Jedinak named Socceroos captain for World Cup

Kurt and Fadida.- When doing a coaching course we were asked to "chart" tackling,and for examples in a West Ham v Leeds United we were instructed to watch a full game video and count the number of tackles made by 2 players,the great Bobby Moore and "Bite yer Legs " Norman Hunter,reckoned by many to be the most ferocious tackler playing in the top English League at that time. Results of the charting exercise. Moore did not make a tackle in 90 minutes of football !!!! his "interception rate" was unbelievable, getting to a pass before his opponent. The mighty Norman,playing in midfield made 7 tackles in 90 minutes. The reason I cite this example is that there are many ways to assess a players ability and great care must be taken when doing an assessment for sometime we have our thought processes influenced by what we are told and what we read. As your discussion circles around Holman,I never saw him playing a club game,nor do I know the lad personally but I saw most of his international matches and the overiding feeling I got from watching him very carefully was that at that level the lad didn't really believe he was good enough to be playing at that level.Busy ?Yes,Fit? Very,Flashes of good finishing? Yes,First touch,? No better or worse than many of his team mates.An individualist?Yes. A team player? Dubious. I would think many managers would have signed him thinking they could blend him into a team,some may have succeeded ,others, at our international level would have been disappointed with his overall performances.Ante Millicic has touched on this problem today, national team management is dependent on assessing a players ability ,his personality, his psyche in just a few getogethers. Not so easy.. jb

@fadida As you would be aware, I think pretty highly of my opinions. :-D But, as a great philosopher once said: "A man's got to know his limitations". Tens of thousands of young footballers: in Europe, Africa, Sth America ... but van Gaal said: "Brett Holman, you're the guy I want for my team to help us win the Eredivisie, even though the keyboard experts in AUS tell me you have poor ball control". So, whenever I consider someone else has better credentials on any topic I always recall the words of that great philosopher, Inspector Harold Francis Callahan: "A man's got to know his limitations".

FFS Fuss! We aren't saying he's was a bad player. I bet you your Kevin Muscat signed underpants that if asked LVG would say, "Brett had an amazing work rate and was a very good player for us, but his touch was at best average". You are missing the point completely. You yourself agree on his touch, and yet you are disagreeing with us, despite having the same point!!!!!!! As I say Fuss, I trust my judgement on this. I'm really surprise that someone as opinionated as yourself would change his opinion if an "expert" offered an alternative opinion. Have some faith in yourself.

I mention that Holman has other strength as well. He makes intelligent off the ball running which either makes create good goal scoring opportunities for himself or due to dummy runs, create space for teammates to exploits. He also is a good finisher as shown by a goal scoring rate of one in every 4.5 games throughout his career (84 goals in 373 games, interestingly enough he had a pretty decent 64 assist as well) That combined with his work rate makes him valuable despite his first touch. Although I suspect that his first touch isn't as bad as what he showed in some of the earlier game for our national team and perhaps that was just the case of him performing poorly on the day and I notice from 2010 onwards the amount of time he lost the ball due to poor touch did drop a fair bit, I would be really surprised if his first touch magically becomes excellent in his club career. From what I seen, at his best it was just average, at worst it was exasperating.

@dasilva Very well argued post. My final observation: There are tens of thousands of kids in Europe, Africa, Sth America & Asia who can work as hard as Brett. So, I wonder why one of the world's most respected club football managers chose an unknown Aussie, Brett Holman for to play in his team in a highly-technical football league? I guess the only way to resolve the issue is to ask Louis van Gaal why he recruited Brett & how he rates Holman's technical ability to control the ball.

I never said that Holman is a bad player, I just said that his first touch isn't particularly good. In fact I have defended Holman in the past http://www.theroar.com.au/2010/06/24/brett-holman-answers-the-critics/ The only thing that shows is that Louis Van Gaal rates him as a player. That doesn't mean that he thinks his first touch is great. If you have any links from "experts" claiming that Holman has an excellent first touch, I'll concede the point. I will also say that sides that want to dominate possession may find him valuable not so much on his ability to keep the ball under pressure but the ability to win the ball. Possession football relies on a) the ability to keep the ball and b) the ability to win the ball back when you lose in. Holman is incredibly valuable in the latter. THis article by Michael Cox (who also writes for the Guardian) mention about Southhamptom who has the highest average possession in the English Premier League but a relatively lower pass completion rate. http://www.zonalmarking.net/2014/05/16/pass-completion-and-possession/ His conclusion is perhaps reason why Holman was a popular with managers "As Southampton have demonstrated, you can be average at actually keeping the ball, yet still be the best side in the league at dominating possession. You simply have to press high up the pitch."

Oh, by the way, fadida & dasilva... Brett Holman was recruited to AZ Alkmaar by a bloke called Louis Van Gaal. Perhaps, some football fans have heard of him? If you haven't you can see him in action coaching The Netherlands against Australia next month. But, by August he'll be coaching a club called Manchester United. But, I'm sure posters on The Roar are better judges of players than van Gaal. :-D PS: By the way, in his 1st season at AZ under Van Gaal, Holman won the Dutch Championship. Maybe, Van Gaal will re-sign Brett when he takes up his position at Old Trafford?

I am sure Ange has been forced to hold on to Timmy and Bresh because he needs at least a couple of players who have some idea about playing at this level of competition, otherwise, he would have far preferred to have left both behind (and let us recall that he still has to prune the squad from 30 to 23).

dasilva well put. Let's be honest - with or without his two world cup goals, I don't recall anyone praising Holman for his ball control and passing - no one - ever - but he was always viewed as a hard worker - which is fine - nothing wrong with that. By the way, when you mentioned NEC Nijmegen, I thought to myself: I though Holman played for AZ? So I checked, and in fact he did spend two seasons with NEC, which I never knew - so there you go. A-League afficionados will recall that it was from NEC that the Heart recruited Rutger Worm (who, it has to be said, did disappoint).

Fad @ others Do you think this is Timmy's swan song tournament or do you think he'll still be around in 6 months ? ..

@dasilva Unless you - or any Roar poster - can demonstrate involvement with coaching, or recruiting, for an Eredivisie club, the only thing that resonates with me is Brett Holman's playing history in one of the world's highly-technical football leagues. And, he wasn't at club that wasn't performing. He won the Dutch Championship & played every UEFA Champions League match & Europa League match.

Fussball when had any expert praised Holman on his first touch? Holman was a crucial player in terms of playing a pressing game forcing passing errors and winning the ball in the opposition half and in fact his stamina and work rate is something I hear "expert" praising a lot. He was also praised for his off the ball running and making intelligent runs by both Craig Foster and Robbie Slater. Judging by his goal scoring record in his career where he scored one goal in every 4 games. I assume he was also a decent finisher (even if early in his international career, he struggled with his finishing until the World Cup 2014) and I remember seeing some stunning goals (various long shot from outside the box) from him on youtube for NEC Nijmegen However I never heard a single "expert" praising Brett Holman on having a good first touch.

@fadida (a)

Kurt, I genuinely admire your passion and admiration for him. I'm not disagreeing that he isn't a fine captain. It's his playing ability that is in discussion. Again, I disagree with the logic that leadership makes him our best international. Milligan had shown more leadership at NT level. Nothing Jedinak has done in 40 internationals had convinced me he has even deserved a starting spot. Having said that, his performances in the last 2 have been better. The Costs Rica game was the best I've seen him play for us. The transfer talk was I believe Stoke and teams of that status, sideways steps. None of the big sides even glanced his way, again not to denigrate, but more to quash this "best in the EPL" talk.

If Mourinho, Ferguson, Van Gaal or a manager you look up to was to say of Holman, "best technique since Cruyff", would you a) change your opinion b) think, "you've lost it Jose"? Again, you can't compare the two arenas Fuss. People become coaches/managers (and occasionally very successful ones) with little and sometimes no formal training, basef on their exoerience of playing. A surgeon needs 5 years of Uni education before they'll contemplate giving you a scalpel. Being a patient doesn't qualify you to be a doctor. You're giving football "expertise" too much respect. Trust your own judgement Fuss, whether that be football, medicine etc

I concede I may have been over zealous with the best in epl comment but what he doesn't have in technical ability he makes up for in his leadership quality, something no one else even comes close in comparison to. So yes he is the best international, because when our backs against the wall I want him more than any one else there

There was massive transfer talk about him from around 4 premier league clubs mid season. He re signed with crystal palace while they were still second last. If that's not the type of belief you want from a captain especially with such big odd on him I dunno what is and then went on a 5 game winning streak. Last year the club lost dougie freedman, basicaly he was stand in assistant to a stand in coach they won 13 in a row. When he left the mariners they went from 2 to 6, that's how good he is as a leader

@fadida I'm not saying we have to wait for an expert to validate our opinion. I'm simply saying if an expert's opinion differs to my non-expert opinion, rather than doubt the expert I'll doubt my non-expert analysis. PS: Not talking about spotting a heart-attack. If you are a surgical registrar & an outsider thinks your incision technique resembles a drunken abattoir worker, but your consultant examiner thinks your technique is like a work of art ... ... do you question your examiner's ability to judge your technical ability, or the outsider's ability to judge technique?

But Kurt, Jedinak's "pants were pulled down" v Oman, Jordan and a number of others. At least Milligan was dacked by a much better side :) If Jedinak is by some miracle the "best DM in the EPL" as some are now suggesting, why is there zero transfer talk involving him? Zero. Why have Man U not chased him to replace Carrick/Fellaini? Why have Liverpool not replaced Gerrard with him? Arsenal Arteta? Chelsea Matic? Etc etc It's because while he loves a tackle his distribution is well below average, a key component of the DM role. This is evident in his 40 appearances at NT level

Fuss, you admit his touch isn't good from your observations either. This was my point. I'm not doubting his effectiveness. At all. He's done really well for himself. Health care and football are a little different. A regular visitor to a hospital can't spot the signs of heart failure, whereas a regular visitor to football can generally spot a poor touch. No one waits for an "expert" in the field to tell them Messi and Ronaldo are great players. We can all make that accurate assessment. Holman chasing after his first touch and losing the ball is a really good indication of a poor first touch. If an "expert" told me otherwise I'd cross them off my "expert" list. Again, not denigrating Holman, but it's obvious to anyone who watches the game to any degree that his touch his not the "silkiest" shall we say. Having said all of that...... I think Jedinak's passing is sub par while many others who watch as much football as me claim he is Ya Ya Toure Mk II ( better tell Palace when your birthday is Mile :D ).