There's more to David Smith's crowd plan than meets the eye

almost 52,000 it actually beat the swans v gws game the next day which drew 23,000

you cut the amount of games you lose massive mounts of money you can't have it both ways.

Weather and time has a lot to do with it.So far this weekend 3 sellouts.Yet we get the media driven code in crisis mantra ,Coffs harbour crowd.Accentuate the negative to sell print. Smith alluded on Thursday evening to the fact, the code(head office) will receive income of $400m and expenditure of $350m this year 13.A $50m surplus .He noted last year the NRL actually had a $3m loss,which surprised me. I think you see alot more expenditure on grassroots,international at times,and club assistance re games,from now on.Fingers and legs crossed.

Another issue which is touched on by other Roarers here is the time/day of the game. The Good Friday game Dogs vs Bunnies was at 4pm and 40,000 people, lots of families and yes there was a jumping castle. Day time suits spectators - night time suits TV ratings....

Competition is flawed. 22 rounds over 25 weeks doesn't even work. Should be a 15 round competition or 30 round comp. Home/away face each team once/twice! It's pathetic how some teams get such an easy draw, or is supposed to be... It's all about ratings!

100% agree with you turbodwed, 22 round over 25 weeks with 3 x SOO rounds. Test match on Wednesday night week and a half after origin 3. NZ to play matches against Aus A and Pacific islanders in SOO rounds 2 and 3 to battle arm them for Australia test match.

*dont know why this is here, its in reply to the 'too many teams in sydney bit.' i do agree with this too, however its much harder to solve if indeed it needs solving when the evidence is brought in. not taking away from it; i just want to add, the entertainment options and my post below if you read it (you can hardly miss it, its so big) go a ways to helping out this over supply problem by introducing further attractions and emotionally-bonding episodes around the game directly relating to clubs.....no it won't bring out massive crowds, but it can go a long way to improving the rl experience and feeling a part of something. (just dont be shy of merging sydney city and cronulla some day, and possibly two western teams. Ever played that cool game Crusader Kings 2? Ok, not really a game, a sandbox, which interest me greatly.....well you can make larger countries from smaller regions by marriage and royalty and succession.... I am PROPOSING :) ok, that we succeed wests and parramatta and/or penrith to create Western sydney rugby league. god dang it, why not? Give it 10 years , support it, and watch it succeed. The GWS aint going no where, rugby league may need to evolve...

im of a mind of this too, and I have later written a reply around entertainment. you tell it exactly, such is why I believe that the entertainment surrounds, ect could be used as a driver of rugby league culture and value, thus indirectly increasing crowds.

god i hope that bombers crap never gets up, they along with wa "pirates" are some of the worst expansion bids i've seen. Brisbane is so pro broncos that it's become a major strength of the game. A second team based in inner Brisbane and playing out of Lang Park is only going to weaken the Broncos support rather than bring anything new to the table, similar to Melbourne Heart's leaching of Victory support in the A-league. The Ipswich bid is the only one with real potential. It is a rugby league area, it has high growth rate and it has a point of geographical and social-economic differentiation from Inner Brisbane. Their community presence could stretch all the way from Toowoomba and the Lockyer valley to Inala and Logan. If a proposed boutique stadium gets backing and the team actually played IN ipswich, there is the potential for a big west vs the rest derby which could become one of the NRL's biggest fixtures.

A long post below about experience, but here, a short post about an innitiative some people have touched on: lets imagine that YOU were going to the game and so was your son and something crops up during the week, ect. * I once had an innitiative i could really go for. It was : as any pair of adults, you can take in with you as many as 5 kids, and you only pay for 2. This means your sons are at school, and he has a friend, and our son wants to goto the game, but the friends parents dont want to pay for him and well neither do you (maybe) -- your son can still invite his friend and you can all go. __ And I am sure situations like this happen a lot, or are prevented from happening due to cost.....but are not kids the future? Why are we denying people the experience of a rl match?

Their crowds are about the same or worse, yet they would never consider compromising the competition for the sake of raising crowds statistics. the amount you would lose from the weekly ticket sales (including pre paid season tickets) and fox money would unlikely be recovered from an increase in average crowds.

some good things on this page. I just want value to increase and time being emmersed into the culture of rugby league and the experience to increase along with quality of that emmersion. Before it all:!! THREE things you need to do when showing ladies, and the public a good time: you need to snap them out of their existing experience.....2 you need to not give them a choice to "feel better", sometimes you need to fight their down mood, and 3, you need to smile and put your best intentions out there, you need to lead as the Host, entertainer. Disclaimer before I start this created and new level of experience walk-thru..... : I love league and I find it perfectly ok to goto the game as it is now, but I can see how we could do more to enhance that experience, to expand on the emotions and anticipation and involvement of the day, how we could impress young kids more, and adults alike....ect -- and show this country something it has not seen before. ___ I want kids to be involved, for there to be about 3 matches on game day, and for people to encouraged to get there a little earlier so the kids can play, be able to get down on the feild at some point, for it to be cheaper than it currently is, and for the loudspeakers to keep quiet unless playing the team song. ***********This is all abstract by the way, I dont actually know exactly what I want.******* - I want the experience more managed by the ARLC and standardized, and substantially better than it is now. I don't really want to be bombarded by advertisements, I want to enter the rugby league fraternity and spend some time there. ___ I will suggest that Smiths idea came from 2 areas, and both are key. 1 the idea to have something bigger, and 2, be more cohesive and involved - proving better bang for your buck __ Never say never with rugby league and crowds and being affected by tv. you just have to be smart about how you set things up. people do need to get off the couch more. Live against the gate is a luxury we take for granted. Maybe they need to strike a balance against that, I dont know. For the begining there are so many options we have not done yet, lets move on them. we have all heard of them by now whats the point of going over them again, from stadia rationalization to teams working together to members and family benefits in pricing and accessibility, ect, to addressing specific logistical issues for certain games. __ About smiths' ideas, when I was a kid I had a dream at age 10 or 11 about a massive stadium in brisbane and outside was like a massive shopping center complex and before the game (it was building up inside) we were walking through it on our way to the stadium and it was a hive of activity and the excitement was palpable; there was entertainment, a market, games, and big tvs like those I'd only seen at Grid Iron stadiums out front.....it was a cacophony of noise and entertainment; then the game started and we were late and we could not wait to go up the many levels of the stadium to our seats, then I woke up, having never seen the game. To this day I just remember peering over the edge of the view at the crowd and wanting to be a part of it. ... real dream within 20% of my memory, 1990, i think I took cues from old lang park. ::::::>>>>> So when smith said about bands and activity, it all fit in for me. This is why I am fond of stadia like Citi Feild, its so immersive. Given, soccer for instance is slower paced and the brain has more time to get absorbed in your emotions and feelings around you -- you can ****access that mindstate during the game **** - But league is so fast paced you don't get time to think during the game, you don't get enough time to access and delve into those emotions during the game, so I think "supporting" acts are a good way to get that emersive experience pumping. - its ok for me to have bands marching round the place outside playing the team song or some such -- I think it could lead to more chanting and singing during the games. - I want supporters encouraged to chant and not just on the loud speakers. We need to get them into a mood. - I dont mind jumping castles for the kids outside, ect, I want people to arrive earlier and spend some time around the stadium moving about before sitting down, have a rugby league market, have competitions, have a walk onto the field, have a tour, do whatever.....lets extend the day for people. - How about injury/down time? There is an extra 5 minutes of time. Don't stop the clock as much. We want to extend the match-time. Dont worry about tv and fitting it in, let them fit into us. ___ So I want the value to go up. ____ How about a competition to win supporter gear at the ground? This to my mind is more about access than it is about fun, even though it includes it. We want access, price, value, emotions, learning how to cheer your team, learning your team songs, having rugby league show you an experience to be high on the list. We want to embrace people and show them a new rugby league way. How about a rugby league museum at some grounds or on some days? How about former players doing drills outside, and how about we take the TV guys out of the studio more? How about we have TV presenters walking around the stadium? How about we take EVERYTHING and mix it in with the day, crossing the emotion and joining up the networks of people. Lets really add that game day experience and heighten it. We want to impress kids, encourage support, encourage attendance, make it affordable, and involve as many people as we can. Imagine walking up to Suncorp stadium and there is all that stuff happening around it, or up the front of ANZ stadium? Be ENVELOPED and emmersed and submersed and impressed by the impact of rugby league on your day -- and rise the anticipation to the match, and when you get there -- you are greeted by fans who are more dedicated, more willing to cheer and more willing to support and return. ___ So I can see why Smith said what He said. As I said, I had a dream when I was 10, and I am not lying, I can see where smith is going, and I have always been a little jealous of american sports and the atmosphere. RL is too short to get soccer-like support off the bat, lets help it out. Lets expand the emotion and drive and emmersion of the rugby league culture and spirit -- and where it does not exist -- lets create it. - Von Neumann P.S I also want kids to receive supporter packs when young, subsidize jerseys and give them balls and a kit to play rugby league. I do not want any of this commercialized or marketed, its a rugby league in house experience and I don't want adverts.

That is why i say make it free to get in, and free public transport to and from the game. Like Brisbane do to games at Suncorp. You can travel anywhere in Queensland for free if you are going to a game at Suncorp. So if you lived at the coast, you travel for free, yes free. So if you made it gfree for famileis with 2 or more kids, then their is no longer any excuse for Sydney. And this is what i want to see. If nobody turns up then cut 4 teams out of Sydney overnight and lets grow this game without Sydney holding the game back. So far Brisbane, well Queensland has got 4 areas screaming, absolutely crying out for teams. Central Queensland with 100 million in Sponsers, Brothers Football Club, with a 200 thousand supporter base already in place. The Bombers, who have investors lined up like you have never seen before. I think Clive could be one, and the Ipswich City Jets,. A rugby league heartland. Then you have Perth and NZ could field another team. Now any businessman with any common sense whatsoever would be a fool, a complete dill not to take these million, tens of millions, hundreds of millions dollar offers. You want to say otherwise, while cronulla and Penrith and the Tigers rot, yes rot on the vine. Are you that fool. Back to you Smithy, and Toddy.

Turbo , the way you say things sounds like we are giving the game away. Mate, read this, FREE FOR FAMILIES. Now read this, free for families when the seats are empty. Must have 2 or more kids to be allowed in and only seated behind the posts. Games will be alloted to anyone who wisges to attend in advance. You must register. See, it is your bull at the gate comments that do damage, not the fact ITISFREE. Even a play on words can confuse, you always seem to play the negative. That is what is wrong with this code, And Dave Smith showed by catching out Ray Hadley, how much the media and bad reporting is hurting this code. Bull at the gate reporting, negative reporting. Their is a guy who sits next to Ben Iken that also is negative to the point of dangerous. He not only wants to get rid of City Country, but also Anzac and Origin. He might as well get rid of Origin, you start getting rid of all the other games fans will walk away as they have done now because of negative reporting. Look no further than the Dogs Chooks game, this is what happens when you negative report all the time. This game has got to get rid of this, i dont see other codes doing this on a weekly basis, daily basis some times.

Yes, but our crowds are so-so. They are not a disaster, but we can easily lift our NRL average crowd figure. Easily.

TW, Thats true but theres zero chance of that happening they will certainly hang on to penrith and there will be a riot if Cronulla goes unless they relly go bankrupt - they have been bundled out of problems before eg in 1975 at least I can remember. Canberra would be waving the white flag to the Brumbies and AFL

They used to put St geoege against Raiders at night in winter in Canberra during SOO so Canberra's record against them looks great....There is zero reason to have games at night in Canberra in winter; Brumbies have finished - there are plenty of other slots, 5.30 Saturday, 2PM Sunday but I guess they will never get the 3PM game.

Agree with Moonshine. Its funny how everyone talks about rugby league crowds. It is one sport which is definitely better on TV. On TV the cameras are zoomed in on the play the ball, and only show a very small portion of the field. This gives the impression that everything is happening at 100 miles an hour. Another trick used in SOO is to have cameras do the moving. As the spider cam races across the surface, even the play the ball looks exciting. At the ground the game is its true two dimensional self.

Perhaps if the NRL didnt schedule so many games at night when it is -2 degrees in Canberra more would turn up!

Moon, are you telling me we cannot improve NRL crowds in Sydney!? I bet we can easily! If we were ruthless about it we would shift Penrith and Cronulla out of Sydney. Let those teams move to Brisbane and Perth. This would generate an automatic AWAY following when they visit Sydney. Also, drop the season to 22 or just 20 games. All of these measures would lift average crowds. You might also give the Canberra Raiders an ultimatum too, coz our crowds are woeful.