Did Carlton make a mistake swapping Josh for Judd?

By Amos Rojter / Roar Rookie

As each Eagles goal painted a fresh shade of red on Mick Malthouse’s complexion, commentators and supporters alike were busily discussing online who got the better deal out of Josh Kennedy and Chris Judd?

Josh Kennedy
On Friday night, it was easy to make a case for Josh Kennedy being the one that got away for Carlton. His amazing 10-goal bag brought back great memories of the big full forward eras.

But would he have been better value at Carlton than Chris Judd? It’s not something you can truly measure. Different players thrive in different environments.

Let’s be clear, neither team has seen any success with either player. Josh Kennedy was young when he left the Blues, and has developed his game as an Eagle. That development would have been different at Carlton, maybe for the better, maybe for the worse. Who’s to say Carlton would not have traded him for lesser value a year or two down the line? Just look at some of the players they have let go in the past few seasons.

Josh Kennedy was a great pickup for the Eagles, but let’s face it, when you are trading for a future Hall of Famer, you have to part with something valuable.

Chis Judd
It really doesn’t take much to pump up Chris Judd’s tyres. He is a legend of the game, who has won almost every award possible (including a Brownlow at Carlton). Although his West Coast career bore a lot more fruit, he did have a hell of a team around him, and was fitter, healthier and a lot faster!

What Judd offers that Kennedy doesn’t is leadership and experience. Although Carlton have not been successful in his time there, it could have been a lot worse without him. He has set standards and input his experience and knowledge into the minds of the younger players at the club. Although we aren’t seeing the benefit of his wisdom right now, his legacy will transcend his time at the club.

Friday night showed that Judd is still arguably Carlton’s strongest player, and still their leader, regardless of who is captain. He is still the midfielder who gets tagged, and although that’s an indictment on Carlton’s development in the Malthouse era, it also says a lot for how important Judd has been in preventing Carlton from being a laughing stock… Well, more of one anyway.

The run down
The trade is what it is. Chris Judd was a high-value asset at the time, and the price was high.

The younger players at Carlton will, in the end, be all the better for having played with and been tutored by Judd. You simply cannot assume Josh Kennedy would have had the same career at Carlton as he is having at West Coast.

Hindsight is not an intelligent barometer, but it always sparks a good debate! Who do you think got the better of the deal?

The Crowd Says:

2015-04-14T14:39:19+00:00

jax

Guest


it was a 3 horse race between the Blues, Tigers and Pies but the Pies were eliminated by Judd pretty quickly. I don't think he liked the Pies but that's only speculation. Kernahan says that Judd would have stayed at WC if the Blues didn't do the deal which might explain why WC didn't settle for less than Kennedy. I clearly remember Judd saying that he would do his best to ensure that WC got fair compensation for trading him. He loved WC and he has always said that he would have stayed at WC if they were based in Melbourne.

2015-04-14T10:59:53+00:00

KC

Guest


Biggest mistake was judd choosing Carlton, what a flop that was. I might be wrong, but wasn't he tossing up a few clubs, and Collingwood was close to getting his signature? He would of landed a flag in 2010, and perhaps provided a bit more composure and drive at the end of 2011 season and possibly won a 2nd in a row.

2015-04-14T08:30:16+00:00

jax

Guest


Buddy does kick bags. He'd kick a lot more if he kicked straight in the past. I was talking to a Freo supporter the other day that rates Kennedy over Buddy. I wouldn't go that far but it was interesting to see how high some rate Kennedy.

2015-04-14T08:26:27+00:00

Dalgety Carrington

Roar Guru


Franklin

2015-04-14T06:59:37+00:00

sheek

Roar Guru


Let's not forget Ramos, That Judd carried Carlton almost single-handedly in his first 3-4 years at the club. But one man alone cannot win a premiership, no matter how good he is. He still requires outstanding lieutenants to assist him.

2015-04-14T06:58:27+00:00

jax

Guest


WC are already the winners in my eyes and it will become clearer to others after Kennedy and Masten retire sometime in the next 4-7 years.

2015-04-14T06:56:38+00:00

jax

Guest


Well said Perry.

2015-04-14T06:48:58+00:00

jax

Guest


He's averaged approx 60 goals year for the last 4 or so years Alex so of course he kicks goals against top 8 sides, is that the best you can do? Name me another KPF that has kicked bags of 10 against anyone in th last few years. Watch him play some time and you will see his value pretty quickly, he's as good as any key forward in the game.

2015-04-14T06:45:36+00:00

jax

Guest


You know what's going on Luke

2015-04-14T06:44:28+00:00

jax

Guest


WC were smart enough to pick Kennedy and refuse to settle for less, unlike the Lions and I'm pretty sure that WC will be playing finals before the Blues or Lions. This is a direct quote from Sticks Kernahan followed by the link to my source. “Judd was either going to stay [at West Coast] – he didn’t want to go to Richmond – so we had to make a call and the only bloke they were interested in the whole time was Kennedy. “We offered to put up the whole team, just about. And Josh Kennedy, you can’t let centre-half-forwards go.” http://www.afl.com.au/news/2014-04-30/sticks-big-regret

2015-04-14T06:41:05+00:00

jax

Guest


WC never wanted Fev slane. This is a direct quote from Sticks Kernahan followed by the link to my source. “Judd was either going to stay [at West Coast] – he didn’t want to go to Richmond – so we had to make a call and the only bloke they were interested in the whole time was Kennedy. “We offered to put up the whole team, just about. And Josh Kennedy, you can’t let centre-half-forwards go.” http://www.afl.com.au/news/2014-04-30/sticks-big-regret Stop telling porkies please Don't let the truth get in the way of a good story, is that the way you approach your posts?

2015-04-14T06:39:23+00:00

jax

Guest


That's simply not true johno, you are either blatantly lying or listening to the wrong people. This is a direct quote from Sticks Kernahan followed by the link to my source. "Judd was either going to stay [at West Coast] – he didn't want to go to Richmond – so we had to make a call and the only bloke they were interested in the whole time was Kennedy. "We offered to put up the whole team, just about. And Josh Kennedy, you can't let centre-half-forwards go." http://www.afl.com.au/news/2014-04-30/sticks-big-regret WC didn't blink, they got their man, it was a case of getting the best possible outcome of a bad situation and Kennedy has only just hit his prime.

2015-04-14T06:16:23+00:00

jax

Guest


Carlton didn't make a mistake and neither did West Coast. Both teams won from the trade but it's very clear to me that WC will be deemed the winner of this trade when Kennedy and Masten eventually retire. WC got a 1st round pick as well and they used it on Masten who came 3rd in WC's B&F last year and he has started 2015 in very good form. Carltons list is not in great shape while WC has a very good young list that should see them playing regular finals starting in the next year or two while Carlton embark on yet another rebuild. You said that Kennedy doesn't offer leadership or experience but Judd does. That was true when Kennedy was a 20yo. He's been in the WC leadership group for years and he is now a vice-captain so I'd say that Josh offers quite a lot in those areas these days and as a 27yo KPP he has only just reached his prime. Hopefully he has another 4-5 years left with Masten even more so when all is said and done WC will be the clear winner imo but on the flip side that doesn't mean that Carlton lost because it's clear that they got a lot out of Judd also.

2015-04-14T03:47:15+00:00

Perry Bridge

Guest


It always reminded of the age old conundrum faced in particular by draft managers. Best player available or best tall/key position. Or in simpler terms - would you draft Wayne Carey or Chris Judd? Personally I lean towards quality talls. Was it fair to label JK that back then? He had potential. Perhaps the main thing to ponder though is how would the forward line as a whole at Carlton function were it based around Kennedy and Waite (assuming he was retained and firing as a '2nd fwd' in partnership with Kennedy), and how would Betts and Garlett (assuming both retained) go crumbing this perhaps more functional forward structure?? Would the midfield be functional enough (without Judd) to service this forward structure? In isolation - it was Kennedy and picks 3 and 20 for Judd and pick 46. For the Eagles, pick 3 Chris Masten is coming good, now aged 25. Tony Notte at pick 20 managed 2 games and was delisted. For Carlton they got Dennis Armfield with pick 46. Ironically in 2011 this deal was proclaimed as one of the best win-win deals down. Alas for Carlton, the 'win' premise was of some level of success subsequent to that. On trade day some thought West Coast to be the loser. Perhaps they were. But Judd was intending on going anyway. 4 years on it was seen as 'win-win', and now, as Judd grinds out his last season(s) while Kennedy snags a bag of 10 and Masten is finding his way - perhaps right now West Coast are the winners.

2015-04-14T03:43:04+00:00

The Original Buzz

Guest


A quote from the bard springs to mind here - "Truer words were never spoke."

2015-04-14T03:30:43+00:00

Alex L

Roar Rookie


Has Kennedy ever really gotten on top against a good side? We've all seen he can kick 10 against weak defences when he's getting good service from the middle, but I don't think I can recall him kicking more than 2 against a top 8 side.

2015-04-14T03:17:12+00:00

TW

Guest


This will be about the 100th article written on this exchange. Time to move on folks.

2015-04-14T01:35:44+00:00

Radelaide

Guest


Definitely the Eagles got the best of Judd, when you are so quick and explosive father time will catch up on you quicker than others. Even though he won a Brownlow at Carlton I think that was more to do with being the standout player who got all the votes where at the Eagles he had to fight with other champion players. Carlton needed a big name at the time but in hindsight they gave up too much but then who can see the future...And if you can, can you let me know the X lotto numbers. Cheers.

2015-04-14T01:27:13+00:00

johno

Guest


Fev went to Brisbane at the end of 2009. In 2006 and 2007 he had returns of 84 and 59 goals and was at this peak. All West Coast had up ront was Lynch - they were dead set keen on him. He became a liability due to his drinking in 2009, a year after he booted 99 goals in a season. I doubt that anyone could have failed West Coasts character test around 2007.

2015-04-14T00:44:45+00:00

Luke

Guest


You seriously believed that rumour? I was disgusted how unbelievably stupid Brisbane was to pick him up when I heard about it and I don't even particularly like Brisbane. I wouldn't have traded my dogs breakfast for Fevola and at a time when West Coast were under notice for player behaviour it would have been madness to go after a loose cannon like Fev. I don't believe Fev was ever on their radar at WCE. He failed the character test.

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