A-League season must be extended to help Socceroos

Cheers jb

AR- Thank you for the reply. Just for your information. It is doubtful if there is a person in the heirarchy of the FFA, 2005-2013 who had any part in the changeover to "summer soccer" for, as I said, it took place in season 1989/90 but was being talked about as early as 1984. Even Frank Lowy,the present No.1 in the FFA had got out of football administration by then and did not make a re-appearance until requested to do so in 2004 and it has been very noticeable that since that time the FFA has markedly gone out of their way not to have any football people from those years involved in the running of the HAL. Hope this is of some use to your thought procsss. Yours jb

Fair enough. I was referring to the later start of the ALeague in season 2011/12 so as avoid completely the clash of the other codes' finals. The FFA and ALeague repeatedly said that the reason for the move was for "clear air" and to get maximum hype (print space) for the season launch.

AR - I think you and I are on totally different wavelengths on this topic.In your original statement you said "the entire competition was moved to a later date in summer for this very reason" then stated " it was fact" without spelling out what you meant by "it".. I read that as meaning the powers moving football from winter to summer which actually happened in 1989/90 and has been "tweaked" on several occasions since then to facilitate different factors,larger league, two leagues, back to one league as examples.This actually makes your "praise" of the FFA totally irrelevant.The FFA only came into being in 2004/5. some 15 years after "summer soccer" was first played, and that too is a fact.. In this area the trusted "Wikipedia" misleads people like yourself somewhat for in their description they say that one of the main reasons was to try and generate more media coverage than they would get in winter. As one who was actively engaged in pushing for the change I can assure ou this was a very minor consideration in the minds of those proposing the change. My comment on the recent ads was made simply because, as someone who has in the last 2 years been in Hong Kong Beijing,New York Vancouver,Seattle, Los Angeles ,Manchester, London and Glasgow I have yet to see a game of Aussie Rules being broadcast on popular channels, never mind generating the rapt attention of locals being depicted on these ads. As you say it was irrelevant to the topic but I feel an interesting (and factual) observation nevertheless. As someone who likes "facts" I don't go along with the wool being pulled over anyone's eyes especially youngsters who may not know any better. ok? jb

Oh dear...talk about clutching at straws. Look, it doesn't really matter but I'm not sure why you'd deny that the ALeague season was shifted to avoid clashing with the AFL/NRL. “Football needs its own clean airspace and it belongs at the start of October." - ALeague CEO, Lyall Gorman. http://tensport.com.au/news/theroar/Football-Innovation-instilled-in-A-League-draw.htm "after consultation with our clubs and stakeholders, the view was taken we would benefit from moving the season back to start in clear air” - FFA CEO, Ben Buckley. http://www.theroar.com.au/2011/05/05/a-league-to-start-in-october/ It goes on and on... http://au.eurosport.com/football/hyundai-a-league/2010-2011/a-league-to-start-later_sto2817515/story.shtml "Previously, dwindling A-League crowds had been attributed to the clash with other codes as media coverage in the competition was buried." http://www.goal.com/en/news/14/asia/2011/05/31/2511076/football-federation-australia-release-the-draw-for-the-2011-12-a- "The season start has been pushed back two months to avoid a clash with the NRL and AFL final series and allow maximum exposure." http://www.theherald.com.au/story/470835/jets-welcome-regular-home-games-in-2011-12-a-league-draw/ Do I believe Buckley and Gorman...or Fussball? Hmmm. Now, you can stand here and try to convince everyone that the sky is green, but at the end of the day, you're still wrong. Admit it, and move on.

@Australian Rules 1 – The most important driver for attendance is "the opposition". * In 2008, MVFC played ADU during the AFL finals series and it was the 5th biggest home crowd for the season. * In 2009, we played a team from another country (NIX) & NUJ (who are not a big drawcard in Melb) and the crowds were lower. 2 – Huh ... the whole discussion is based on games at the "START of the season". So, your comment clearly indicates that you agree: starting the A-League season will be UNAFFECTED by AFL, since the start of the season generates its own hype? 3 – The sophisticated statistician would analyse 2010 figures "relative to that season's figures" and, as we all know, Season 2010/11 was the worst year for A-League attendance. * In 2010, MVFC's average for those 4 games played DURING AFL season was 14.7k. All these games were at AAMI Park and MVFC's average that season at AAMI Park was 13.6k. * So, if you understand statistical analysis ... ... the average crowd at MVFC matches played DURING AFL season, was HIGHER than the average crowd at AAMI Park for the whole season. * In fact EVERY SINGLE GAME played at AAMI Park, during AFL season, had a crowd HIGHER than the average crowd at AAMI Park for the year * Overall analysis ... the average crowd AFTER AFL season was LOWER than during AFL season. 4 – You've clearly shown that you have a poor grasp of statistical analysis.

Limp response. 1 - On the one hand you say the 2010 games played at AAMI will be smaller than the season's average because that sample doesn't include any Etihad games. But then (and this is hilarious) you ignore the 2008 & 2009 games which were all at Etihad and still below the average! oops 2 - The games you highlighted were from the *start* of the season. Pretty much every football comp on the planet begins with attendances which are *above* the eventual season average...such is the excitement and hype of the season launch. This is true for the AFL, NRL, EPL and NFL. 3 - The 2010 figures of 13k, 11k etc...these are not the numbers I'd be using to prove that the biggest soccer club in the country is unaffected by other football codes. 4 - We all understand how averages work (well, I do). Obviously I haven't hand-picked 1 game and said "look it's below the average". I used the 3 or 4 games that *you* highlighted, and calculated those averages against the season average attendance. The figures speak for themselves. 5 - I'll leave you one of many articles on the issue: http://www.theage.com.au/sport/soccer/later-start-for-aleague-20110531-1fem7.html In particular, I noticed this line: "Certainly Gorman hopes that avoiding a kick-off during the dominant codes' finals series will give the league a fillip." ...of course, what would Michael Lynch or Lyall Gorman know...

@Australian Rules The 2010 games were were played at AAMI Park. Every game played at AAMI Park - during or after AFL season - will have a lower average than the annual average, which includes Docklands matches. 2008 & 2009 games: even AFTER the AFL season ended, we had matches that were below MVFC's season average .. that's the nature of AVERAGES.

As the biggest club in the country by far, Victory's crowds are less affected by the AFL/NRL seasons than others. That said, those figures still show that even Victory's crowds *were* affected. The 2010 games were 1k below the Victory's season average. The 2009 games were 5k below the Victory's season average. The 2008 games were 4k below the Victory's season average. No myth, just the facts.

Exposing the myth that AFL matches affect MVFC crowds MVFC matches played: a) at the end of the AFL season b) during the AFL finals c) day after/before AFL Grand Final ... have ZERO impact on MVFC's crowds. 2005 4/09 Olympic Park PER 17,960 25/09 Olympic Park NUJ 13,831 2006 25/08 Olympic Park ADU 15,781 2/09 Docklands SFC 39,730 17/09 Olympic Park CCM 17,617 1/10 Docklands BNR 25,921 ... the day after the biggest AFL match in the world 2007 1/09 Docklands PER 31,545 16/09 Docklands CCM 27,351 28/09 Docklands BNR 25,622 ... the night before the most important AFL match in the world 2008 29/08: Docklands NUJ 22,589 12/09 Docklands ADU 24,812 28/09 Docklands BNR 22,266 ... the day after the biggest AFL match in the world 2009 6/08 Docklands CCM 18,885 15/08 Docklands BNR 18,603 3/09 Docklands NUJ 15,168 13/09 Docklands WPX 17,644 2010 14/08 AAMI Park PER 20,358 22/08 AAMI Park NQF 13,318 12/09 AAMI Park BNR 13,792 15/09 AAMI Park WPX 11,513

A couple of points. A Cup competition does little to substantially extend the season for A-League teams. Since it is by definition a knockout competition, most A-League teams are only going to get an extra 1-2 games, and at most probably 4. This is hardly a substatnital increase to the competitive season. I for one am not going to be interested in seeing a knockout comp straight after the regular season has been completed. For me, an expanded fixture list is the best option. Not only does it benefit the national team, it makes the clubs more financially viable. All staff, including palyers, are paid per year. Increasing the number of games, instantly decreases the cost per game clubs need to recover for wages. This does of course rely on crowds not substantially decreasing in the overlap with the AFL and NRL, but I do not beleive this would be as big an issue as some might think. NSL crowds never substantially declined when overlapping with the other codes. I also refer to the 1997 grand final in Brisbane. The Strikers drew over 40k to Lang park that day, while the State of Origin game on the very next Wednesday night drew 33k, and far more than the Reds and Lions. (As an aside, I remember those numbers distinctly as it was the first time I ever felt football really does have the capacity to compete successfully with the other codes). As already mentioned, playing surface quality does become an isssue, but I think that is a minor concern in the overall scheme of things. How to expand then? Two options, increase games, or increase teams. Play every team home and away twice increases the comp to 36 weeks, or expand to 12 teams for a 33 week comp. I have no preference either way. The guarnateed oportunity to watch every team at home twice appeals to me, and short term, is the more likely option, given that there are isssues at the moment with expansion.

I wasn't expecting as standard membership, just wondering if there is an optional extra (like all Victorian based AFL teams have where 11 games is standard, but there is an option for 14-18 game memberships depending on how many games the club plays outside Victoria). Apparently there is not, as I'm sure someone like yourself would take up the extra game(s).

Jb, your comment about the AFL's recent ad is utterly irrelevant to this discussion. I didn't suggest suggest that the ALeague season was shifted to 'facilitate' the other football codes...it was shifted to facilitate the start to the ALeague season....to have some 'clear air' and enjoy the fullest amount of media coverage and marketing as possible. Launching a season in the midst of AFL and NRL finals is pretty tough. The alignment to the European season was an upshot of that decision. And to declare that untrue is 'sheer fantasy'. It's been a very good call by the FFA.

I agree that it should be left at this stage and European based players make up the June/July qualifiers,but i also think the notion the A-League would implode through disinterest in rubbish.As i stated above the NRL and Union have started and has had no effect on the A-League and opening rounds always get some of the best attendances of the season in all codes.If the A-League's regular season was extended by 3-4 weeks it would only overlap into the AFL's season few weeks and then we'd into finals.The Finals would still have strong attendances,why would a fan who has been following their side all season suddenly not at the most important time of the year?.Sure ratings would affected and media attention on tv and print would be less but football fans in Australia generally don't use mainstream media as a source for A-League information anyway.

It's a very short term view to try and force the expansion of the A League with more fixtures and/ or teams just to suit the Socceroos. This same mad rush to expand the HAL almost killed it a few years ago. My view is that in the short term the health of HAL is more important than the health of the Socceroos, if it came down to one or the other. A strong viable and organically growing HAL is vital. If it means the Socceroos miss out on the next WC (very unlikely) so be it. HAL is at a critical point and messing unnecessarily with fixtures (ie trying to squeeze more in) may result in another backwards step. HAL is only in its 8th year and at the moment supplies a handful of players for the Socceroos. I want HAL to grow to the point where it is supplying most of the Socceroos...this will obviously take time and proper nurturing with organic growth...not some mad rush to throw in extra fixtures which may well cause have a significantly detrimental effect on our league. The FFA Cup yes...but to throw in another 10 fixtures at this stage is madness.

Australian Rules -As one who was heavily involved in the suggestion that our top football be brought into line with the rest of the world I can assure you that your suggestion that it was moved to facilitate AFL.NRL,or RU is sheer fantasy. There were many other factors to be considered and what you suggest was the main one is "way off beam" I can assure you. Football has to consider the worldwide connotations as to when it's top competition is played for our national team can be made up with many players plying their trade in Europe &,Asia so if our local competition had to create an environment where local youngsters could progress without travelling 12,000 miles it was imperative that the starting point be made the same as the rest of the world.That was the underlying motivation behind football's move to summer, nothing to do with crowds etc, that was simply a marketing exercise for organisations in general,and probably why your latest ads are trying to convince Australians that there are people in Spain,America and China who are enthralled with the "Australian game" while most Australians ,many of whom are now travelling the world, know the whole theme of the ads, to be utter hogwash, ie a marketing exercise. jb

Some very good discussion points in this offering.for it is obvious NUFCMVFC has had his thinking cap on and not his tongue proverbially sticking through his cheek when constructing his opinion.He points out some facts re, TV money and programming influences,ground availability etc all very good factors that are not referred to in the original article. However when he gets into the "FFA Cup" format he may have hit upon a solution for if such a competition was framed to be played during winter and, for the "lucky" few, carried over into the summer then perhaps it could borrow it's timing from the European competitions ( all formats) and play such games on a Wednesday evening. The problem is not new ,for back in the '70's Rale Rasic had exactly the same quandry,finding game time for his players in the then "off season".His team was picked totally from local players,part-timers,who,having finished their season were back earning a living when the World Cup came around in the Northern summer,another reason behind our move to "summer soccer" as it came to be known jb

But footballs of national importance yours isn't that important on the whole for australia as a nation, no international profile not that relevant .

Well not really the same in Sydney,both of the best Rugby League and Union competitions in the world started last week,the WSW drew a bigger crowd than their League counterpart Parramatta.Did Sydney fc's crowd plummet?,their last crowd was up on previous weeks i think you'll find.I don't think A-league fans would turn their backs on their clubs as much as you'd like to think.

3 games maybe...but the entire competition was moved to a later date in summer for this very reason. Not my opinion, just the facts.