Is it time for change at the VRC carnival?

i dont know if we need another female only group 1. but i see your point about the distance

Some wonderful thoughts here Sam. Very enjoyable reading. 1. It's ironic that Australian & NZ breeding of stayers sucks, its the pits, yet the VRC insists on maintaining the 2500m distance? Not much intelligence surrounding this, is there? if they're so determined to retain the 2500m, then do something about the breeding of stayers!!! I've looked at the Flemington track, & there's a chute off to the right (stables) just before the horses make a left-hand turn along the Maribyrnong River. With some adjustment, a 2200m start could be forged here. 2200m is a satisfactory compromise between 2500m & 2000m, which still requires some staying ability. Otherwise, move the Derby to the autumn, but it would leave a hole on Derby Day. VRC Spring Champion over 2000m perhaps? 2. I wouldn't swap the Mackinnon & Emirates. Many connections still use the Mackinnon as a hit-out for the Cup. Even though its same conditions & distance (bar 40m) it's an entirely different race to the Cox Plate, which is no longer seen as a suitable Cup preamble. What I mean is, if you're aiming for the Cup, you're not aiming to win the Cox, & vice-versa. As Green Moon demonstrated several years ago. I wrote his Cup chances off based on his Cox plate run. Silly me! If you swap the Mackinnon & Emirates, you need to beware unintended consequences. Too many changes might lead to entirely different scenarios from the ones you're trying to achieve. 3. I like the competition for Cup berths. Especially if it forces overseas horses to have one or two starts before the Cup, which they are doing more often anyway. The locals certainly to qualify. Forget the winner of the VRC Derby having an exemption. The Cup is no longer a suitable race for 3-y-o's. 4. I would love to put a cap on overseas horse, of say 8 (one-third of max. field). This would be in an ideal world. But once again, our breeding of stayers is so pathetic, it's the overseas horses that are helping to maintain the tradition of the Cup. It's the overseas horses probably preventing the race form being reduced to 2500m! Gee, I grew up with this race almost 50 years ago. Came in with Bart in 1965. The Melbourne spring carnival is unrivaled in the world. I mean unrivaled. No where else can you conjure up the following race meetings, one after the other. Turnbull Stakes Day (Sat). Caulfield Gns Day (Sat). We used to have the 1000 Gns Day (Wed). Caulfield Cup Day (Sat). Geelong Cup Day (Wed). Cox Plate Day (Sat). Bendigo Cup Day (Wed). Derby Day (Sat). Cup Day (Tue). Oaks Day (Thu). Stakes Day (Sat). Sandown Classic Day (Sat). Unrivaled seven weeks of racing. But it sometimes seems our administrators, breeders & major owners are doing a good job of trying to wreck it.

If you ran the Derby over 10 they start in the chute avoiding the bend which I think is a good idea plus you'd probably get milers testing their arm over 2000 . I think the Cup should be capped for Internationals what's the point of an Australian buying a horse than if realistically you could never get into it. ___________ Michael Earthquake's got no hope tomorrow.

What a great line up of horses in the 3 year old's Coolmore Stud Stakes. Earthquake $9.50 Eloping $21.00 Bring Me The Maid $21.00 That's how strong this race is. They are all winning chances.

You've made a lot of good points however I have one major objection. I don't like 3 year olds in the Cox Plate and when they win it often shows up a deficiency in WFA performers. The was a time when a 3 year old was entered in the race because it was exceptional, now they are taking maidens and Class 1. Yes Octagonal was a good and So You Think was a star but as 3 year olds the beat some good horses but not great horses.

The honour roll for the AJC Derby is in most cases a who's who of future races stars. The honour roll for the VRC Derby is a list of horses who will very soon be forgotten. Tomorrow there are 8 interesting races, some of them great races and then there's the Derby a race which seems more insignificant every year.

keep the faith max :) Preferment is a big useless thing but he has the pedigree, finish and jock. Noticed originally they were going to use blinkers but oliver wasn't sure ... see they have settled on winkers. Have a feeling the pace maybe testing. But Hampton Court is certainly the horse to get past.

Agree there should be more ballot free races, the fact that you have to achieve so much prior to this campaign is why we are seeing the aged fields. There seems to be a lot of horses getting in a season after they are at their best.

sam, some excellent points of which I totally concur. the only thing you need to be wary of with having too many races with ballot free is that quite often a horse is brought along slowly safe in the knowledge its prior form has got it high enough up the order entry. viewed is a good example of this. whilst we want to reward current form, we also should not then unfairly penalise those who have targeted their horse to peak on the day, knowing they didn't need to bust a gut trying to win a lead up race. you see my point. but accept 1 or 2 more races with entry into the cup would be a good idea. but you don't want to overdo it. im glad this derby to 2000m is off the radar for while, use to irk. peter moody ran pillar of herculeas in the McKinnon as a 3yo, cos he didn't want to run in derby - good on him. you have the choice to run or not run. I really ark strong once someone say the 2000m derby, its gotta be 2500m

Overall Cup week is quite good. The horses have at least one option and fields are mostly big. I think the issue that race programming needs to work on delivering is quality older Australian bred stayers. The majority of Australian staying Group 1s are for 3yr olds ( Vic Derby and Oaks, Aust Derby and Oaks, Qld Derby and Oaks, SA Derby) That is 7 out of a total of 12 Group 1s 2400m and above in Australia. The older horses have only 5 (Melb Cup, Caul Cup, BMW, Syd Cup, Metrop.) The result is Australian bred "distance horses" are bred to be those who are the best at three. Hence we end up with top 2yr old sprinters siring Derby winners because their progeny are the most developed at that age. It is a cycle of precociousness that has not created quality open aged stayers. We need races to find the best older staying lines. So my two changes to Cup week would be; firstly, the Matriarch Stakes needs to be the next race they push for Group 1 as there is no mares Group1 beyond 1600m and yet for fillies there are five (Vic, Aus, Qld and Australasian Oaks, Storm Queen Stakes.) There really is a disconnect between the 3yr old program and that of the older horses. The other way I would seek to ensure the breeding of better Australian stayers, and look to fill the massive black hole that seems to be stayers aged four is introduce a 4yr old version of the Derby. Something akin to the Hong Kong Derby, as a 4yr old Classic would contested by the top staying three year olds and the emerging offspring of the European bloodlines we now have available. It would be the kind of target race that could see the real hopes for the future identified and create a better economic case for investing in slower developing stayers. Plus it would be a cracking race! The term "Australian St Ledger" is vacant.

Yeah, hard to argue with any of that. I think that having more ballot exempt races would be hugely beneficial, as it would encourage (force?) the international raiders to have a run here before the Cup. Personally, I think the internationals are brilliant (the 2013 Melbourne Cup was, by some distance, the best field I've seen in the race), but it's frustrating when you have so many runners without any exposed form down here. Nice article.

Great article Sam ... Can't see the MacKinnon being moved. The AU trainers would tear the joint down. We know how to use the Lexus and MacKInnon as the final hit-out for the Cup. Visitors don't ... surely they are not going to take away another edge from us on the advice of a pommie trainer :). Not sure about the last 2 points as well. The Melbourne Cup is regarded internationally as the championship for 'endurance' horses (2700+m). Last few years, the race assembled the best fields i can ever remember. This year ... not as good but far from ordinary and that is because 'endurance' talent is just not around this year. if we want the MCup to remain an international ... best qualified horses in.

Sorry ... changed to the Autumn not Spring

Reg Moses of Star Kingdom fame was instrumental in having the AJC Derby moved to the Spring. That remains one of the rare occasions when race planners got it right. I agree with your comments with the reminder that it took South Sydney 43 years to turn it around. It will probably take Australian breeding about the same time to breed competitive stayers costing millions $ in prizemoney 'gifted' each season. We may soon have the Cup without one Aussie bred The Newmarket, Australian Cup, both Randwick Miles and the AJC Derby remain the highpoints on my racing calendar. Tomorrow, if Hampton Court is positioned properly he will win. Several weeks ago I had a good serve of Preferment but I now doubt if he will be close enough on the turn.

i think there is merit in your first 3 points. with regards to the internatinalisation of the cup, has it really made the cup a big deal overseas? no not really but we like to tell ourselves that it has. the cup is a handicap and doesn't attract the best, Admire Ratki is ranked the 21st best horse in Japan and he is top weight and favourite. people around the world really dont care about the cup. maybe if they made it set weights or WFA?