What now for Karmichael Hunt?

He'd get a game at Melbourne in a heart beat. Even the biggest names at that club are spineless.

He's better than a lot. Israel wasn't bad... he just didn't care enough to try. I reckon there are players worse than Hunt getting around in the AFL who don't cop anywhere near the criticism and don't bring in half the attention that Hunt is payed to do.

Sorry 1 reply to Josh mentioned stats - hardly meets the requirement of "shuffling between."

Can't see where I quoted any stats here.

Stu are you just trying to wind up Macca again? Poor guy spent the whole day Tuesday shuffling between ROAR dialogues and his stats book. That's what footy does to people!

So in the world of Black & White you are saying you don’t know why he doesn’t have the ability or the smarts to play Aussie Rules? Are you saying being directly involved with the club would educate you better of what you don’t know about a particular player? Would you claim that weak data cannot be improved if by your possibilities the combinations I provided cannot be corrected? Just so I understand the critique levels,do you care to share on this sports forum those athletes who you claim aren’t mentally tough? ( For your assistance I'm putting hunt at the top of your list reason being I'd prefer you not to use my evaluation rather your own) Taking Aussie Rules out of the equation & using your own experience where exactly in the second code was he not successful? Using the combinations discuss in my first paragraph where was he not successful in the second code? You claim he can play Aussie Rules but not at this level, are you saying with patience he can evolve into a AFL player? Are you also saying he doesn't have the smarts & ability to play at a lower level. No I'm overseas, I believe you'll find there's no link of me claiming he came back to early. My reply reads "he was injured then got re-injured". Did he sustained an injury during the crows game? Did he play the following week? Did they diagnose the injury correctly? Did he finish the game when he returned? Did he play last week?

I would love to see him at the Rebels terrific footballer with a good head on his shoulders, he should stop wasting his talent in AFL and come down to Melbourne and play rugby, barring that I reckon he should return to league.

Did you see this in the article on Hunt today - "His last senior appearance came against Adelaide at the end of June after a lengthy hamstring injury lay-off and Hunt could only pick up two possessions before being subbed out at three-quarter time. Since then Hunt has been forced to play for the club’s reserves and now faces another lay-off due to a calf injury" So again how did hew come back to early?

Toa - "By your logic he’s not a smart footballer & doesn’t have the ability because he’s all brawn & no brains? he lacks basic skills? or he cannot convert & process instructions very well?" Possibly a combination of all 3, not being involved in the club it's hard to say exactly why he isn't any good but it isn't because he isn't physically strong enough and you assert he is mentally tough so a combination of those thins you listed is probably the most likely. Whatever is the cause the results speak for themselves. "Surely anybody with enough respect would appreciate how difficult it is to maintain mental fitness to play at the highest level. Correct?" There are many players currently playing at the highest level who I wouldn't call mentally tough - and Hunt hasn't exactly been successful in 2 of his 3 codes. "Now by putting everything together are you saying he’s completely incapable of playing Aussie Rules? and your adamant he hasn’t or will not evolve as Aussie Rules Player? correct?" No he can play Aussie Rules - just not at a level good enough to play it in the AFL - and if you looked at the stats you would see that.

Do you think your first paragraph is slightly exaggerated? Macca, help me understand what your preaching, By your logic he's not a smart footballer & doesn't have the ability because he's all brawn & no brains? he lacks basic skills? or he cannot convert & process instructions very well? You may recall from my earlier reply that I mentioned i have never met him, so tell me why would you rely on my evaluation when its a known fact by the age of 24 he already played 3 codes at the highest level. Surely anybody with enough respect would appreciate how difficult it is to maintain mental fitness to play at the highest level. Correct? Additionally you mention "he isn’t big enough to be a key position player, isn’t good enough defensively to play on a small forward, doesn’t kick enough goals to play forward and doesn’t get enough of the ball to play in the midfield" Now by putting everything together are you saying he's completely incapable of playing Aussie Rules? and your adamant he hasn't or will not evolve as Aussie Rules Player? correct?

Toa - That's great a player can get zero possessions week in week out but as long as he is mentally tough you'd still rate him as a player!! And yes they do say the game is 80% mental but that doesn't mean that having the right attitude is rated better than performing - it means that performing requires you to be switched on and smart - Hunt may have mental determination and he is a physically fit person (when he isn't injured) so why are his results so poor - because he isn't a very smart footballer (plus he just doesn't have the ability), hence even if we ignore stats he fails on your own scale. And there are any number of blokes playing at any number of levels that are mentally tough however very few of them get through to the AFL level. So hats off to Hunt if he is in fact a mentally tough bloke (having not met him I'll have to take your word for it) but that doesn't make him a good footballer and that is the over riding issue here - is he good enough to play for the Suns. And again you can believe in patience but Hunt at almost 27 and with better players evolving around him doesn't have that luxury.

Macca, I find it difficult for you to label this as a mutual discussion. You’re countless & heavy criticism against this footballer resembles Athletic Cleansing, which sees no end unless he leaves the code or is not mention within the AFL framework. I’ve never discuss tactics or stats, my support lies within the psych of that particular player. Why? Everyone & their dog dissect their numbers from the weekend assignments, however for me I’m interested on how their developing mentally. As they say the game is 80% mental & 20% physical. There are merits in your evaluation of Hunt and from your data it seems he’s out of reach. This is where our difference laid, your data & their mental ability to find a way. So for me it’s not about numbers it’s about respecting their psychological ability …..It’s been my foundation for this case from day one it’s not just about Hunt but every other athlete that’s face with a challenge ….. Though that’s not to say nobody should critical but sometimes it’s a) too easy b) I’m no better c) there are enough opinions out there already. I’m not going to argue the point about stats, to me it’s irrelevant. What’s important is every player distributes well & has given the tools to execute mentally hence why I believe in patience. Finally, your prediction of Hunt may be right but I’m willing to bet that the only reason why he won’t progress will be either he loses faith in the support system (or they lose faith in him) or he becomes mentally fatigue. To be honest I thought he would have blown out by now however I guess that’s why I’m so intrigue by his story or any other that’s similar ….yes he's getting paid well & yes both external & internal pressures are to be expected, personally I could never do it myself and if it were that easy there would be more of them.

Toa - Again making no judgements but the fact that english isn't your first language is probably the reason your writing style is strained and I haven't been able to discern the point I have supposedly proved to you twice. If instead of taking offence you answer my question and discuss my point this discussion could be more mutually beneficial.

Apologise if I didn’t make sense however English in my house is a second language, did you want me to translate in my own language? Would that be more appropriate for you?

Just a freudian slip then. And don't care to elaborate on the point at which you will concede, or how you have backed away from your preseason confidence or how those inclusions to the list like Broughton & O'meara haven't jeopardised Hunts position, or how despite Hunt's "Shane Battier effect" on the team they win more often without him? Probably not I suppose - some people find it hard to admit when they got it wrong.

No.

Where did I insult your intelligence? I merely stated your writing style was strained and I lost your point - that doesn't mean you are unintelligent! But being unable to grasp that concept, refusing to answer a direct question, by writing that last sentence which doesn't make any sense and again failing to refute my argument that Hunt doesn't have the luxury of time you may have brought your intelligence into question all by yourself, however I am making no assertion on the topic. To get back on to the point Hunt will be 27 in November - Chris Judd who is almost 30 has been accused of being well below his best this year and queries are raised over how long he can keep playing - not many players go too far past 30 these days and those that do are generally elite. Given that it isn't unreasonable to say that Hunt is entering the years when most AFL footballers start to fall away and he is yet to reach any heights his time in which to improve is limited and patience can not be afforded him.

Brilliant, thank you confirming my point about you……….By the way you’re only too happy to insult my intelligence so by you contradicting yourself by playing the man and not the ball use your astuteness to figure out my point.

Interesting Josh the email of your post shows "Not yet" but you amended it to "No" - are you having some misgivings you are reluctant to admit to? And at what point would you concede? Hunt will be 27 in 4 months - Chris Judd will be 30 in 2 months and many have said this year that his powers have declined and he may only have a year or two left in the game - it doesn't leave Hunt much time (as I have tried to point out to Toa) to improve. Also Jack Martin will come in next year (he is apparently dominating in the 2's) along with another round of draft picks and the current list will have another pre-season behind them - it isn't going to any easier for him to get a spot.

And what point is that exactly - for all your attempts to be perceived as intellectual your writing becomes particularly strained and your point is lost. Also I am objectively discussing Hunt and you seem to want to focus on me - it seems to be the approach taken by one who knows their argument is unsustainable - play the man not the ball.