Apart from Tim Cahill, Matt McKay and Mark Bresciano, it’s fair to say the best days lie ahead for most of the Socceroos World Cup squad.
That was undoubtedly a big factor for Ange Postecoglou in finalising his 23.
The manager, in and around the Gosford camp, made no secret of the fact he wants to build a team that can grow, and he delivered a squad full for opportunity and promise.
Leading into the camp Postecoglou said he wasn’t interested in players who simply wanted to go to the World Cup. He wanted players who wanted to achieve something.
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The concept of a comfortable player wasn’t one that sat well. The World Cup, after all, should always be about making an impression. Given where the Socceroos have come from, and who they’re up against, Postecoglou has taken the umbrella view of using Brazil to fast-track his rebuild.
There is little doubt the manager feels his young players can significantly benefit from being exposed to the world stage. He said as much in explaining the inclusion of Swindon Town’s Massimo Luongo.
He’ll be hoping the likes of Luongo, Ben Halloran, Mathew Leckie, Adam Taggart, Oliver Bozanic, Bailey Wright and Alex Wilkinson continue to push and take whatever opportunities come their way, and take that confidence back to their clubs.
Better still, if a few of them are able to make a name for themselves and attract the attention of bigger clubs, Postecoglou knows it will benefit not only their individual careers but the national team.
With Cahill, McKay and Bresciano close to the end of their careers, and the trio of Eugene Galekovic, Mile Jedinak and Mark Milligan arguably at the peak of their powers, he clearly feels he has enough experience in the squad.
Throw in Matthew Spiranovic and Dario Vidosic, who each have more than 20 caps, and James Holland and Tommy Oar, who each have more than 10, and there are 10 players, or over 40 per cent of the squad, you could consider as experienced.
Perhaps the more pertinent question is whether there’s enough cover in all the areas?
The one area where this is particularly glaring is in the fullback spots, and this was the biggest surprise about Wilkshire’s omission. As you look across the squad, a lot rests on the form and fitness of fullbacks Ivan Franjic and Jason Davidson.
Even when the squad was at 30 it looked light at left back, but Davidson and Franjic now become pivotal starting players. If either of them are struggling through form or injury, the alternatives look like Ryan McGowan or possibly Spiranovic on the right, and either McKay or Bozanic on the left.
Elsewhere, the unfortunate groin injury to Tom Rogic and the continuing absence of Bresciano makes for a conundrum in the number 10 role. Does Postecoglou go with a conventional 4-2-3-1 which features a 10, or play the 4-3-3 we saw against South Africa, where, in the second half, there was no number 10?
If he does decide to use a 10, there’s every chance James Troisi goes to the head of the queue if Bresciano isn’t strong enough to play big minutes. Or we might see a more withdrawn midfield featuring two number eights in front of the screening midfielder.
An example would be Bozanic and Milligan ahead of Jedinak. A back-up would be McKay and Luongo ahead of Holland.
Whatever the combination, the inability of Rogic to get up and the ongoing waiting game on Bresciano places pressure on Troisi and Vidosic to step up in a creative sense. For the latter, in particular, it’s time to deliver.
Up front, it’s hard to begrudge Taggart his opportunity, even if some argue it came because of the back injury to Josh Kennedy. He’s also there on merit. Both he and Luongo made the biggest impression in the warm-up game against a local Brazilian side earlier in the week.
With Bozanic and Wilkinson, Luongo and Taggart are the biggest movers over the past three weeks. As I argued at the announcement of the original 30-man squad, Taggart has a compelling case on the basis he is perhaps the only natural goalscorer in the squad.
Apart from that, his case was also compelling on the bass of his mobility and adaptability. Clearly he fits the Postecoglou template to a tee, able to play across the front three or four, and inside or outside the box. The same can’t be said of Kennedy.
Taggart also appears in great shape, and that, rightly, is the main pre-requisite for Postecoglou. While he might have been prepared to cater for Bresciano, such an attacking fulcrum, Postecoglou wasn’t prepared to carry many players.
Ultimately it’s a squad with the potential for growth, and all the nation wants from its Socceroos is a team on the rise.
peterhen
Guest
FIUL - my point is more about the trajectory rather than the age of the player when they leave. Culina went on to bigger and better things pretty quickly after he left. Viduka had an incredibly fast trajectory when he left Melbourne Knights and had that debacle in Croatia. Chippers went and played out of his skin from the age of 25. Tommy Oar is a classic example. He went to Utrecht when he was 18. You are correct. Is he still on the upward trajectory at club level? I am not so sure. Has he dramatically got better? Is he drawing attention from any top coaches around the place like Cahill was? Maybe time will prove me wrong - but I am a great believer in "you either have it or you don't" and I am afraid that a lot of this current generation of players are missing the x-factor to be great players. I am sure you know what I am trying to say - you just don't want to agree with anything I say.
Fussball ist unser leben
Roar Guru
At the same age that Jason Davidson is playing in one of the most technical football leagues in the world ... ... Scott Chipperfield was driving buses in Australia & playing in the NSL. He went to Switzerland to play full pro-football when he was 25 years old. Tommy Oar made his debut in the Eredivisie when he was 18 years old! * at 18 years, Jason Culina was playing semi-pro football in the NSL * at 18 years old, Brett Emerton was playing semi-pro football in the NSL * at 18 years old, Lucas Neill was playing in the 3rd tier of England Even the great Mark Viduka was playing semi-pro football in the NSL at 18 years of age and only went to Celtic at 23 years. So many people, who either weren't alive - or weren't following football - in the last 90s, are clueless about the career development of the Golden Generation.
peterhen
Guest
I think Tommy Oar HAS improved since when he went to Utrecht first and came into the Socceroos but my point is - has he improved at the same trajectory as the likes of Cahill, Viduka, Moore, Neill did in Europe when they went there? I don't personally think so. He is a decent enough player. Leckie probably has improved from the time he left Australia - is he going to make it beyond the Bundesliga 2 ? I doubt it personally. I can't see him dramatically improving. Jedinak and Kruse are the two players I have already mentioned have achieved the 2006-like trajectory - did well at their first club, got noticed - moved to significantly better clubs. That is what I mean. Again, I can't see Davidson improving at the same trajectory as the other two. He has built a solid career for himself and seems to be Ange's first choice but he is absolutely nothing on Chippers and never will be. Sorry.
peterhen
Guest
Sickass, Well yes - generally speaking a player's quality can be judged by the club that he plays for. I am not sure that anyone would disagree with that statement??? My point is that pound for pound, you can't compare the quality of player we had in 2006 with the player we have in 2014. They are playing at a different level both in club football and international football. The football on the pitch? The 2006 Socceroos proved themselves in club football AND in the World Cup - they were outstanding. It was proud to be Australian in Germany that summer. I don't think it's a narrow way of looking at it at all - you are judged by what you do on the pitch and only there. Interesting analogy about England. They seem to be the perennial underachievers at Euro and World Cup level - on the basis of where the players play their club football and their quality as individual players. They always seem to get to the last 8 at least but struggle to get further - usually because they bottle penalties. "how well Leckie played in his off-the-ball movement" Blind Freddie can see that Leckie is an average player. He is playing in the Zweite Bundesliga for a reason - no top quality sides rate his ability. Why else do you think he is not playing higher? He is trying his best and I will support him - but I don't believe he will ever make it to the same level as the 2006 players. "Frankly, you write a lot of words with absolutely no insight" You are entitled to your opinion but I believe my comments are based on fact and nothing else.
Scott
Guest
What a ridiculous comment. "Many are playing at the best level they will ever play and not get better". With an inexperienced team there is always room for improvement. And it just so happens many of the players in the NT are inexperienced at playing against absolute world class opposition. You don't think Tommy Oar has improved? Leckie? Jedinak? Davidson? Kruse? You're saying they've all been at that level their whole career?
j binnie
Guest
Slickas- I am sorry, I do not know where you are coming from in this debate. Are you saying that a 15 year old participating in our HP programme has never kicked a ball in his life up until the time he is invited to participate?????I seriously doubt you believe that and yet that is what you are implying. You ask how long does it take to make a footballer,I rebuff that question with my own question,When is any player complete in his education???.I put it to you that once a player starts to think he knows it all, it is time for a discerning coach to move him on. You then drift into the area of sports psychology and I put it you again,that shouldn't really concern men who are coaching 7 year old kids,the main aim at that age is to get them as much ball exposure as possible while retaining the fun aspect of the game.This philosophy should not change until around 10-12.unless in extreme cases of development. You then take me to task for saying Taggart and Brilliante appear to be the only graduates from our HP system that have impressed AP up to this point in time. That is not supposition it is fact !!!. I did not say the other players you mention were not good young players,but Good apart ,none of them were named in Ange's 30 man squad.meaning,not in my opinion,but in AP's opinion, they still have a way to go.I could ask the question. Where are your nominees playing thus adding to their education?,not in the AIS but as I hinted at HAL clubs or overseas. Your final tale has me totally bamboozled,What has your accounant's outlook on computer training in the past,the now, or the future got to do with what we are discussing here.I have been involved in local football for over 50 years and have one desire I would like to see achieved before my time is up, that is to see a Socceroo team ,full of HAL players ,playing at the top echelons of world football.As long as that aim is in my head I will continue to question the status quo. OK?jb
Evan Askew
Guest
I would agree that for the majority of his tenure Osieck didn't have the new talent coming through hence he needed to rely on the "golden generation" to get through. The reason why he attracted such heavy criticism towards the end is due to the fact that the younger players were starting to come through and he wasn't picking them. Even when they were playing at an abviously higher level. I point to the fact that Carney who had being without a club for almost a year was picked the moment he was signed by New York Red Bulls, despite the fact we had a left back in Jason Davidson playing regularly in the Dutch first division. Neil was still getting picked despite being without a club while we have the likes of Spiranovic, Sainsbury and Good either playing in the A league or the SPL. Subsequent events have led to neither Sainsbury or Good making the final squad but I put this down in large part to the fact that both Good and Sainsbury suffered crucial injuries in the latter part of the season. It is my belief that Postecolglou has for the most part picked the best squad available. (I would have had Wilkshire because he is playing for a decent club in a reasonably high standard European 1st division. I know I am also going to get crucified for this but I would alsso have had McDonald in the side)
Bondy
Guest
Jb Its a very difficult situation to address with HP units or structured youth development, where is the best development for a young player and what is that age, for instance what type of coach are we receiving at the AIS in Canberra are they proficient enough to be coaching kids for modern professional football ?, is a child better educated at a HAL youth team playing in the NYLeague ?, or what if an aspiring young lad takes the eye of a AC Milan scout for instance offering a developmental pathway in Milan instead of the AIS or Syd Fc youth team what's a parent to do ?. There's plenty of options to actually screw the kid up in fact. I have a concern about the youth going abroad personally but dont really have a great deal of faith in what they're being taught here now, I .E. is there enough talented kids playing on mass at these " individual " clinics in Australia ?, do they both child and parents really understand what it takes to be a professional footballer and does the child want to be a pro or is dad insisting the child wants to be a pro though plays other sports on the side as well you cant have it that way you must dedicate and devote your life to this sport at a very young age to become a pro is that really explained and understood by one and all ?. We must also remember that football is a skills based game that skill needs to addressed and acquired its not your typical Australian wrestling sport where you can flop from sport to sport in less than a month and be a genius .
SlickAs
Guest
First, it takes longer than 5 years to train a footballer. Like learning to speak a foreign language without an accent, it is impossible if you start too late. So it is with certain football skills. You certainly can't take a 15 year old who has played rugby all his life and turn him into a footballer by the time he is 20! Certain skills have to be learned when you are 7. This has had the absolute living hell studied out of it all over the world and there are multiple academic studies from any number of countries that measure and correlate this stuff ... Second, attributes beyond the technical and tactical are important in becoming an elite professional footballer such as personal drive, coping with setbacks, optimism, passion for the sport, professionalism, coachability, personal competitiveness and ambition. That is a lot of things to find in one kid! Third, you talk about Brillante and Taggart. Is your measuring stick that they have to be in the socceroos by the time they are 21? What about all the other young talent out there like Curtis Good, Geria, Pain, Amini, Yeboah, Antonis, Awer Mabil, etc.? Is this a failure to develop youth? I know an accountant who in the late 80's decided he was too busy for a computer course. By 1996 or so Microsoft Excel had become ubiqitous. But a stubborn bugger, he was. By 2000 he was out of a job, thrown on the scrap heap. You know what he says to this day? "The old ways are better. These new techniques are no better than what we always did. There are no new ideas out there, I knew this guy in 1986 who talked about that. The accounting practice was better back in the day ..." Don't be that guy! :)
j binnie
Guest
Fuss- you and I have gone over this ground before and while you think our"education" program started with kids at the age of 6 then your claims bear belief. I however am well aware of a "high performance" content in out "development plan" and I am 100% sure that did not start with 6 year old kids. So the question arises ,what have we to show for the huge amount of money that has been spent employing foreign,highly qualified coaches,and some local coaches, some 5 years after that programme was brought to fruition, after 2 more years in the planning.Where are the kids who have been in the HP program for the last 5 years,the normal time to serve an apprenticeship?.As I said Adam Taggart and maybe the other youngster Brilliante are the only 2 "graduates" who appear to be progressing at a fast enough rate to warrant selection in Ange's "new deal" strange thing being they both play for the same club in the HAL. So back to my question,where do we look to see where our kids are being educated???.Do we look to HAL clubs like the Jets or CCM, or overseas to secondary leagues in European countries, or do we look to Canberra from where the "high performance" part of our plan is orchestrated, to find out what has happened to our 15-20 year olds who surely must have been part of that plan for the last 5 years, for.2 successes out of say 150 over 5 years is not what one would say is a high percentage. There will be others of course but they appear to have sought the "overseas route" to further their education. Your cynical mate jb.
Fussball ist unser leben
Roar Guru
@jb As a follower of the ALeague, I'm proud that we have 7 home based players in the squad and, of the other 16 players who are now overseas, 10 of the 16 started their professional career in the ALeague. This is in a competition that is 9 years old. Based on my observation in the last 2-4 years of the HAL, compared to the earlier years, players are now staying longer in the competition before moving overseas and, as the competition strengthens in quality, this trend will continue. You ask: is our “development path” working or are we still totally dependent on our HAL clubs or masses of identities overseas in developing our younger players. Given that "the education of a footballer" follows a 13-15 year time-line (from age 6 to 20), I think it is absolutely ridiculous to reach any conclusions - positive, or negative - about a "development plan". It's like changing the 13 year school education system & then - after only 9 years of the new education system - trying to assess whether the quality of workers aged in their mid-20s has improved. Belgium is highly regarded as the team that has a current "golden generation". The Belgian FA changed the country's development system in 2001. The FFA launched the National Football Curriculum in 2009. If it's taken the Belgians 13 years to see their system produce tangible benefits, Australia will need to wait until WC2022 for the equivalent benefits. Source: Essential reading for every student of AUS football "Why Belgium is the hottest country in football" by Tim Adams http://www.esquire.co.uk/culture/features/3834/why-belgium-has-the-most-exciting-footballers-in-the-world/
Arto
Guest
@ Bondy: Thanks, you too! Looking forward to Friday already! :-)
j binnie
Guest
Titus and Bondy - While it is nice to read positivity in your comments I would prefer it if you got deeper into the facts that you are discussing for, if misunderstood, they can be misleading. You mention the HAL as being a "developmental path" which one would hope,being the top league in our country,it should undoubtedly be. You then talk about the team that played Croatia in a friendly match (where 6 substitutes are allowed) claiming "half the team" play in the HAL when in fact only 3 of the starting 11 play there, Franjic,Spiranovic & Milligan, and 2 of them have overseas stints under their belt.Actually,out of the squad of 23 only 7 "ply their trade" in the HAL. and 4 of that 7 have sampled overseas football and have returned to grace the HAL. That leads us to the "development path" you both speak of. In the last 5 years we have had a unashamedly named "high performance" plan supposedly working with 50 or 60 players who have been selected for their talent,physique, or whatever and yet there is only one obvious graduate in this squad of 23,Taggart.That poses the question,is our "development path" working or are we still totally dependent on our HAL clubs or masses of identities overseas in developing our younger players. I will leave that to you 2 guys and any others who are interested,to debate. Cheers jb
Bondy
Guest
Arto Good mate enjoy the Cup . __________________________ Slickas I dont mean this in a derogatory sense but I think the English may win one game there subsequently not being enough to get out of their Group, I hope I'm wrong though ..
SlickAs
Guest
peterhen, I honestly think that you can't read football so you have to rely on the name of the club the players play for to gauge their "quality". Croatian players play for teams like Real Madrid, Inter and Shakhtar so they must be "quality". Australian players play for clubs like Melbourne Victory, New York Redbulls and Fortuna Düsseldorf so they must be "not quality". The 2006 world cup squad all played for EPL, Serie-A clubs so they must be inherently higher "quality". But this of course ignores the actual football on the pitch and is a narrow sighted way of looking at it. Since England all plays for ELP clubs surely they should win or at least be in the finals of the world cup according to your measuring stick. Anyway, it is a narrow way of measuring things, especially when speaking to people here who can see the difference between a half press and a full press, can spot where a team is transitioning from a defensive midfield diamond to an attacking one, and can see how well Leckie played in his off-the-ball movement. Frankly, you write a lot of words with absolutely no insight.
Arto
Guest
@ peterhen: Glad you´re not the manager of the Socceroos!!! :-)
Arto
Guest
@ peterhen: Based upon all the comments you´ve written above I´m tempted to ask did someone steal your identity on here & write something for you? Where did the optimism come from all of a sudden? I read you thinking there´s not one team we can beat in this WC (not even Honduras, you pointed out) and now you think there´s an outside chance that we can beat Chile in our opening game? I´m writing my comments after Friday´s friendlies and so whilst I saw the result against Croatia (but not any footage), I don´t know the result in the Chile vs Nth Ireland game. However, a couple of analyses of Chile online have questions Chile´s ability to defend (they were down 0-2 against Egypt after 20mins before fighting back to draw 2-2 last week). Personally, I think Aus might be able to surprise some the other teams, but I see our best chance of a result against the Netherlands as they have injuries to key players as well as already being in a bit of a transition-type period themselves. My tip is for Spain & Chile to advance from the Group with Holland 3rd & us last, but we might equal Holland´s points tally if we draw against them in the 2nd match.
Arto
Guest
@ peterhen: I think I would accept a lot more of what you said if you weren´t arrogant & dismissive of what others say - not everyone has to agree here, it´s a discussion forum so people are free to write their views. Your generally patronising view of contrary views to yours doesn´t really endear you to a lot of people in this forum so maybe you could try expressing yourself differently? That way, maybe people would be more inclined to accept your opinion - even if they at first don´t agree with it. As for your actual views, I agree that overall the 2006 side was a better side than the current side and that our performances since then have been on the whole in decline. However, this isn´t something that applies solely to Australia - it´s a cyclical and applies to ALL teams and is the direct result of the passing of time. In any facet of life, results and performances vary with time as it´s pretty much impossible to replicate quality as things evolve. To be honest though, I haven´t read any comments here from anyone suggesting that quality is the same or that the performances in this upcoming WC are going to be as good as in 2006. Most people here think that Australia is going to lose if not all then 2 of the Group games and we´ll be lucky with a goal or 2 after 3 matches. Australia isn´t that good at the moment and most people accept that - the main theme is that Postecoglu has a fundamentally different approach to managing the team than both Verbeek & Osieck and most people here are happier with Postecoglu´s approach.
Arto
Guest
True. On both accounts. I just thought that was in eesence what Tony is trying to do in his opinion piece - as he certainly doesn´t quote Postecoglu so in essence most of what he writes in this thread is speculation.
Arto
Guest
@ j binnie: Ok, I see we have indeed been approaching the topic from slightly different perspectives even though we have essentially the same views (ie: we both agree that Postecoglu has a very difficult job to both get results AND regenrate the team). The only point where I see us disagreeing as such is in the concept of the timeframe of qualifying for a WC and this impeeding our ability to develop players & improve our style of play. (I think) I see where you are coming from as their is a POTENTIAL conflict of interest as results don´t necessarily demand development and inmprovement as being key ingredients (reasons) for them being achieved, but I think you could argue in almost any field that to a certain extent you need good results AND you need to develop & improve (even if you set these two principles on opposite ends of a spectrum I don´t think the best solution is to align oneself at either extreme). It´s a balancing act and what seperates the chaff from the wheat (so to speak) is how well one can balance the two - the really good managers in football manage it well, the not-so-good ones, well you know what I mean... :-) Good discussion though and, as I alluded to in my previous comment, I like reading your comments as they are never personal (ie: vindictive or aggressive) and they contain a lot of thought & fact behind them... And by the way, I didn´t mean to doubt your stats analysis of the ages of other NTs - was just pointing out that I hadn´t checked them up... Cheers! :-)