duplication with a capital D.And IMO having a 40,000 rectangular stadium between Parra & Penrith is also duplication. And BTW just for your info Parra v St George 2/9/12 crowd 45,863.So to use your argument never getting that crowd(40,000) to a club game by Parra is again wrong. Are you serious doing the Govt a favour!! They sucked them in to Blacktown ,they got them to spend $45m on a club that hadn't even hit the paddock,playing a handfull of games only at that venue,and sucked the ACT govt to pay there.For 1 only winter code. And the stadium is still rarely used.So if the ARLC grants a few million to a new stadium in Adelaide and the State Govt contributes $50m,when Hindmarsh is available,then we can consider that, a good punt.Glad you are not handling my finances.

also the punt on Skoda seems reasonable... if the Giants half as successful as the Swans they'll be filling Skoda as they mature as a club..filling Skoda for an AFL game it might never happen but there's a reasonable chance it will...worth a punt...worth a punt for a stadium that was otherwise sitting there almost unused...the AFL did the NSW government a favour by finding a use for what was otherwise a white elephant..

The point is money was expended on a new stadium by Govt in the millions of dollars.There was no need when ANZ and the SCG are available.Which is the point of the debate and indeed part of your argument. I don't agree with another NRL stadium of 40,000,nor do I agree with a new stadium at Skoda(waste)Blacktown (waste).Where did i suggest it(40,000 stadium) was needed? I am for improving suburban grounds,roofing ANZ /Parra/and the SFS end of story. If ever a 2 nd NRL team was domiciled in Melbourne ,(who knows) I would not expect another stadium to be built full stop. Well as WSW appears to have stolen the limelight in the west,Folau tip toing around in the ru,the majority of members hailing from Canberra,I wouldn't be holding my breath regardless of their position on the ladder.Folau's presence had stuff all effect on attracting crowds.Then the Swans presence ,who are the AFL team in this city. Despite all the hype Sheedy and the large non tanker who runs the show may suggest.

Skoda does have empty seats...but in the Giants first season, almost winless, what do you expect?...when they start winning games they can have modest growth and fill Skoda with 25K crowds...Penrith, Parramatta etc have been established for decades but have never pulled 40K crowds to club games... that's the point...even the pronouncements from the ALRC about growing NRL crowds averages are only looking to get to 20K....why is a 40K ground needed...it's not needed...this is just puff from some NRL clubs (Penrith) and RL journos..

Can't use that argument for Skoda,which is continuously under capacity when it is used. Plenty of rows of empty seats.But that is OK,if if only 1 major football code uses it for a few home games. You didn't see the NRL getting anywhere near ,over $1bn,so because you don't see it happening, therefore means it wont happen.History suggests the oposite could be closer to the mark.

I think this all comes down to whether the NRL can actually start to pull bigger crowds and increased memberships at a level that justify a 40K stadium. Is there much economic sense funding a 40K stadium for a sport that may not need stadiums this size? If history is a good guide, and it is the only reliable guide we have, then any planner would really have to seriously question whether the NRL can regularly fill a 40K stadium for a club game, if ever. It's very easy for ARLC and Grant to put crowd/membership targets into business plans but to actually deliver and achieve targets is far harder. At present maybe three games a year in Sydney pull 40K+, the two SOO in NSW and the Grand Final, and these games can continue to be accomodated at Homsebush (or SFS). Maybe a few other games occasionally sell out smaller NRL venues (you would hope so given how small some NRL venues are) but are an extra 20K seats needed? I doubt it. The 'build it and they will come' approach might be useful for Hollywood movie scripts but in the real world credible stadium development proposals are based on evidence of crowds, and the elevel of confidence in additional revenue potential that extra crowds represent. In Perth, Adelaide and Sydney stadium upgrades have commenced (or are in the pipeline) that will deliver larger capacity to AFL venues in these states..and in each case you can see that the extra capacity delivered will be used (probably less so in Sydney for the Swans, but it's reasonable to expect that the SCG's extra capacity will be used for cricket and for some blockbuster AFL games). If the NRL does build this 40K stadium is it just building rows and rows of empty seats that will never be used? That's the question. Realistically you'd want a situation that we see in Perth, or even Adelaide, where people are missing out on going to AFL games and there pent up demand... that situation doesn't exist for the NRL in Sydney, not yet anyway. I think talk of a 40K stadium is very premature..I don't see it happening.