Hughes flops in Australian cricket struggle

Renegade, You clearly state that any International form, whether ODI or Test, is a better form guide than Sheffield Shield, by implication the only way to force your way into the Australian Test team would be through ODI for rather than Sheffield Shield. The dominant Australian team we had is NOT the norm and therefore should not be used as the pro-type for team selection. If Hughes wants to learn how to play spin perhaps he should do what Matthew Hayden did and go and learn from the Indians how to play spin. Once again, Sheffield Shield stats are the starting point for Australian Test team selection NOT all that needs to be considered but those who don't want the players who have performed consistently well at Sheffield Shield need to make a clear and logical argument why they shouldn't be included, especially at a time when the NSP appear to be using your method and we are doing so poorly. The reality probably is that Ponting would have been useful in India, no express pace to test his slowing reflexes. If the Sheffield Shield isn't the best indicator of Test options then we need to take a close look at how its being run because it most definitely should be.

That does not fix the problem. How is Phil Hughes going to learn to adapt to the indian conditions and bat against spin by playing another 3 seasons in sheffield shield.....he is already the best batsmen in that competition. I didn't mention anywhere that ODI form is more relevant that test matches....i'm saying that international form (ODI & Test) is far more relevant than state form (Shield & Ryobi). People have mentioned henriques shield stats as an indicator that he shouldn't be playing test cricket for Australia. What should hold more weight is his sublime debut at test cricket level. " I’ll take Sheffield Shield form over ODI form as the starting point for picking a test team, because of the different mental application required." This is a perfect example of the over analysis on cricket these days....i appreciate that they are different forms however can someone tell how come the dominant Australian team that won 3 world titles managed to virtually keep the same team for tests and ODIs. Yes there is a different mental application required however it's cricket. Look at George Bailey's "mental application" during his ODI innings this past summer. That has been a great example of how to accumulate runs in all forms of cricket. Well we would have to disagree then...i still put George Bailey's One Day International performances in Australia and abroad ahead of anything that anyone has done in shield cricket. I again point to Ricky Ponting as the absolutely perfect example of the massive gap in skill required between state and international level....this is the same ponting that was getting out for nothing at international level only a few months ago and is now averaging 100 at state level.....why don't we put him on a plane to India???

If Clarke bats at 4, that suggests one batsman will be dropped. But who? Warner: struggled so far, but enough runs in the bank. Won't be dropped because this tour is a learning experience for a talented, young batsman still growing into his long-form game. Cowan: made starts and shown signs of adjusting, but has done this throughout his short career, and only one century to show for it. Looks like he won't be able to make the jump to Test level. Hughes: limited technique works in pace-bowling dominated domestic cricket, but is exposed by good spin bowling. Looks very low on confidence. But also has youth and talent on his side. This tour will be seen as a learning experience for a player of the future. Watson: made starts, but gotten out to soft dismissals. Probably won't be dropped because selectors will want him to get his batting sorted out, hoping that he'll return to bowling by the Ashes. I can't split Hughes & Cowan as the batsman to go but think it should be Cowan given he has had 15 matches in a row. Watson to open or #3; Khawaja at #5 and i said it before the tour that you need Khawaja at 6(Hussey endorsed him as well) but we put Wade at 6 which made our batting weaker.

Phil needs to watch how Pujara and Clarke batted. Soft hands. Phil's is trying to break the ball by going so hard outside off stump.

I was trying to cheer you up! I actually like Hughes and want him to succeed at no.3, it's obvious for the moment that we have to protect him from the subcontinent but it's not like there aren't another hundred Aussie cricketers who have all failed in India.

A bit uncalled for Red Kev Phil should be withdrawn and sent to England with immediate effect. Get Khawaja in. Get Smith in(as Watson'd going home?) Get Clarke up to 3.

No wonder he gets so confused about his footwork

Also as has been repeatedly posted hasn't played as well as Cowan over the last 13 tests and in no way deserves a spot on current form. Cowan fails again but it looks like he is gonna top score in an innings defeat.

By your ODI theory Watson should be in brilliant form. Remind me how he's going recently? From memory, you weren't overly happy the other day when I pointed out that Cowan's recent Test form, yes Test not Sheffield Shield, was better than Watson's so on recent performance Watson should be dropped before Cowan. Is recent ODI form more relevant that recent Test form? I'll take Sheffield Shield form over ODI form as the starting point for picking a test team, because of the different mental application required. Because of Hughes' unique technique he has fairly evident weaknesses that are exploited by better bowlers and that should be considered, after comparing Sheffield Shield stats, before selecting a test side. Given Hughes' history I completely agree that his return has been rushed, he should have been required to perform in Sheffield Shield for at least 3 seasons before even being considered and brought back through Australia A.

They obviosuly were not planning on winning this test. Nathan Lyon leads the victory song. What happens if they pull off a miracle? Puppy is about the only certainty in the team. Maybe he should sing the song to himself in the corner. He is WINNING. the rest are LOSING. The Big Show. Give me a break.

First Class form is the be all and end all of selecting players for the Test team. First Class form includes Test form. Test form when spinners have things in their favour seems a little lacking. He deserved his recall. He deserved to be going to India. Unfortunately he has failed in India in Quineyesque fashion (except without Victorians telling us how "polished" he looked). I would have him for England at this point, and given the squad he probably has to stay in for the third and fourth Tests in India.

Its like a 90's England team all over again.

Yeah fair point Matt F. Maybe my frustrations didn't allow me to convey the message as well as i had planned. Yes i understand that ODI and Tests are different formats but what i'm saying is in terms of cricket the skill required when you play at international leve in either of these formats is the still the same. The comparison of stats at shield level against a player's international record is just ridiculous. One is obviously playing at a higher level. Take Phil hughes for example, he is struggling big time in India and should be dropped for the next test to work on his technique against spin and familiarise himself with dustbowl pitches. If he goes back to shield however, it's the same situation he will dominate the competition and show he is a class above everyone else at state level and it won't strenghten his batting in unfamiliar conditions such as asia because he won't have the experience. Ricky Ponting is a great current example of how big the gulf is between State and International level. I would still use George Bailey's performance at international level although in a ODI match as a better guide than say Glenn Maxwell's sheffield shield average for test selection.

Nah Chris Martin to Hughes is like McGrath to Atherton So he is both the Cullinan to Warne and the Atherton to McGrath

His weakness against Chris Martin was before he went back and worked on his game though. Until he faces a good fast bowling unit we won't really know how successful he has been at rebuilding his technique.

"I’m sure someone will say, you are confusing ODI with tests" and they would be 100% correct in telling you this. While the two are by no means mutually exclusive they clearly require different skill sets. Bailey's knock in Adelaide was great and a test-style innings but it was one innings. Most of his other knocks are very much one day innings. Plenty of batsmen have played the odd good innings but the key to succeeding at the top level is to do so consistently. Of course some players are able to excel in multiple formats but others aren't. You only have to look at the different players that play in each format for most nations to see that the specific formats count. Using your logic then George Bailey should be dominating FC level because his ODI form shows he's clearly such a good player. Why isn't he? Clint Mckay is our best ODI bowler because he bowls a tight, defensive line and the pressure to score runs forces the batsman into playing loose shots. They could see him off at 2-3 runs an over but that puts them well behind what they need in an ODI game. 2-3 runs an over is fine in test cricket and batsmen could comfortably see him off. Saying that I wouldn't have a major issue with picking Bailey, that first paragraph was more a general point. There aren't many people making runs in FC cricket so I'd be happy with giving Bailey a chance. I've also been a critic of Khawaja at FC level and think he's been massively overrated by many people here. He has talent but people have spoken of him like he was averaging over 60 when in fact he was averaging 39. I agree with you re Hughes. I'd pick him in the Ashes, though consider leaving him out for the next test in India. He's better at facing pace then spin so England will be better for him. I've said for a while that I think we're a better chance of winning in England than winning in India. This is because our main weaknesses (bowling spin and batting to spin) are more of an issue in India because of the conditions. While I'm sure that England will get their pitches to turn a bit we won't see anything like what we saw in Chennai. Fast bowling will be more important and that will play to our strength

He the only backup 'batsman' left in the squad- gotta be better than Hughes who has contributed exactly zero in the 4 test innings in India so far- I wish there was a better option, I really do.

My guess is that unless he gets a hundred in each innings he'll make way for Golden Boy when he rejoins the team.

As has repeatedly been posted over the last two weeks Watson is going home for the birth of his child.

It is the starting point and few people did not want him selected for this tour. But now he has been found out