This is the forum for Roarers to share their thoughts, fears and (happy) tears about the scrum. Everybody is welcome. Forwards, backs, referees, fans, non-fans.
This is the place to inspect and measure the big squeeze. Which players and teams are the best? Who is the fairest? They are not always the same thing.
The Scrumma-mogram: Showcasing one of rugby’s best assets
The scrumma-mogram espouses the scrum’s benefits and its role in making the glorious game of rugby – even more glorious. It is also intended to debunk common household myths about the foundation of rugby:
First myth: there is a myth that the scrum cancerously eats into valuable ‘running rugby’ time, especially of the illustrious Randwick variety. No way!
Second myth: there are those who think that the scrum is a dark and dirty practice, instead of a display of power and commitment to the team. No way!
Finally, there is the myth that only scrummagers can appreciate the scrum. No way!
Diggercane says: You see, the scrum is a thing of beauty and defines this game of rugby union, the constant battle for possession. It is not merely a way to have a quick breather or to restart play; it is a test of character, teamwork, skill, technique and cunning.
It is a weapon. It is something which takes years to foster, develop and perfect. It is its own martial art, split with eight different forms. It allows you to stamp your mark on a match, to test your opponent, remind him of his place. The scrum provides you with a stable platform to attack, a means to win back possession if you are good enough, and a way to earn opportunities for points if you are a smart enough.
There is no better feeling than driving your opponents back and into the dirt. To dominate. To stand over your opponent and politely enquire after their family’s health. It feeds the primeval blood lust in all of us, but done with finesse and exhibiting control.
It separates the men from the boys, or more to the point, the forwards from the backs.
So why the name “Scrum-mogram”? We have all heard about the mammogram. Just like a scrum, it is an instrument that squeezes the most uncomfortable places. Its value lies in measuring and monitoring your physical condition – with the general intention to show you are cancer free.
Just like the mammogram, the Scrumma-mogram delivers a good squeeze of the big squeeze, for close inspection. It highlights the strategy, preparation, and execution of the scrum in more detail and in some cases, in slow-motion. This way, you can start to see the game within the scrum in itself. Hopefully, you will see that the game time taken by scrums is not a cancer in rugby. But it is instead, a wholesome and magnificent integral part of the game.
We will look at different aspects, depending on the occasion. On most occasions, we highlight how it impacts the game. It ranges from player selection, match ups, execution and details such as binds, engagement, posture, coordination, push, hook, clearance etc.
Diggercane says: It’s about broadening our own knowledge. No one knows everything. We can learn from each scrum to gain an appreciation of tactics, form and understanding, of the scrums evolution and how the rules are applied and while trying to analyse, learn from the tried and true knowledge available to us on the Roar.
biltongbek says: Imagine picking up a dozen glass bottles in one go, pretty hard is it not? Now imagine picking them up and squeezing them tight enough so that the tightness of your hold doesn’t allow for one to slip out. That is a solid scrum!
Ireland v New Zealand 1973
Today, we start by looking at a bit of history, the first squeeze by the scrumma-mogram was from 22 years ago. It is a 1973 test match between Ireland hosting the All Blacks. It shows how scrums were engaged, played and refereed – in the good old days. The video speaks for itself.
biltongbek says: Notice how the players dictate the hit, no input from the referee, then watch the bind between the Irish tighthead and New Zealand loose head. The Irishman is binding on the arm, the New Zealand player is slow on the bind and therefore his elbow is pointed towards the ground. If he were faster on the hit and bound first he could square his elbow perpendicular to the ground lock, and have the wood over the Irish prop.
Diggercane says: Wish they would run towards scrums today too. Show a bit more enthusiasm I say!
Chiefs hosting Brumbies: Serious business
We look at a series of serious engagements between some serious forwards, freshly squeezed by the scrumma-mogram. It was a battle royale worthy of note, starring the two Scotts (Sio and Fardy), Rory Arnold, Gerard Butler. Ben Tameifuna also features, the man who’s going to teach Sio a lesson. Others included are Brodie Retallick, Hika Elliot, Liam Messam and Maama Vaipulu. Lesson of this series: ‘He who laughs last, laughs best’.
Diggercane says: The work coming in from the locks is one to take in here, along with the angles of the flankers. If ever there was an example of why the scrum is an eight man effort, the last scrum demonstrates this perfectly along with why depth within a squad is important.
biltongbek says: During the scrum in the final minute, notice the work Brodie Retallick puts in on the tight head side to dominate that scrum.
Rebels hosting Waratahs: Variations of the NSW backpeddle
Finally, a couple of interesting scrums between the Rebels and the Waratahs. The first one shows how scrum halves can play a role in back peddling a scrum – in a unique way. It stars Luke Burgess, Nick Phipps, Michael Hooper, Stephen Hoiles and a try scorer. Oh yes, 13 other guys are also there.
The second scrum highlights Paddy Ryan and Co’s remarkable scrum defence. Check out Jacque Potgieter’s excellent posture and hard yakka at flank. Check out who’s having a good old peek on the other side.
Diggercane says: Halfbacks are a pain. That is all.
Summary
Ok that’s it. I hope it was fun for you guys. We appreciate your thoughts on this. Comments are welcome. Observations are appreciated. Questions are even more appreciated – no question is too stupid. And anyone can answer! Also, feel free to request any other engagements you want to be ‘Scrumma-mogramed’.
Daffyd
Roar Rookie
haha DC... fixing the ruck would take the wisdom of Solomon, the patience of Job and a serious work out lifting mugs & jugs with a few old scheming forwards whose initial response would be to bring back rucking...
pjm
Roar Rookie
The hit was fine when it was average big guys. Now they're a lot stronger and unless each team got a perfect hit and bind the thing would collapse.
RobC
Roar Guru
cheers DC. Good luck this weekend
Digby
Roar Guru
Yeah Soap, I think that could work too, but if at refs discretion or interpretation could create inconsistencies from match to match.
Digby
Roar Guru
Threads like this make the Roar a good place. Really good idea again Rob and hopefully Daffyd can now move on to fixing the ruck? ;)
Daffyd
Roar Rookie
Thanks RobC..appreciate that & again, thanks for raising this vexing subject. I'm starting to think scrums are a bit like the old saying of a crash landing ... any landing you can walk away from is a good landing... Any scrum that the ball comes out from is a good one :)
RobC
Roar Guru
Its certainly a challenge Daffy. Though I think its moved in the right direction since 07, Im with you and others that its not there yet. Will it ever be...? sigh :) btw if you're keen I can include you for previews too. Its pretty much an open forum. You can point some good/bad examples of scrums, reffing etc
Daffyd
Roar Rookie
I agree that strong forwards in the scrum, usually transfers to strong forwards in general. Lineouts by their very nature a different beasts -- I go back to the days when lineouts didn't have a 1m gap, sometimes they'd be long, and sometimes squashed, but no lifting! I'm not saying abolish scrums, but de-empasize the relative importance of them. Scrums should not be allowed to be used instead of lineouts, free kicks, penalties and failed kickoffs et al. They should occur after a knock on or unusual circumstance and be to give the defending team a contest to win it back. If no result occurs then the attacking team gets the use of the ball. Currently the scrum is a shambles and the definition falls apart on "quickly, safely and fairly" Something has to be done. No result = ball to the side that din't originally infringe is sensible. Its easily understood by most people, faster, safer fairer for the players and easier to referee. Remember most of the stuff we see are test level refs and they struggle to get it right. What about the Level one ref trying to get it right?
Daffyd
Roar Rookie
You're right, there is already! Reset scum: ball out the same tunnel: Penalty Kick: Dangerous play, foul play, half back offside, interfering with the half, deliberately and continually kicking the ball out, swinging, half kicking the ball in the scrum, holding, incorrect binding. Losing the feed: scrum wheels through 90 degrees I'm simply saying, no resets when the legal contest has occurred and the scrum has not produced a result: A primary result being the ball should come out! If a scrum is pushed and it goes down, the result is... the attacking side gets the ball! Job done. Get on with it. Therefore: Failed scrum: free kick to the team feeding the scrum.
RobC
Roar Guru
This is a good topic Daffy. I understand your view re restart. I just happen to see it quite differently, due to the dynamics and mechanics of the contest (of lineouts vs scrum). I think lineouts is very much an alien, compared to how scrums are contested. Also, I think the power of the scrum, is something that transfers into the power of Rugby - the rucks. 15.5 I think they changed the interpretation the attacking team to have an advantage. Or would Rugby will be Jake balled to oblivion. Im guessing they need to change that text
Sean Turner
Roar Guru
I miss the days of "the hit", and losing it created a whole new approach for front rowers concerning the scrum. Kevin Mealamu said just after they brought the new crouch touch set a few years ago that because teams could not win off the initial hit, the hooker played a much larger role in actually raking the thing, rather than being part of an 8 man push off offensive scrums, therefore stopping a lot of the enormous pushes you would see. The resets however, i think occurred due to the IRB's creation of the "pause" before the weakened hit. The blokes in the front are what, 110kgs at least? Of course if you make them crouch and hold low down they'll eventually drop their shoulders. These rules seem so logically flawed, i mean maybe the risk of injury is lowered, but i find it hard to believe they did not see such consequences occuring.
RobC
Roar Guru
haha. yes, back to the paradox. The basic question I believe: is short-arm the scrum silver bullet? Im not so sure yet Daffy. I think there's a place for other outcomes such as reset, long-arms, and losing the feed.
Daffyd
Roar Rookie
In many ways you are correct -- even more so years ago when you consider how rugby was played. You never ever saw forwards in the back line -- except in league. All 16 forwards were committed to the ruck and stayed on their feet and pushed and stepped over the ball (and tackled player if he was stupid enough not to get out from underneath 32 feet.) A tackled played who remained in the ruck and protected the ball was usually penalised. Now he is rewarded with retaining possession. Rucks today are also half of the problem stifling running rugby. Question? Why / when did Law 15.5.Stop being enforced? Why is only the tackler expected to move away?? LAW 15.5 (a) A tackled player must not lie on, over, or near the ball to prevent opponents from gaining possession of it, and must try to make the ball available immediately so that play can continue. Sanction: Penalty kick (b) A tackled player must immediately pass the ball or release it. That player must also get up or move away from it at once. Sanction: Penalty kick However, while there are similarities with the ruck and scrum -- the scrum and line out are set pieces with the primary function of restarting play. You can see the similarities in the definitions: DEFINITIONS The purpose of the scrum is to restart play quickly, safely and fairly, after a minor infringement or a stoppage. The purpose of the lineout is to restart play, quickly, safely and fairly, after the ball has gone into touch, with a throw-in between two lines of players.
RobC
Roar Guru
I may be minority in this thread / forum. As I related in a different post here, imo, the scrum is more closely related to the ruck than the lineout Dominant rucks (loose scrums) are like dominant scrums. Both allow for both legal turnovers eg TH, wheel. Both have penalties if the other team engages incorrectly. Also, they both have similar issues re how to police / facilitate them effectively
RobC
Roar Guru
Daley was praying for a penalty try. And the Lord doth bestow favour and honour. hehe
jeznez
Roar Guru
He also allowed a pushover with the Reds prop pushing the scrum forward on his knees! Not his finest hour!
slaven
Guest
I reckon that would be what the experts term 'good cholesterol'.
Absolutely, your reaction time increases, for me it was always about winning the bind vs my opponent, I wanted to hit my spot, get my elbow up before he realised what happened, and it worked a treat.
soapit
Guest
i would also think the abiility to sense and adjust to constant changes in balance would help?
In Brief
Guest
Bit of myth there mate, just look up some of the scrum articles in the UK. It was the British Lions manager in Australia who dubbed scrum penalties a lottery.