Toomua sent home from Wallabies tour

A wretched tour just got more wretched. Any more injuries and/or suspensions and mckenzie will be phoning O' Connor pleading for forgiveness!! The big question remains - can this wallabies outfit defeat a desperate and poor Scotland side. Scotland have won the last two meetings between these two which is surprising so I assume the wallabies would seek to right that wrong. The tougher game of course will be against Wales. I trust the ARU have made some money from this wretched tour. Given their desperate financial position the need it.

So KPM, is that like saying Deans has shown better performance as a coach (so far) compared to McKenzie, but McKenzie (clearly) has more potential?

Foley should be promoted to 15. A constant work horse who needs to be rewarded.

A blow for Matt but he has proved himself on this tour, can go home with his head held high and get himself right for the start of next season.

CL to 13 would be the dumbest thing I've heard in years. CFS is one of the brightest prospects we've had in years, be great to see him unleash. Maybe an SOS to Horne? Covers 12 and 13.

LLF at 13 would have been a weakness. His defence is nowhere near what's required in that position.

Toomua is a superior defender and stronger runner than LLF. It is a big blow to the starch in the centres. LLF is hopeless outside Cooper. He may be a great playmaker in his own right, but he doesn't work with Cooper at all.

I'm not hiding behind it Short-Blind, but it does take different players different lengths of time to adjust to test rugby, and while some seem good immediately, others can surpass them later. It also depends very much how they are integrated into the gameplan. Some players may have a style that is more challenging to integrate, for example in this case, with a significant playmaker at 10. I think ultimately there will be a very difficult choice between the advantages of a steadying second five-eigth at 12 or a pure runner (i.e. if Folau were moved to the centres, CFS did well, plus Kuridrani).

Maybe Harris to 12, CFS 13, Folau and Tomane at wing and Lilo at fullback, for all his defence has not been great in the 12 channel. Of course, if Taps had been in the touring party, that would have been a better solution.

I agree nos but my distinction here is between potential rather than performance.

Parisien in terms of familiarity and combinations I agree, it will be new. You're right too that Toomua is better at certain aspects of the game than Lealiifano and compliments Cooper well not least by being more solid. CLL though, has greater creativity, and although it's a challenge to unlock this creativity at 12 when Cooper tends to dominate the playmaking, if it were to happen it could add a string to the attacking bow that Toomua does not. CFS is quite green, but not really much more so than TK. Given how quickly he's taken to test rugby, it's forgotten how little Super rugby Kuridrani played. Maybe 10 matches as starter, 15? True he's played more in his native position than CFS, but I don't think the difference is gigantic. Against Wales, who I don't think that highly of anyway, I think the main thing is to get plenty of ability on the field, and this will be possible with these two.

Link probably is considering just that, along with harikari and a few other options. I think (hope) he's smart enough to weigh the short term gain against the long term hit to his credibility and decide against it.

That is not good news about Toomua. If it is all about combinations and having Toomua, Kuridrani, AAC, Cummins all out in the same week, then any chance of smooth interplay and strong defense as a result of familiarity has gone out the window. If I was McKenzie, I would be considering giving AAC a reprieve out of necessity and his glittering test record and let him play on Saturday. He clearly is part of the glue of the team and his services are required, just like Paddy Ryan's services are required as he is a prop.

KPM - fair points but I feel you are hiding somewhat behind the subjective notion of 'talent'. If CLL had more 'talent' than Toomua what has stopped him from showing it in his several test so far - he did get first crack at the jumper. Of course both players have talent - its a given if you make it to test level. What sets aside the great players is the ability to show and execute that talent when the pressure is on. Quite clearly so far Toomua has done much better in that race. McKenzie has to deal in the reality of 'form' not talent - that is why Toomua will be a fixture at 12 for some time, HIs form, when given a crack, has been way above what CLL showed in his tests. If you don't see that I'd like to understand your thinking? In the longer term, like you, I really like Godwin's 'talent' and potential for the 12 spot. Our back line in 2015 could be amazing.

KPM, i think Lealifano will slot into the position quite well, he has played well there before, he is a fine goal-kicker etc. but Toomua is a better tackler, is better at straightening the line, and has been a fine distributor and kicker as well. He has complimented Cooper very well and they are the incumbent 10-12 combination. So losing Toomua is bound to provide disruption. I think CLLL should go pretty well, but not as well as MT has gone these last few games. As for CFS, he has raw talent but is very young, green, and has less proven experience and impact than Kuridrani. Even Kuridrani took several matches to settle into the position and stop dropping the ball, as could be reasonably expected. Against Scotland it should be ok, but against Wales, the Wallabies need their best players and combinations on the field, and sadly due to various things, this will not be the case.

Lame.

Christ you're a bore, the players were allowed to drink, they simply had to (a) not get drunk and (b) get back to the hotel by midnight. Since the players have proven incapable of behaving like adults they now have a complete alcohol ban except after the match.

That's what I felt too kpm until this year but I have to admit Toomua has won me over in the last few months. In any case, its good to see CL back in the mix.

Messa, I think I've already taken the fairy tale gone wrong as far as decently allowed.

Short-Blind please read what I wrote. It's very important to take note of the detail in posts. I did not say CLL was better than Toomua, and I did not say he has played better or as well. What I did say is that he is more talented. This is quite different. I think it should be possible to get CLL to perform better. CFS I find has again as much as or more talent than Kuridrani. Note that I was in favour of Kuridrani a long time before most. Nor as you claim did I say CFS would outshine him. I think it's quite likely that both replacements are more naturally talented than the players they are replacing. The challenge is to get them to play to their ability.