Football infrastructure: The next frontier

Practically NONE of the above had an relation to the Sydney Olympics. The only thing that specifically could be associated would be the levelling of the ovals. And as illustrated the MCG is the worst example for you to quote as Govt funding is minimal and only post Olympics. It's not an argument. It's simple time frames. MCG works across 1990-1992 were NOT for the Olympics yet to be won. MCG works across 2003-2005 were NOT for the Olympics already held. Full stop.........There is no argument. Just facts.

#Fuss - the fitting up to 93K is a little bit of a stretch. yes - there was this one time when they crammed that many in - Round 11, 1981 Haw v Coll - but - that was going overs (well and truly - there was a bit of a kerfuffle and they never got near that figure again although 3 rounds earlier they'd squeezed in 79,326 for Coll v Ess). Let's be more guided by the 1991 Grand Final held at Waverley to which the attendance is listed as 75,230. (in '81 Waverley in the H&A was only a fraction over 1000 below the MCG avg attendance). The old bus convoys from Glen Waverley station were a treat!! Certainly in those days - as close as it was to what is now the Monash Freeway - for so much of the time it was not at all a freeway (all the way) - and people on the west of the city really struggled to get there and back in reasonable time (people out at places like Melton would struggle to catch the last train). #Bevan re 'media mates' - it is always interesting when the Sydney centric national media are the ones bidding. And the biggest Media player has been Murdoch who were deeply invested in the AFL's primary winter rival - the NRL. Perhaps a disgruntled soccer fan has to push the media mates line - but, in an AFL v NRL world the media mates are on the RL side most certainly.

NIB?--------See my remarks earlier about lousy accessibility. The State Government have paid for the existing "improvements",but with their commitment to the new "multi-function{" stadium at Burswood,don't hold your breath for any more funds.

"like what happened to Perth Oval?" Yeah,they took a nice little "footy" ground & turned it into a unspectacular rectangular ground! Whoever designed the new stand mustn't have come from a place where the rain comes in horizontally. Great spot to sit when it's sunset,too! Apart from that,the big problem with the NIB is the difficulty of access---you either make the long trek from Claisebrook Station,catch another train to East Perth Terminal,or park illegally at that terminal. I did enjoy the shed,but it always looked as temporary,as it has turned out to be!

"Got to chuckle at the way ARfers go on about how the AFL as a long term tenant makes them an “owner” of the MCG." Nowhere in Perrys post does he suggest being a long term tenant makes the AFL an owner. If that's what you read, read it again. However, an irrefutable fact is this - each year, far more people attend AFL matches at the MCG alone, than attend every single ALeague match around the country, combined. The roughly 2.3M MCG AFL patrons annually, enable The People's Ground to retain its status as the premier stadium in the country and this provides not only for the AFL, but for cricket, rugby, soccer and league and other events.

The NIb stadium is fantastic for rectangular sports and the Glory crowd will hopefully expand into it. I acknowledge my ignorance of the mechanics and finances of expansion, but when I look around Nib I see potential - fill in the 4 corners, knock down the original western stand, knock down or expand the shed and bang, you've got a 50,000 seater (or part standing) stadium. You just need the population and the demand to fill it regularly.

And ALL of the above was done BECAUSE Football delivered the Olympic Games for Sydney!! FULL STOP!................End of argument!!!

Really Bevan? Here is a hint - when you register there are very limited choices and you have no control over the order (they are alphabetical). BRH, shooting is one of the most disciplined and difficult sports to master. In my chosen events 0.14mm can be the difference between winning and losing - but I guess that would be lost on the ignorant.

Thanks for those figures, it gives some sort of basis ... is there any sign that any code/codes could drag in 45 matches per annum with that sort of attendance, and how much would they have to charge per seat? I assume interest rates would be paid for loans, and I assume upkeep is pretty expensive -- although I also assume the place would be plastered with advertising, too.

"Noone is calling it wasteful" Have a read above before commenting Bevan. "The AFL are blood sucking parasites!" Yes, by your logic, the one sporting competition in the country which pays for stadiums (rather than relying on 100% govt funding) is a parasite. Perhaps get a dictionary before commenting too.

I believe Victoria Park is on the state heritage list, or similar, so you would think that that would complicate any major changes there. It may not stifle redevelopment per se, but may stop it from being turned into a proper rectangular stadium.

@nodster Maybe you could convince the government that the best way Australia could help West Africa to deal with Ebola, is to save (ENSLAVE) the healthy ones and get them o work for banana's. YOUR A DISGRACE.,,,,, YOU TIP RAT.

Pulling a trigger is hardly a sport.

If there is evidential and reasonable demand for new stadiums, yes. At the moment, crowd figures generally don't suggest a need to build new A-League stadiums, only redevelopments seem reasonable. There was one need for a new stadium, and that been addressed, the 30,000 seater AAMI Park.

Ahhh but it is ok to "waste" taxpayer's money on AFL/cricket infrastructure right Lee??

#Bevan - you sound like Michael Cockerill 5 years ago. He rather greatly misrepresented facts back then. Mike Cockerill made this comment back in 2009 "At the 2000 Olympic Games, football was again sold short by the politicians and the lobbyists. The money spent on the Gabba, where cricket and AFL co-habit, remains an especially sore point for football, which had been hoping for a new rectangular stadium in Brisbane instead." The Gabba was a multi (6) stage upgrade over about 12 years from 1993 master plan through to 2005. It had precious little to do with the fact that once the Olympics happened that a handful of soccer matches were held there. What did happen was that a stage was accelerated to be completed to that it wasn't a construction zone during the Olympics. Stages 4 and 5 had been completed by late 1999 (East/West stands and Sth Stand) - they were always part of the plan. It is true that the catalyst for getting stage 5 (the Southern Stand) going to that time frame was to be ready for the 2000 Olympics. That wasn't the catalyst to have it part of the 6 stage plan though. Was it justifiable to build a whole new facility for a couple of games of Olympic Under 23 soccer? I reckon tax payers would be satisfied enough - as this didn't call upon funding for a project that wasn't due to get funding anyway. Obviously had Lang Park been in the middle of development then that might have been a better option for soccer. Soccer people can simply complain that the Govt was being so financially responsible but it sure as heck wasn't new development/funding as it was well progressed to an existing master plan. The MCG - what upgrade are you trying to take credit for and what Govt funds? See my above post illustrating the $576 mill of funding (only $77 mill govt) over the two rebuild phases. One 91/92 in time for the cricket WC and the other across 2003-05 in time for the 2006 Commonwealth Games. So - where exactly do you believe the handful of games held in 2000 sits. Oh - they did specifically remove the camber of the field so soccer players could have a flat surface. Yeah. I'm sure many cricket batters have lamented the loss of that camber since than as A. the bowlers no longer run uphill to bowl, and B. the ball doesn't roll away quite so gravity assisted as it did previously. Good work soccer!!! Cockerill said this about the AFL funding from Govts. "AFL has received about $453m from the three tiers of government - almost six times that received by football. From the $77m it has received from Canberra for redevelopment work at the MCG, to the $28m it received for Skilled Stadium in Geelong" Now - as I've illustrated above - the $77 mill for the MCG was firstly from Vic Govt and NOT from Canberra And a minor point - the AFL didn't get any of it. The MCC got the money. The MCC (cricket club) operate the venue on behalf of the MCG trust. The AFL pays (at the time excessively) for the right to play there (on a 45 yr lease). The Geelong references by Cockerill odd too - as Geelong stadium - while used by the AFL Geelong FC - is owned by the city of Geelong. And every stage of redevelopment has tended to be a 3 tier of Govt plus AFL plus Geelong FC co-funding arrangement. The 1st phase in 2003 was a $28 mill with $4.5 mill from GeelongFC and $2 mill from the AFL. By 2006 another $26 mill of works with combined $20 mill from Fed and State Govt. So - even looking at this you ask just where Cockerill plucked $28 mill from?? So - I caution you about rehashing this argument. It's holds about as much water as the extension of it at the time which was that the AFL should sign a blank cheque to allow the FFA what they wanted because the AFL would gain (on a timetable based around a 2022 tournament) all these great stadium improvements (compromised as rectangularisable) that - ironically - have pretty well come to fruition on a 2014-2015 timetable already.

Noone is calling it wasteful, but the AFL has been given a free leg up from its media mates, ie. through outrageous monetary gifts dressed up as tv rights deals out of ALL proportion to the games popularity and similarily outrageous freebee infrastructure deals/gifts from compliant state governments!! Gifts and special deals that Football and its fans have NEVER been afforded in this country!! The AFL are blood sucking parasites!

Got to chuckle at the way ARfers go on about how the AFL as a long term tenant makes them an "owner" of the MCG. Apparently, by paying rent for use of premises, means the AFL owns the joint. Here's a bit of news. .. Every tenant is "paying for" the property that the landlord owns. It doesn't give the tenant even 1 cent of equity in the property. It simply gives them tenancy rights. And, for sporting stadiums, "tenancy rights" seem pretty flexible.

Rabbitz Roar Guru About Member Since: April 2010 Based In: Northern Sydney Favourite Sports: *****Cricket******, Motor, Rugby, ENOUGH SAID!!

melbourneterrace - the MCG is a bad example. It's been rebuilt entirely in 2 distinct phases since about 1990. The first being the Great South Stand. This was funded via MCC debt based upon the AFL signing up to a 40 year lease. This was in part because the AFL had been agitating for decent facilities since the Vic Govt scuppered their plans to expand Waverley Park and transfer the GF there. The VFL park members who'd been signing up on the promise of access to the GF were made 'AFL members' with an exclusive section in this near Great Southern Stand. The 2nd phase was the rest of the ground at $434 million - and to be completed in time for the 2006 Commonwealth Games. Because of this - the Govt loosened the purse strings - but this was troublesome too - the Howard Feds promised $113 million - but with workplace IR strings heavily attached. The Labour Vic govt rejected that - and stumped up $77 million. Pretty paltry in the scheme of things though. The AFL agreement was pushed out to 45 years. Revenue wise - the AFL is predominantly paying for it - along with actual payments. Cricket revenue really only comes from at best 10 days of internationals and mebbe a couple of BBL games now. MCC membership revenue is the other key element and again the value proposition is dominated by the AFL (esp GF/Finals) and from cricket - Boxing Day test - day 1. Final equation => Total cost $576 million. Govt funds = $77 million. MCC debt of $499 million. Sp soccer folk - if you want an MCG - then take the financial risk in partnership with an operator. Commit for 45 years and pay heaps for the rights. Ever wonder why the AFL and Demetriou got a little protective of the venue during the WC bid?? The Adelaide Oval is interesting too - a good amount of funds for it had been allocated to improving public transport out to the SANFL owned Football Park (AAMI Stadium). However - with the AFL brokered deal that finally brought the SANFL and SACA together to redevelop the Adelaide Oval - these funds were redirected to this project. Football Park will be reduced to 15,000 capacity or so - the SANFL is selling off some of the surrounding land. And for the taxpayer funds on the stadium project there's good amounts too that are non-stadium related but focussed on the general riverside precinct and the connection back to the city. And I think the result is clear to be seen as a great one - pending both AFL clubs ensuring that they don't need 45,000 to break even!! See story from yesterdays Adelaide Addie here (http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/stadium-review-at-adelaide-oval-enters-106th-day-with-port-adelaide-needing-new-deal-to-capitalise-on-afl-fixture/story-fni5f9de-1227108423933) Blacktown is an odd example - as given the cost of $27 million - over 20% was non-Govt (AFL and Cricket put in $5.75 million to what becomes a public asset). I'm not sure where the FFA or NRL have been putting millions into stadia. It seems out of the ordinary the Townsville Super CBD development where the NRL committed to put in about $10 mill. It certainly became topical in NSW this year with the Govt declaring that it would no longer fund suburban venues - the revelation that a $29 mill govt funding to Parramatta provided only 4000 extra seats (plus improved training facilities). That's over $7000 per seat - very expensive for a suburban venue. That's about on a par with the per seat cost of the MCG replacement of the Ponsford, Northern and Members stands but that was for 55-60,000 people! Basically - the golden goose lays eggs that are pretty tough to crack. There's not many free lunches. The free-est still looks to be Melbourne's AAMI park for soccer.