While Adelaide United’s foreign contingent of Spaniards and an Argentine were impressing all in the FFA Cup final on Tuesday night, there was another game involving the A-League imports being played at Hindmarsh Stadium.
According to a report on the News network, A-League club bosses held discussions with the FFA and are making ground in their desire to maintain the status quo on the A-League foreign quota rule for next season.
It’s a discussion that’s been bubbling away in the background for some time after the FFA’s former technical director Han Berger proposed a reduction in the number of imports teams are allowed on the roster, essentially to allow the younger Australian more game-time.
It’s a concept that fundamentally I agree with, but my feeling is it’s too early for the A-League to ditch the five foreigner rule.
Instead what the FFA and A-League bosses should agree on is a “four plus one” rule, meaning five foreigners but one of them being from an Asian confederation country.
It’s a compromise that would brings us closer to the Asian Champions League “three plus one” regulations, and that would also help our clubs transition to competing in that competition.
What we have seen particularly in the past five years is a continued improvement in the standard of the A-League and that has largely been down to the improvement in the quality of imports being recruited.
The early days of the A-League were completely dire in terms of foreign recruitment with far too many average journeymen from the UK and other parts being given professional contracts at the expense of the better Australians kicking about in the state leagues.
I think of players like Sean Devine, Ronnie Bull, Remo Buess, Steve MacMahon Jr, Edmundo Zura, Richard Kitzbichler and Marcus Wedau, to name a few.
With the early standard poor in the main, it resulted in a large turn off from fans, and it took at least five seasons for A-League clubs to start to get it.
Once we started to see the likes of Carlos Hernandez then Thomas Broich and Besart Berisha arrive you knew the league was starting to head in the right direction in terms of the type of foreigner it was sourcing.
These days as we look around we can see the emphasis is very much on attracting quality technical players that can make a difference in attack and help A-League clubs control games through quality work on the ball.
Take these six midfielders as an example: Isaias, Albert Riera, Milos Dimitrijevic, Roly Bonevacia, Nebo Marinkovic and Marcelo Carrusca.
The add these six attackers – Sergio Cirio, Pablo Sanchez, Fahid Ben Khalfallah, Berisha, Broich and Andy Keogh – and you an see the quality currently running around in the top half of the pitch.
These days the quality of the recruitment and retention of foreigners is absolutely critical in how a team performs.
Take a look at the recently successful trio of the Brisbane Roar, Western Sydney Wanderers and Central Coast Mariners and you can see how their poor recruitment and retention this season has impacted their performances and positions on the ladder.
The Roar, for example replaced Berisha with Mensur Kurtishi and are only using four of their five foreign spots. A coach change later, with Broich on the sidelines, they rely heavily on an attacker in Henrique who has been up an down in his A-League career.
The Wanderers have replaced Shinji Ono and Youssouf Hersi with Vitor Saba and Romeo Castelen, both struggling with the physical requirements of the league, and are using three of their five spots for defensive players.
The Mariners, meanwhile, have had to go budget and you an see the impact this has had, with Australians out of the state league like Glen Trifiro and Matt Sim even outshining the likes of Malick Mane, Kim Seung-Yong and Richard Vernes.
Even the much talked about Melbourne City have made significant mistakes with their foreigners. Never mind the fact that David Villa was only here for four of his 10 games, or that we are yet to see Robert Koren, but the retention of Robbie Wielaert in the off-season makes the mind boggle.
Yet for all this hit and miss that remains in A-League recruitment and retention, the sad reality is that we’ve not quite got a production line of local talent ready to take up the spots that are otherwise being used by foreigners.
This problem is particularly relevant in the front third, where we have seen very few players step up from the National Premier Leagues and cement a standing as A-League stars.
The clear reason is that the standard between the best front third players in the NPLs and the best in the A-League remains significant and has only increased in the past three or four seasons as foreign recruitment has gotten better.
Yes, we are still seeing the odd kid like Daniel de Silva or Awer Mabil come through the development pathway and get their opportunities, and this is to be applauded, but in the main there isn’t enough quality yet.
The feeling remains across most clubs that if you want to challenge for silverware, the majority of your difference players in the front third have to be the finished product rather than something that is being “worked-on”.
This is why it is paramount over the next five years that A-League clubs set up and embed their own development pathways into the first team.
This is a point that the great Mark Vidua recently made on Santo, Sam and Ed’s Total Football.
Until we see the fruits of the FFA’s national player and coaching curriculum pathway come through in the next five years, the sad reality is that we need quality foreigners to maintain and improve the standard of the league.
But any foreigner that does come should be significantly better than what’s available here, and that’s why it’s important the pressure remains on club to recruit and retain better.
By moving to a “four plus one” that puts pressure on club bosses to invest in better technical scouting networks and be more selective.
What would also be great to see is a move to one of the spots being from Asia, and this will significantly help those clubs moving from competing in the A-League to the ACL.
The upcoming Asian Cup gives smart clubs a prime scouting showcase.
So at least for the next three seasons, as clubs move to build and embed their development structures and bring more kids through, it makes sense to stick with five foreigners, but they should be of a high quality, with one from our own Asian confederation.
Jack Peters
Guest
The ACL and the A-League are 2 different comps. Of course we comply with that ACL but that doesn't mean we should restrict the potential for quality players abroad coming to play in the A-League. You could just leave out some of the internationals when the ACL rolls around. It's a silly proposition to say "If we have more foreigners, the Australians wont have a chance". Well thats on them, if they are good enough, they will make the cut. If not, too bad, thats Football. The best Australian talent have traditionally gone overseas instantly like many have done in the past. Back in the NSL days the cream of the crop generally didn't play in the NSL and went for a direct move overseas, example; Lucas Neill, Harry Kewell etc. Those players are special so they are capable of it, and those are the only players we should be looking for, the best. And there lies the point, there's no reason on giving a bunch of duds game time that leads to nothing. Its nonsensical. Theres a reason that the top of Europe doesn't do it this way. From studies, a Technical players development ends at a young age (10-14 years) Based on that i don't see what the A-League actually does playing an 18-24 year olds who clearly aren't at the level and stifle the potential for growth of a competition with so much ahead of it. Common sense will win out in the end. At this point it's all politics.
j binnie
Guest
Fuss - Points taken but why extract 4 names out of the 300 or so who are reputed to have moved overseas in the late 80's / 90'S. and build a hypothesis on these 4.???? As I said further down, the theme of this discussion was not who played where and when, it was whether we are now producing enough talent to fill places on our top league and at this point in time I am afraid the high number of imports being brought into the country is giving a resoundinng thumbs down to the state of affairs that others in the media ranks would have us believe.(You will note this morning Arnold is reported to be chasing a striker from South America.!!!!!) As I have said to you before ,the day the HAL is peopled solely by Australian bred and born players and our Socceroos are performing accordingly,will be the day I will think we have truly "arrived". Fuss ,Ive been waiting for that day now for over 40 years and it pains me when I think of the number of times my hopes have risen only to be dashed by some crises in the game.However we live and hope. Cheers jb
Barca4life
Guest
Jack dont you realise the AFC only allows 4 foreign players that allowed to play in the Asian Champions League? So Australian players will still need to used for the purpose *cough* *cough*. And by the way the huge difference between a lot of league and ours is they have many teams plus a second division below that, so you decide to field 11 foreigners you will basically killed off the football here if would force australian players to go overseas seeking football given there is only 9 australian teams plus wellington. You might want our league to be a 'mini' EPL but it would seriously hurt the national team like or not. Have you thought about some of the 'Mediocre' players that graced our league it goes both ways.
Fussball ist unser leben
Roar Guru
@jb You are putting words into my post. I'm not trying to sell anything. Franko provided names of 4 attacking players who debuted at young ages in the NSL. I provided evidence that these 4 players were born just before the NSL competition started & I hypothesised that, if we are to compare the quality of youngsters being developed by the NSL & HAL, we need to wait another 4-5 seasons. As Franko rightly pointed out, the HAL clubs don't develop juniors right now. Hence, all the failings we currently see across young Aussie players we must attribute to the way they were taught to play football at grassroots level ... well before they joined the A-League. In relation to your question: Does that mean there was a wasteland of Australian talent between 1977 and 2005????? Not 1977 & 2005. But certainly there was a wasteland 2002-2005 when the NSL was dying, or dead. Hence, the current paucity of high technical quality AUS players. If the HAL started in 2005, it's ridiculous to blame - or to credit - the HAL in 2014 for the junior development (let's say, up to age 18) of any Australian footballer.
Towser
Guest
Interesting jb. Seems lack of long term planning in football at club level here goes back a long way. IMO the more debate with practical examples on this subject the better,whether their on the money or wildly off the mark. In the end we all want the game to keep improving and continually assessing it(A-League in this case)on evidence so far is worthwhile. Let's hope the powers that be are doing the same.
j binnie
Guest
Towser- An interesting comment with a genuine attempt at coming up with a solution bearing in mind quality v affordability in different levels of "quality". From my own experience I have found that this approach does work for back in the early 80's while involved with an NSL team a plan was devised not dissimilar to what you are describing.You will appreciate it was a semi-professional environment and it was decided a "team structure" would be devised using both money,and opportunity, to establish a "stairway to the stars" so to speak.The "top team" at that time consisted of six or seven "imports" and these players were financially rewarded according to the standard of football that they offered.Mostly this was in a range of money between say $300-$200 per match (if you were picked to play). The remaining 4 or 5 players were covered by 2 factors,they had to be "young",they had to be" local" and these players were either covered by a $100 range or were of an "amateur "status, this allowing them to leave the club if they so desired. The effects that grew out of this plan were actually multiple,we never denied there were players earning $300 per game and of course this created an "attraction" to the club,when in fact only 3 or 4 very experienced players were on that money,the rest of the payments nearer the $200 per match.At the other end of the scale,with 3 or 4 local youngsters constantly in "the frame" of the first team, if one of these lads showed improvement and it was felt he had a long term future he could be introduced onto a professional status under the $100 per match financial reward. This system worked very well though it required almost constant application to the 4 "levels" of quality,the top,the intermediate, the "new pros", and the constant feed of young talent from the amateur ranks to keep the system working. This system worked well for 3 or 4 years but with the ever changing personnel in management it was allowed to "flag" by people more interested in instant success at top team level than the long term viability of producing their own players. You may well ask how did the team perform under these conditions,they finished 6th in a very competitive league 9 points covering 9 teams in a 16 team competition.They also won the the National trophy winning the final in Canberra.That team actually had 3 young locals in the run on side and another 2 took part as substitutes. Could it have continued to be successful if it had been properly managed,who knows???? and this is the real problem in Australian football,we do not advance at the same rate as other countries and I'm afraid the cause for that does not always land at the feet of the players we have,imported or home grown. Your mate jb.
Jack Peters
Guest
bondy, Let me ask you, how many over 35 year old imports we have in the league currently? That point would have made sense a couple of years ago, however, the imports have improved over time. Now you are seeing players like Keogh, Ben Khalfallah etc. In terms of the national team, it can still be good without killing the quality of the A-League. Look at the Liga BBVA for example. Common sense will prevail in the end and there will be an increased amount of imports over time because the A-League has to compete with many other sports. On field quality will be a priority in Football becoming the number 1 sport in the next 20 years.
j binnie
Guest
Fuss - This reply is beneath your normal debating standard.What you are trying to sell us is that we are only going to get good Aussie players because of a curriculum that started in planning just before the HAL started.Does that mean there was a wasteland of Australian talent between 1977 and 2005?????Of course it wasn't, the real exodus of players to overseas started after the great showings by Arok's home grown Socceroos betweeen 1983 and 89. overseas clubs began to take note and the dribble soon became a torrent. This discussion is about whether the HAL should allow more imports or cut back on the number allowed. As you know I don't have any allegience to any team in the HAL so tend to watch games with what I could term an unjaundiced eye,and to be honest I don't think our local content has improved all that much compared with our so called "Golden Generation". One has only to watch David Carney performing with the Jets to see that his basic skills and comprehension of the game is levels above what his teamates are achieving.The opposite is evident at Adelaide where four or five foreigners are delightful to watch and of course Victory have a few in that category as well.Arnold has stated he is not happy with Sydney and will be going after players,would you care to guess where he will look first,here or ovrerseas.??? The answer to that question is the root of this discussion.With all due respect the top foreign players attracted to the HAL are either past their use-by date or have not been good enough to keep a place in their former teams.That in itself doesn't mean they are bad players but there is strong evidence all around the country that they are still better than our local product and until that gap is bridged our clubs are going to continue with imports. You appear to be putting a lot of faith in the coaching curriculum which has been in vogue for some years now,I prefer to look at a young player who I have watched now for 3 seasons,Goodwin of Adelaide,and wonder how he has managed to improve almost out of sight since his days elsewhere. Now if that question can be answered and acted upon we may just see the day ahead when we can start to consider cutting back on the number of imports. Another angle would be to try and lure some of our most promising "natives" back from clubs where they are just not achieving the standard required. A long and multi sided argument is this one. Your mate jb
Bondy
Guest
You appear to me as somebody who doesn't think of the reflection we give off as a nation Internationally through football, if we dont have Australians playing in the HAL we don't have a National Team "christ" . If the HAL was full of overseas players I for one wouldn't watch it nor attend why should I ,I want to see Australians playing football not 30 Marc Janko's thanks, and also the only true top draw International Footballers who've played in the HAL have been over 32 years of age and past their prime being ADP and All Night Dwight thats it .....
Jack Peters
Guest
I have no idea why anyone would think that you should reduce the amount of international players coming in. Its the world game. Teams should be able to have as many internationals as they please. If the Australian is good enough, he will make the cut ahead of the visa players, however, reducing the amount of internationals just kills the quality of the A-League for a slight positive of a better national team in the short term. Even 5 visa players id argue its not enough in a 20 man squad, my preference would be 10 and 1 marquee. Make the mediocre Aussie players fight for their position, don't just hand it to them on a silver platter. This is the classic overvaluing of a national team that's killed growth of many leagues around the world. The sooner we get this silly Australian national team mindset out, the better for the overall growth. Don't stifle the A-Leagues potential for something you don't even know will improve the national team.
Daws
Guest
HAN BERGER...are you serious? Poor bloke.
Jack Peters
Guest
bondy, you are doing the common mistake of overvaluing national players. This is dangerous because this mindset could kill the competition in the future as most of the players will be mediocre national players.
Jack Peters
Guest
melbourneterrace, This argument overvalues the international stage and sacrifices the national leagues quality.
Bondy
Guest
Catnap Doesn't matter a lot of people cant notice the difference in quality anyway ,people here do, but not at the ground or at home watching, as somebody has suggested crowds were better when the league was of a poorer quality ... Its only people like you who are trying to run it down in fear of " major" loss of quality .. I use to argue with a bloke called TC here,unique username by the way ....
Catnap
Guest
I would suggest to you the majority of goals scored and created are by imports at the moment if you take that away we might as well watch the npl !!!
Midfielder
Guest
Every club cannot be a big club... our system however imperfect allows for two marquees in the first team and one marquee in the youth team.... Effectively allowing a team using the marquees to spend far more than the salary cap ... its actually not such a bad system as it allows the smaller clubs WHICH ARE needed for the league to run. A 12 team league provides 198 games + finals and more than likely an extra ACL place ... A 10 team league has 135 games + finals... Consider 198 - 135 is 63 games ... 63 as a percentage of 135 games is 47% ... Accordingly even if everything remains the same it will produce a 47% increase in revenue for and extra 2/10 or 20% in teams... There is a good argument for the smaller clubs to be given a small grant in the next media deal... say Mariners, Jerks and Nux each received a grant of 667K each or two million dollars ... the clubs are profitable and the revenue base protected... Why I like our current system is because it does allow bigger clubs to get some advantage using marquess but not so much advantage that smaller clubs cannot compete.
Franko
Guest
On another note, very interested to see how the fall of the $AUD plays out for our local comp. Pretty sure ADP signed with the $AUD was outstripping the $USD, now we are about 81c and falling. For many foreign players, thats a reduction of 20% in wages.
Franko
Guest
Nothing stopping them, but when they debut a 16-17 year old striker in the first team, he is no longer up against the nations best and therefore is not tested in the same way. A young Paul Agostino today would need to play well in the NPL, then catch the eye of a A-League side and be bought. He'd then be under a new coach, new system and have new demands, potentially in a different city. The A-League club may see a young Paul Agostino and invest in his talent by bringing him over to their NYL side and progressing him to the first team, and no doubt to some extent they do. But they also have the option to go and purchase a Sergio Cirio, Emile Heskey, Edson Montano. Ask yourself if you were an A-League coach, would you persevere with Brandon Borello or Kurtiši / Henrique..? That's not to say the path is now harder or easier, but it is certainly different and may be one of the reasons we are struggling to produce top line strikers like we used to.
BES
Guest
Let me throw in another curved ball. I believe whether we reduce the quantity of imports or increase the local youth, we are still facing a fatal flaw in the current system. Everyone would surely agree that both Broich and Berisha are 2 of - if not THE 2 - top imports ever in the league. Neither of them came in as marque players - but became marque status after they got here. But the club who did the hard work in tracking down such quality and then developing/giving them the opportunity to shine was then kicked in the groin by not being allowed to keep the player they had found/developed. But this same limitation does not only apply to imports - it happens with our youth as well. Train up and develop a quality youth player, make him the youth marque (which was a great development by FFA) but then what? As soon as that player no longer fits under the age criteria as a youth - you cant afford to keep him either as you are only allowed one marque player - so once again, the club that does all the right things in developing players up to marque status then gets disadvantaged and has to let them go? THIS is the real issue needing addressing I feel.
Chris Kettlewell
Roar Guru
I have commented in the past that the A-League coming in could in some ways increase the number of decent Australian players but reduce the number of great Australian players. The reason being, the hard road often produces the better quality. If players have to fight to be better than they are to even get a game anywhere, then they'll make themselves better than they will if their current level can see them with a regular starting spot. If it's made easier for young Australian players to be key, starting players in A-League teams, that's not going to make them better players, it's just going to have more mediocre players with more professional experience. If they have to work incredibly hard at bettering themselves to get a chance because the overall standard of the A-League is higher, then that is actually a better thing. it is better for the Socceroos for Australia to have fewer players of higher quality, than more players of poor to average quality. That is where the argument of reducing foreigners being a help falls down. If you have a 16-17 year old in your team who's the next Lionel Messi, do you really think he's going to fail to get a game because of any of the foreigners in the league? If they can show the coach they are better than the foreigners in the team, they'll get the game-time. If they aren't better than them and it forces them to work really hard to get better, then you've turned them into a better player.