The Australian domestic code war is an issue constantly thrown around by the Australian sports media. With each new club the AFL opens in traditional NRL territories, the more fans, and children have the option to switch allegiances.
The AFL wins in memberships, crowd attendances, and national reach. The NRL wins in the international game, and by having State of Origin.
The recent television rights deals showed there is not much to split between the two in terms of what broadcasters are willing to pay. But this year there was something missing in the NRL.
Crowds were down, ratings were down, and there is no longer that feeling of hope that came with the arrival of the independent commission.
All the while the AFL continued to march on and thrive.
Maybe the consolidation of being the number two code in the country is what the NRL should be concentrating on.
Strengthening the product should be the NRL commission’s number one objective.
The appointment of Graeme Samuel, former honcho at the AFL and responsible for some of the expansion and mergers of the AFL in the 1990s is a step in the right direction.
As much as we love to think that loyalty exists in sport, there is increasingly little evidence to support it.
Players talk about a new ‘challenge’ or new beginning but at the end of the day, their paycheck has a large amount of pull in deciding where they work each year.
There is one thing that puts bums on seats and eyes on screens, and that is seeing a superstar do what he does best. A Greg Inglis, Sonny Bill Williams, or Billy Slater is a player that every team craves.
It was only a handful of years ago that people chastised the great Money Bill for being a trader and there were calls for him to never return to the game.
But look what he has done for the Roosters. They have had one of their biggest years ever, on and off the field and most importantly, they have won a premiership.
The introduction of a marquee player allowance is a no brainer.
Every club should have the opportunity to break the bank for one superstar player.
The one who can turn their club around on and off the field. Israel Folau, Karmichael Hunt, Sonny Bill. These were all league players and big names that got people and money into their team.
In the future, these types of players should never be allowed to leave.
A club should have one player completely exempt from the cap, with securities in place to ensure this allowance is not manipulated.
The NRL does recognise this and there will be some changes in the next few years – the gradual increase of the salary cap and the introduction of a partial marquee player allowance will help.
If the NRL wants to grow it needs to act now.
Sydney has too many teams. At least one club either has to leave or relocate and based on crowds I would think Penrith would be up there as a candidate, as well as the Sharks.
The NRL could have to look at how the AFL did this in 1990s as an example.
Two new clubs need to enter the competition to strengthen and widen its scope.
I believe New Zealand would be the most strategic, as it would increase its presence in New Zealand and potentially strengthen the international competition.
The next most logical would be Perth and a fourth and final team in Queensland.
The NRL suffers from a lack of foresight.
The AFL is the number one code in this country and largely because it has been run properly.
Everything about the AFL screams professionalism and the NRL has always seemed like its poorer cousin.
The commission needs to put words into action.
We as fans and followers of the game continuously hear talk, talk of expansion, talk of our ‘war chest’, talk of a record breaking television deal, but we don’t actually see any change.
2013 has been a forgettable year as far as statistics and numbers go.
The jewel in the crown, State of Origin, continues to break records but brings about a huge problem in scheduling and the quality of competition. I have not heard one suggestion that I like.
Origin needs to stay on Wednesdays, it adds to its ‘event’ feel but at the same time clubs and players needs longer gaps to ensure club fairness.
Having weekends before State of Origin scheduled as international fixtures is one idea that makes sense. It would help the international game.
Teams like New Zealand, England, France, Papua New Guinea, Samoa, Tonga, could all have friendlies played and it could bring some coverage and experience to non-NRL players.
The NRL is years behind the AFL in crowds, memberships, and administration. The AFL will always be strengthened by the fact that Aussie Rules is the one truly unique Australian sport.
It is the one tourists ask about and the one that can be recognised globally on television as our game.
Super Rugby suffers from having multiple time zones and domestic cricket is overshadowed by its international game.
Football may be the biggest threat to number two. The A-League is entering a period of growth and only time will tell how big it can get.
Maybe the NRL will never be the number one code in this country. But there are two days on the Australian sporting calendar that every Australian sports fan has an interest in – the AFL and NRL grand finals, and if it can stay that way then there is nothing to worry about.
Von Neumann
Roar Guru
I want to state something about rugby league and this thread and outside influences derailing reasoned debate in some instances. Do *not* get disheartened crosscoder. i agree with all the pro things mentioned in that post. That grand final was one for the ages, and it gives such a boost and timely reminder to everyone about the awesomeness of rugby league leading into the world cup. I face the same battles day in day out as you. I almost considered tossing it in. My facts about rugby league have slipped this year in that I can't remember everything, I have been focusing on the game more and the things like bigotry, smugness and sly sniping. I have brought across a wide range of tools from one of my other (tho to be sure, more involved and academic) pursuits - religion v science....and I see many parrallels with sport. You would be surprised to find the similarities. This smugness and death-riding and intolerance, and bigotry we see displayed in threads like this and others, are examples of closed minded people seeking to biologically (probably thru no fault of their own) suppress rugby league simultaneously while promoting and expanding their own. Human beings are war like creatures. And this ties back into xenophibia-like traits as you will see, because its a form of protectionism....which all that follows here is the opposite to open minded fair trade and co operation and tolerance. Its rooted in our biology, where expansion and suppression are common themes, in the hunter-prey sense. They are pivot points we lived with for 100s thousands of years. They are simple things of our nature. And they find extension in more complex things that came later: in religions, cults and even Oppressive states such as NKR (which is a mix of religious-cult leader worship without the Christianity element and war-like embrace) To get to that point, such as a religion or a cult or an Oppressive state - you CAN'T do that with open ideas - such as you and myself and others are presenting to such people who come here to spew disinformation. See, in our world, we would watch rl and ru and it would not bother us. But because they have closed themselves off, possibly for some paranoid reason (it will lessen the love of MY sport, ect) rooted in biology...and thats sad, because the world of sport should be enjoyed. And if you don't want to enjoy all of it - why come here just to bag rugby league. CC has given all the facts and figures, and for people to continually come in and say words to the effect of "nah thats not so" is rediculous. At some point the people here will have to accept that rugby league is GROWING, and its growing fast. No it does not have the 400k in the USA, ect, but its still growing. Its even growing in Australia - and the scary thing for them to come to terms with is that league has a LOT more growing potential to it. Brisbane 2 will be massive. Perth will be beneficial, the lower tiers being deepened and re connected closer with the top tier and each state to each other - thats huge. There's nothing like that in this country. It will be a NATIONAL tier 2. Melbourne has growth left in it. Its growing world wide with funding from euro zone, and its now in Jamaica and Canada. Player participation has gone skyward, and more people are involved in rugby league than at any other time in human history. All these things I mention, because at some point, mate, someone has come in and derided your fact, or they have come in and tried to suppress it, or expand their own sport onto your imagination. These are the things trolls love to do and its insecurity (tho i dont think they fully mean it), its just the human nature. __ Keep up the reason and open mindedness, CC - you are clearly showing them, and more importantly, you are not allowing rugby league to be assassinated in peoples imaginations anymore. Neither am I. By reducing this skeptisism and fallacious and critically-inspired angst against rugby league, we are helping our game, not by suppressing in a negative way, but by fostering the good will of open ideas and providing fairness - because when that happens Rugby League shines, because its allowed to shine. __ Now, I truly believe without trying to be antagonizing or anything else to anyone here, that Rugby League can be this country's number 1 sport. It has the growth potential, and the clubs may not be as strong financially right now - but that will and can change; and it has the growth platform, and it has room to grow. This is unlike AFL, who won't have such a luxury of a growth platform possibly ever again. AFL is almost maxed out - and growth in qld and nsw will take 20 more years........so in the meantime, this is what I mean when I say No. 1 sport : in the meantime, rugby league will be up and out in front of AFL. And I am not saying this to be dominant or anything....because I truly believe we will acheive a critical mass in this country where soccer, rl and afl are about equal nationally, but because of RL's ability to be global where AFL cannot (yet if ever), RL will have more money in it. And soccer will lack a little because it can't get the biggest/youngest stars. Thats why. And again, the difference may only be 20-25% between them, but I fully expect RL to be out in front. I dont know after 20-40 years what it will look like, but thats what I have pictured for that time period. And I also suspect this is why AFL moved in western sydney. And you got to think, this is why ARLC is eyeing off ipswich in qld. But think on this: ipswich is ready to up take the NRL more than western sydney for AFL, in terms of active support. And just think RL is more popular in melbourne already than AFL is in sydney after 30 years by many measures. Support in Perth will be well received too I think and has more growth potential than the Super Rugby ever will. __ So to get all the negativity about rugby league, I dont get it. Awesome GF, best WC coming up, State of Origin, world wide growth, home growth, professional planning and structures, best tier 2 comp, occupies the biggest markets. RL is set to explode people. You have to believe that - because its true. Thanks crosscoder, I learn much from you.
Crosscoder
Roar Guru
You nailed it in one ctar.The amount of negativity swirling around just prior to the NRL G/F was all encompassing.The daily telegraph seem to lead the way. As you stated it was one for the memory box.Even casual rl watcher friends I know,stated it was one that kept their attention for the 80 minutes. And the pre game entertainment was upthere witth the best I have seen. The game has this propensity to rise like a phoenix from the ashes,and give.
ctar
Guest
League does its talking on the field crosscoder, always has. Just Look at the grand final - apparently there was no interest in it if we were to believe a number of people on this site and a handful of Journos. Now it's the most talked about grand final since 1999. SBW has had more words written about him in 2 weeks than any sports star I can remember.
Crosscoder
Roar Guru
SportsFanMelb. Thanks your response appreciate your point of view and agree on the RLWC eligibility matters.None of my posts has suggested the eligibility system is right,in a couple of instances damn right embarassing . That being said the code has to start from square one,and Lebanon is proof positive when no locals were involved in 2000RLWC,,yet the code in that country is flourishing. In fact the match between Samoa and Tonga with NRL players this year,not only attracted decent ratings ,but was a pleasure to watch and the way the game should be played.They will feature in the RLWC. I am not pretending to be a keyboard jockey,I spend a fair whack of my spare time in a rl thread(a sport that I adopted in my 20s),defending against snipes,point scoring posts,facts and legitimate criticism which I welcome, plus just plain trolling comments,and posts by fans of AFL and ru adopting the (we are bigger mentality)and a pretentious one,suggesting I may be a 20 years old greenie with no business experience and others who plainly dislike the code(which is a democratic prerogative). In many instances posts that are dubious are let go thorugh to the keeper,unmoderated in a rl thread. To do something similar in toto on the other codes' threads,and you would not last five minutes. It is plainly obvious that not many rl fans bother to post here,because of the above ,I have on more than a few occasions thought about tossing it in,,and let the yes men take over." I decided to grow some balls, and follow the thinking of French philosopher Joseph Joubert"It is better to debate a question without settling it,than to settle a question without debating it." So whilst I retain the ability to suck in Oxygen,I will continue to offer my responses.And BTW I am not a one code follower,its just that rl is my main passion. As to the one code minded .well there are plenty who serve it up to rugby league it appears,,no names no packdrill.
Von Neumann
Roar Guru
also, regarding afl wc, they have 1 country to pick from. its an entirely different thing regarding rlwc. you can't level same amount of expectation from that. Like I said, I think at this stage having more players play in it is of more benefit to being super tight with eligibility. chuckle all you want. I don't sit around deliberating about this, I just watch the sport. But when it comes time to discuss these issues, I do actually have a clue. I would say that they are transplanting stars because they can't see the forest for the trees, they don't have the depth back home, and they want to give it a good shake. Its not perfect, but whenever somebody wants to go over there and stop them from cutting off their nose to spite their faces, it will be pretty easy. Unfrotunately, u also have stars in nrl who really want to play in the world cup, so they will look to do so any way they can. At some point that will all need to change, but we have seen when the arlc went to talk to the IRLF, to sort out qld/nsw/kiwi/kangaroo eligibility, things can get done. Because as big as the wc is for rl now, there is no need now. It will all evolve should benefit require. For the moment, I just watch it, knowing that. Its not such a big deal because of how constrained league has been under news ltd. - as in not much investment into the sport has gone out. BUt even now, leagues are growing around the world. I mean what do you want?????? A magic wand!? I chuckle, because of those realities - but BUDDY, seriously - I am not going to let those minor bull things get in the way of enjoying some rugby league. You can, tho.
Von Neumann
Roar Guru
wookie: interesting. like to know how all the figures came to this and when they were made. at the time of touch report (late year) the quotes were @ 1 million combined. like, that could mean anything or be just a rounded number, but it came from the touch association and the nrl, including smith and others. Melb sports fan. Thanks for clarification. Its great to see you actually do support and watch rl - however you have a logo and name that would suggest otherwise. Hmmmm. Dont take so harshly to others when you are met with skeptisism. There's words, and deeds. Your deeds are your name and logo. Your words claim otherwise. Its a hard high hill for you. Granted, I will give u benefit of doubt, since the consequences for doing so are negligible. I am not trying to speak against what you said, so much as to highlight a point - and that is, when you regarded the afl wc, you placed one set of expectations upon it, but you did not give the same courtesy when you appraised the RLWC - why? Y are you trying to hold it to a standard you know it can't meet? Because no one is trying to take over the world with the RLWC, we are not trying to 1 up union or even get 1 over afl. we are just having a world cup. They want to be a part of it; and as to what u ridicule about that, the international body and the arlc have done a bit to sort out the messy situation. I think at this stage having more players play in it is of more benefit to being super tight with eligibility.
SportsFanGC
Roar Guru
First things first Crosscoder and Von – I do watch RL live and on TV plenty of times during the season and enjoy the sport and everything it offers. Being based in SEQ since 2012 I have been attending games at both Suncorp and Skilled Stadium to get my fix. If you have ever read any of my comments previously I watch all footy codes and in addition to this I also watch other sports that I have an interest in and participate in (Golf, Surfing, Cricket, Surf Lifesaving). Further to this, I too think that there is great potential in the game and keenly await to see what the NRL commission come up with in regards to the structure of the competition and future broadcasting of the game (the current broadcast arrangements are a joke and stuck in a 90’s timewarp). Re: RLWC. If the game wants the event to be looked at in the future with same prestige as Soccer’s World Cup or the Rugby Union World Cup then I have a simple suggestion – fix the eligibility rules. To be eligible to play for a country you must a citizen and a current passport holder of that nation. If you wish to change the nation that you represent then you must be a citizen and passport holder of that nation for at least 3 years prior to the World Cup. Simple and there can be no confusion. If you are not good enough to represent your nation at the RLWC then too bad, it is supposed to be the best players of that country, be it USA, Romania, Fiji whoever. Those countries should not be looked at as the last chance saloon for players to go to a World Cup. What is a nation getting out of the World Cup when we are simply transplanting NRL stars into their countries representative side? Re: AFL World Cup – don’t see how this is relevant at all. They are well aware there is no world cup for the AFL and it doesn’t seem to faze them one bit. The strength (and weakness) of the code is that it is only played in Australia and the domestic competition is the key to the game, much like the NFL in the USA. It is not relevant when discussing a separate issue such as NRL players playing for countries that they have a vague ancestral link to because they couldn’t crack the Kangaroos or NZ squads. Dismiss and ridicule if you like from your keyboards, I have a chuckle at some guys on this site who are one code, one mind keyboard warriors who think only their opinion counts and often fail to objective, rather they argue emotively. It goes for all footy codes here.
The_Wookie
Roar Guru
ok a million juniors? The NRL appears to disagree. The NRL put out a release earlier this year that expects TOTAL participation across the country to hit 700,000 by the year 2017 (http://rugbyleague2013.nrl.com/PDF/NRL-Rugby-League-2013.pdf). A submission to Parliament from October last year muddies the waters a little claiming engagement for 1.4 million children to Rugby league programs, but states that junior participation was estimated at 598,000. (sourced at aph.gov.au)
Crosscoder
Roar Guru
+1
The_Wookie
Roar Guru
well written CC.
The_Wookie
Roar Guru
Theres a hell of a lot of speculation and facts without evidence here. Couple of years away from a deep crisis? EVERY key indicator is up at the moment. Club memberships rose by almost 50,000 - thats just under 10% growth right there. AFL HQ wouldnt be nervous in the slightest - particularly since Victorian ones are doing most of the growth in that area. Victorian crowds are up, tv ratings are up, memberships are up, league memberships are up. The league would be losing sleep over its Melbourne fans for sure. As for the equalisation stuff, that will get sorted before the next media deal is due in 2017. Theres been nothing private about the discussion either, it was common knowledge that the league sent people to america include Demetriou, Mclachlan and several club presidents to see what the NFL does. Getting the fixture right will alleviate much, and just yesterday the league announced a change to its beverage sponsorships that is expected to yield millions extra for the clubs from next season. oddly enough, its the well resourced clubs - including Collingwood, Hawthorn and West Coast who are leading the charge.
The_Wookie
Roar Guru
it might also be what sells papers.
Von Neumann
Roar Guru
thankyou and well said crosscoder, as I mentioned in my post above, to put it into a sentence: he is being disingenious with us all; that he is not here to talk about rugby league, rather he has come to promote his own sport at the expense of our own, thus violating his claim I am not having a 'discussion'. His idea of a discussion could be anything. Mine is talking about facts, future potential and not being skimpy about where rugby league and the blue skies ahead for it. For instance, how many of them would admit that RL has more than 1million juniors now. Also, not a single of them replied to my question "Since when is rugby league [just a] suburban comp?" See, their very line of question is ruled by agenda - they have failed before they began. Its because the come in with a premise that league is beneath them, low, not good enough. I don't expect them to able to see it straight up - but I will keep pointing it out. You cannot argue with a cultist like they are, refusing feedback from the outside world - you need ram it home, yet gently. I can openly say this here to you, with full integrity and internal congruency - because its what I am about. A genuine discussion. When I wrote what I did earlier today, just before, and right now. Been enjoying your posts too by the way cross coder. I suspect you share some of the same attitudes as all that.
Von Neumann
Roar Guru
Well sportsfan melb, I would not say that. There's 2 ways of looking at things for starters. Glass half full and glass half empty. Its NOT a discussion in the slightest when people are immediately talking in black and white (almost exclusively against rugby league's future potential), often being willfully ignorant or remaining blinded on purpose. Is it so much to make a person see the error's in their ways? The emotional attachment to your view of the world and the beliefs you have about it is strong. People don't like to shake up their beliefs about things, even when they have negative consequences; they have a set way of thinking and as a protection, thats that. Fear of change is a strong demotivator for change. People like to be comfortable in their beliefs. But that is not helpful here. You obviously took on nothing I said about the progress of the sport and its positioning to be more than it is right now. You have chosen to be willfully ignorant of those things. So one must ask why that is you choose to be willfully ignorant, since you are leveling claims against me to put doubt on my argument; don't consider it unfair - its a question of your integrity, and I think its warranted. But see too, this is not an article either that is asking people to provide what they think will be the case, for no one truly knows for certain, such is why its more worthy a pursuit to focus on future potential. However, when one makes claims, such as you have above - he needs to be able to back them up reasonably. The arguments against rugby league in this thread are irrational arguments. ** For instance, your claim that eligibility rules is making the RLWC a laughing stock. You are claiming this in absolution - and frankly - its absurd. You can't claim that, back it up or substantiate it. In terms of the article, your claim here fails on many levels. The point about the world cup is not really whether people are happy with the eligibility rules - its whether they will enjoy the competition, and I personally think they will. I think there is much cause for celebration without getting all negative and dissmissive (yourself) about the RLWC's appeal to actual rugby league fans. All you have done is carefully construct for yourself a strawman argument, then gone and attacked all the straw men then claimed victory, while you fail to address the actual goal (argument you need to address properly). You can't use the straw men to defeat my argument - in actuality you never addressed it. Your premise was flawed, as I pointed out. See, you are not here to discuss rugby league, you are here to promote your own sport. To top it all off, as if to substantiate your claims against rugby league - you have then made an ad hominem (personal attack) against myself. Look, my conduct does not alter the facts. I am just pointing out your fallacies, and your form of argument (as are some others) is severely lacking. You can't come to the table with tricks and misrepresentation. Sorry, but I am not buying the whole dismissal thing you so fervently leveled at me. I have stated in the spirit of the article the type of answer it seems to be seeking, and I have not leveled claims that require absolution toward one spectrum or the other; and again, usually thats done simply to deride the sport. No, what I have done is sought a middle ground, based on reason and I have substantiated it. Do you have any valid things in relation to rugby league's future potential you would like to point out in a constructive manner - or not?
solly
Guest
"... forget internationalisation of a sport. In Australia, it’s hardly relevant." But here is the thing, rugby league is already international! They just need to play each year. The benefits will follow.
bbt
Guest
...smaller, less resourced clubs know that they are never going to get a piece of that pie - so how do they attract sponsors with large sums? How many Friday night games will the Roos etc get this year, they are already slotting in more Sydney games to take advantage of the Buddy halo.
Australian Rules
Guest
"When I see the Bulldogs vs Roos playing on ANZAC day, I’ll believe." Well, that'll never happen - it was created by, and belongs to, Ess and Coll (I don't support either). Those clubs could create a Good Friday game though...
code 13
Roar Guru
The fans of the 10 NSW NRL teams say otherwise.
Crosscoder
Roar Guru
Sports fan Melbourne if you believe everything that Plainsman has waffled on about ,then the one track minds are well and truly spread around. I do not know Von from a bar of soap,he is defending position ,from comments that are one tracked and AFL inspired. You AFL guys come rushing in to NRL threads ,sprouting spin,snipes at rugby league mixed with facts and expect no response. The one track minds come from more than one direction,as well evidenced by AFL posters on this thread and in fact many others. The fact that most rl people dont' waste their time sniping on AFL threads says something. And for an AFL person to even try to bag the RLWC is laughable,I can understand soccer and to a lesser degree union people having a dig.The code has a pro and semi pro existence in England and France,now a semi pro existence in PNG ,a pro and semi pro in Australia,and NZ.It has British Parliament support and the SARL wants to host the vent in 2017.
Crosscoder
Roar Guru
The Plainsman Crowds cant argue against that one.6 Points. Although you are playing with the truth,including the final series crowds according to Big League magazine total 3,214,567 and that no doubt included some promitonal NRL games to Darwin,Mackay,and Western NSW which did not he;lp the numbers. 81,500 with two disliked and less popular local teams for rugby league is nothing to be sneezed at.As if the AFL don't have a local G/F in the past. NRL is not played in only two key markets.The very reason the Storm came in was to boost Tv ratings in the North.A team the Storm plays in Melbourne I am led to believe.And you are assuming that will remain the case ,with no expansion. You forget 411,000 Melburnians on average watched the NRL G/F .if that is not a key market,then News Ltd and ch9 are nuts ,and I am not here.Plus the large numbers who tuned into the SOO.Sometimes I wonder whether the AFL cynics who come here do any research. And apparently the NZ market is not a key market,sheesh am I reading this????? The warriosr are only there on sufferance LOL. So two local teams played in the G/F for the NRL scoop.We have had a NZ team,a Nth Qld team,a Melbourne ,team,a Brisbane team,also appear,even an ACT team.Think that also covers a reasonable percentage of Australasia. You ignore the highly profitable,highly attended ,highly TV rated SOO series ,for whatever reason. You ignore the fact the Tv monies between the two codes are similar. Merchandise sales are also bigger in the NRL. Participation levels (registered for clubs) are at record levels.The only area where the code fell down in crowds and Tv ratings,and anyone with an ounce of grey matter knows, the poor performance of the large following clubs Dragons,EEls,Tigers and Broncos was the mea culpa. All this despite the ASADA scandal swirling and no clubs in WA or SA. Your comment about rl and ru shows little but plain ignorance .There are big white guys,big Polynesian,little white guys ,slim Indigenous and solid Indigenous players involved in both rugby codes.They cater for all shapes and sizes.You have not heard of the Bowens,Thurstons,Cherry Evans,Carneys,Milfords,Barbas,Johnsons,Fekis.Mitchell Pearce,Cronk,Uate.I could go on. Your generalisation is ludicrous,just like people suggesting AFL players are built like matchsticks and are mainly white . I agree you are suffering from lack of exposure ,to the rugby codes.