Mariners lose 3-1 in ACL playoff against Guangzhou

RBB - Talk about a record going round and round. Let's leave it alone and continue to think what we think and give other readers a rest. Cheers jb.

@ JB Straight from Mr Ed's mouth "That is 20% of their outfield player talent so in that area alone Victory’s wealth has an obvious advantage over CCM,who,I have to assume from your words ,cannot afford marquee players." Logic would say that if two teams have the same amount to spend being MV and CCM and if MV have an advantage of 20% in outfield playing as mentioned by yourself. Then that is what the gap is. They both have the same spending power, they have the same opportunity to get similar squads. There is no widening gap. This has been shown because every other year CCM has been at or near the top of the A-league tree.

RBB - " There is no widening of a gap on the field" You then go on to cite 20% as an acceptable measure. How did you arrive at that figure of 20% Try as I might I cannot work out the answer to that. The top 3 teams have at this point amassed 92 points. They have scored 98 goals. They have conceded 60 goals. The bottom 3 teams at this point have amassed 32 points. They have scored 40 goals. They have conceded 88 goals. Can't get these figures to signify anywhere near a 20% differential. No worries.!!!!!!! jb

@ JB There is no widening of a gap on the field. That is the point I am addressing. I can live with a 20% gap between the top and bottom teams in the A-league. Don't be such a worry merchant :)

Just for a little information re the Perth Glory crowd. That is our traditional New Years Eve game, where you can go to the Gosford races during the day and then watch the Mariners game (free entry if you went to the races) and then afterwards on the foreshore you have fireworks at 9 O'clock. It is a big event and helps drive more people to the game. Unfortunately due to the Asian cup this year we were not scheduled with a New years eve game. Also we only have 1 Derby game against Newcastle at home this year and only play both Sydney FC and WSW (who we haven't played yet) at home once as well. Last year the two games we played against WSW made up over 21% of our total attendance for the season - which is due to the away support that WSW bring with them.This unfortunately does not help our average attendances. Also the fact that we are struggling this year as well and it is no surprise our crowds have gone down.

RBB - Yes,I do like your wording in answer to my question on how Adelaide or Victory would have gone against the Chinese,after all we cannot ever forecast the outcome of a game,can we???. You go on to expound the benefits of the salary cap and how it acts as a great leveller but don' go into the other ways in which it may affect the recruitment of players,especially those who may be contemplating coming from overseas. Does the salary cap cover things like accomodation costs,travel grants, clothing, holidays, football gear, I could go on but you'll get the message. You attempt to drawa line between Victory with Milligan and Berisha and without those two.That is 20% of their outfield player talent so in that area alone Victory's wealth has an obvious advantage over CCM,who,I have to assume from your words ,cannot afford marquee players. Is that not the very point I am trying to get across to you. Cheers jb

The Central Coast Community are showing that they are tired of being dictated to by an owner who doesnt give a toss about the locals. The 7-8k rusted on fans that have been carrying the club are getting tired of being shafted. And thanks for your insight. Not.

Bit unfair mate you've condemned half the league there .

j binnie I agree somewhat the Mariners have no attacking midfield too with predominantly holding or fouling midfielders with no through ball skill or running or dribbling ability toward the 18 yard box, its hard to define whether our forwards are actually any good they never see the ball and when we do encroach near the 18 yard box somebody blasts in hast at goal with no thought of territorial possession in the attacking third . The team needs players like Rogic , Amini plus Ferreira to be competitive on all fronts,our days of being a more than competitive club are far gone ,the owner coach and to some extent the players have brought this upon themselves ..

To answer your question I believe Victory and Adelaide would have given a better account of themselves. Both teams have recruited well and are well coached. They play a positive brand of football. All three teams have the same opportunity in terms of fielding the same team because they operate under the same salary cap of 2.55m per season. Yes granted MV have use of Mark Milligan and also Besart Berisha who are the Marquees for the club. This is the only difference I can find between the sides in what they produce on the field. So in essence CCM could field a team with the quality of MV without those two players because they operate within similar constraints. The affordability of players. You can cite all you want about Merchandise sales and crowd numbers of one being bigger than the other. In those terms yes the gaps are wide but not in terms of the players that they can all put on the pitch. I hope that clears that up for you.

Roarfan - There is statistic that beggars description. In the last two seasons CCM's best home gates have coincided with visits from WSW,Sydney FC, and Jets, games that would attract "travelling" support. But there are 2 games that buck the trend and that is the crowds drawn in the two previous seasons against Perth Glory when 12,900 turned up last year and 14,600,the year before. Try explaning that anomaly to somebody. jb

Rbb ."Have and have not"????. Melbourne Victory- Average income from gates for season 2014/15. 13 home matches at an average of 27,895 per game at say $30/ head. = $10,880,000 CCM -Average income from gates for season 2014/15. 13 games at an average of 7,745 per game at say $30 / head = $ 3,020,500 Now that differential of nearly $8,000,000 does not include the extraordinary income from sales of club clothing etc so it is feasible the difference could get as high as $10,000,000 per year. Now as far as your reference to the salary cap, without knowing if you have ever ran a professional football team,I can only say there are many ways to "skin a cat" and the differential shown above does give Victory a huge advantage in the player market,and I think you would even agree with that. You slip back into the coaching field and to me that is a cop out,coaches don't play games players do and that is how I judge a team's performance,no matter who the coach is? After all that is the owners problem not mine as a viewing public. Did I claim to know something about what was going to happen in the future,I don't recollect so can't be lying can I???? RBB,the league is young,it has teething problems not the least of which the rich will be getting richer and the poor poorer and if some equating factor is not found soon then the problem is only going to increase. I don't want CCM ,Jets and Nix to vanish out of the league, that would only exacerbate the problem but the present differential cannot be allowed to continue or we will end up with money, and it's influence, dominating our HAL. Ok? Note you didn't venture a guess at how Victory or Adelaide would have gone against the Chinese team the other night . !!!!! Cheers jb

The Australia v England Cricket WC game was on at the time. That would have taken several thousand off the gate. I wouldn't be too concerned. Plus we have to accept that the derbies in both cities are by far the preeminent game. The Big Blue just isn't very big any more.

The 2700 that turned up for the ACL match is just beyond words. Granted that this was a mid week match but surely CCM fans would have liked to see their team play Ghangzhou RF and start the ACL campaign with a positive! Instead they have almost given up on their team with dismal turnout -no doubt the players would have been affected. The mass production line of quality players has almost finished with Duke's departure- and simply flogging off your best players will eventually have a negative knock on to the cohesiveness of the team. if anything it highlights the magnificent work that Arnold performed on a shoestring budget!

JB, CCM have every opportunity to recruit players just like Adelaide and MV. That is the beauty of the salary cap. Has CCM done a good job of recruiting players and holding onto them, I will leave you to decide. The only facet that CCM do not compete in is getting a Marquee player, although, they do have that opportunity. I am a little unsure if Adelaide have a Marquee but they seem to be doing fine without one as are several other teams. There is a gulf between the teams sure but, there is no wide gap of have and have not. As I pointed out in my earlier post all the teams who were coming in at the pointy end a few years ago are now at the bottom and those who were at the bottom only a few years ago are now at the top. If you think there is a massive gap, then fine. The CCM will eventually get back to the top of the tree one season. It might even be next year, we dont know. If you say you know, then you are lying. Even when teams spend big like Sydney FC have in the past its no guarantee of success, Melbourne likewise a few years ago when Harry Kewell was in the time. This year I put it down to bad coaching from Phil Moss and terrible recruitment, they just need to do a better job because if memory serves me correctly this is possibly their worst season in 10 years in the A-league. So in other words they have been consistently good year after year after year. In one bad year you have summed them up as being a have not and the gap widening between teams..........really. Interesting conclusion.

The answer, very clearly now, is No. FFA had better make sure they have a contingency plan for another team next season, even if it means bankrolling the new club itself. The Mariners were a brave experiment. It just hasn't worked. Regional A League clubs look to be off the agenda in the foreseeable future.

Pretty soon most people with a reasonably good memory will be able to recite Phil Moss' same old, same old. Last night's game was boring, uninspiring and lacking any signs of possible improvement for the remainder of the season. The Mariners lack players that have that little extra and can produce excitement and special skills that help win games and entertain the crowds. Every year they part with their best players and I am starting to wonder if it is just the money that causes the players to leave. What is their dressing room really like? The 'lack' of good crowds is another real concern and the inadequate support, because of low numbers, doesn't help the team very much either. After all the kafuffle and mass protests about some home games being played away from Gosford, the crowds are even worse. In my calculation at least 4000 supporters have gone awol. Come on central coast, do you want an HAL team or not?

It is notional, same as saying 23 million in Australia. That said, the 'Nix's fan base isn't constrained to Wellington. 20,000 turned up to watch Adelaide and Phoenix play in Christchurch a few years back. Then there's the matter of the Australian TV rights that are expanded due to the extra fixtures a 10th club provides. Take the Phoenix out and you need to replace it with a viable Australian club just to end up with a reduced financial position from the one currently enjoyed.....but if such a viable club exists why not keep the 'Nix and bring in the new club. This increases the amount of product & hence value of the TV rights and football in Australia enjoys an improved financial position. That said I do agree that we should be getting a lot more out of the NZ market and an Auckland side may well be the answer.

RBB -You are off again on what has been,what is, and what might come about, You set yourself up as a problem solver citing good coaches, bad coaches and those in between but seem to ignore that in many of these teams good players have left and been replaced by half-ready recruits from local leagues while other clubs have bitten the bullet and gone recruiting overseas for players with experience and know -how. I work differently, I watch teams on a week to week basis and assess what I see in these games.irrespective of whatever teams ,clubs, or franchises are top or bottom at that point in time. Last night CCM were shown up as a bad football team.That's what I saw and what I passed comment on. In recent weeks I have watched Victory and Adelaide and found them playing a brand of football that I enjoy,not because they are playing like Barcelona but because their players are working very hard at keeping mistakes to a minimum So yu see RBB I am nota "worrywort" just someone who watches and learns from what I see. Now a question for you.Doyou think Adelaide or Victory would have lost 0-3 to the Chinese team that was on show,????? It is an opinionative question I know but it may help you to see the game as I see it. Someof the clubs you mention Roar and CCM being two have in recent years saw a constant outflow of players and I would put it to you those same players have not been replaced with like talent. Result--A drop in standard. jb

Arnold - I didn't mention my team as if was not relevant- their future is not in question as they are successful both on and off the pitch. Sadly the same cannot be said of three teams I listed which are constantly teetering on the brink of insolvency and lack the fan numbers or corporate support to keep going in the medium to long term. Gallop has expressed his desire for future franchises to be given to cities with populations in the millions not the hundreds of thousands. Given this it is fair to say that had Gallop had the reins of the FFA in 2004/5 then the Mariners, Jets and Phoenix would never had existed and he will be reluctant to bail them out in the future once other teams in the state capitals are established in the next few years. It was a terrible mistake to establish a league teams in small or medium towns and the results have been disastrous. It seems that the FFA have finally realized this.