It’s an intriguing question as I’ve seen many magnificent rugby league halfbacks over the last 65 years, starting with Keith Holman in the early 1950s.
‘Yappy’ was a non-stop talker to his Western Suburbs, NSW, and Kangaroo teammates between 1948 and 1961. He played 203 games for Wests, 25 for NSW, and 35 for Australia and was a very chunky footballer who was as strong in attack as he was in defence.
Holman was named a life member of Wests while he was still playing, made a life member of the NSWRL, named in Wests Team of the Century, and was one of six inducted into the inaugural Wests Hall of Fame.
Barry Muir was much the same, with 26 games for Queensland, and 25 Tests, making his international debut alongside Reg Gasnier, Johnny Raper, and Noel Kelly against the Kiwis in 1959.
Billy Smith was an integral part of the champion St George side during the latter part of the club’s record 11 consecutive premierships. He played 234 games for the Dragons from 1961 to 1977, 17 games for NSW, and 26 Tests, and named by Rugby League Week as the halfback in the best Australian team from 1970 and 1985.
There’s only one Tommy Raudonikis, who captained NSW in the inaugural State of Origin in 1980. He was tough as teak. Raudonikis played 202 games for Wests from 1969 to 1979 to become an original member of Wests Hall of Fame, and played 24 games for NSW and 20 Tests.
Raudonikis was voted by Men of League Foundation as one of the 12 toughest players over the last 50 years.
Steve Mortimer captained NSW to its first Origin series success in 1985 with his typical pride and passion that were keys to his success in 272 games for Canterbury-Bankstown, nine games for NSW, and nine Tests. His halves combination with Terry Lamb was one of the most enduring in the the premiership.
Peter Sterling was the general in Parramatta’s three premierships in 1981, 1982, and 1983 during his 227 games for the Eels from 1978 to 1992. He was a pivotal member of the 1982 Kangaroo Invincibles and 1985 Kangaroo Unbeatables, both unbeaten in tours to Great Britain and France during his 18 Tests.
Sterling was inducted into the ARL’s Hall of Fame in 2006.
Allan Langer played 240 games for the Broncos between 1988 and 1999, 34 for Queensland, and 24 for the Kangaroos, and with every game he was the general, just as devastating in attack as he was in defence. Langer was named in Queensland’s Team of the Century, and inducted into Sport Australia’s Hall of Fame in 2008.
Ricky Stuart made the right decision to switch to rugby league after the Wallaby tour to Argentina in 1987 to lead the Raiders to premierships in 1989, 1990, and 1994, as well as the losing grand finalist in 1991.
He played 203 games for the Raiders, and 40 for the Bulldogs, made 14 appearances for NSW, and nine for Australia, and won his Dally M in 1993.
Andrew Johns played 249 games for Newcastle from 1993 to 2007, 23 for NSW, and 24 for Australia. He was a good footballer, but a better goal-kicker, the code’s record points-scorer with 2176. But I still spit chips that he was named the eighth Immortal when Ken Irvine, plus Ron Coote, Mal Meninga, Sterling and Langer have been ignored.
And that brings us to Johnathan Thurston, who yet again excelled on Sunday night. He turned a 12-4 half-time deficit to Souths into a 30-12 victory, crossing for two tries, setting up a third, and landing five from six for 18 points.
The formula is simple, Thurston fires, the Cowboys fire. That formula has been successful for three weeks this season, following three losses. Thurston was the oldest footballer on the paddock last night, he turns 32 on Anzac Day, but at ANZ Stadium he was the undisputed man of the match,
Masterful.
He holds the Origin points record at 174, he’s played a record 30 consecutive Origin games with Darren Lockyer’s all-time Origin record of 36 in his sights. So to compare Thurston to the best I’ve seen, there’s Sterling, Langer and Andrew Johns to contend with.
Thurston has won thee Dally Ms in 2005, 2007 and 2014, plus two Golden Boots in 2011 and 2013. Johns has won three Dally Ms in 1998, 1999 and 2002, and two Golden Boots in 1999 and 2001.
Sterling’s won two Dally Ms in 1986 and 1987, plus sharing a Golden Boot with Hugh McGahan in 1987, while Langer won his Dally M in 1996.
How do I rate them in order?
Johnathan Thurston, Peter Sterling, Andrew Johns, Allan Langer.
Matt
Guest
If winning a premiership is a is so important to be an Immortal, then why didn't Newcastle win a premiership in 2003 or 2004 and when Johns was apparently at his peak? In 2005 he was in a wooden spoon team (anything other than performance is irrelevant, given the sediment of AJ lovers, so I'm just being consistent). Rugby League is a team sport. You shouldn't place the performance of a team to measure an individual.
Matt
Guest
Its amazing how well the Cowboys play when Thurston plays well, the problem is he doesnt turn up every week. He is absolutely brilliant beyond belief when hes on fire but half of the time he just doesn't seem to turn up. If he was able to be more consistant the Cowboys could have one a couple of Premierships by now. Its Andrew Johns for me, by a fair margin.
Carlos
Guest
No
Dav
Guest
Couldn't agree with you more, Thurston is the better, though they are both great players. Johns was dropped from State of Origin in the middle of his career for poor form, Kimmorley at Half Back and Toovey at Hooker, Johns didn't even get a bench spot in the first game and through injury to Terry Hill he got a bench spot in game 2 and 3. There were alot of times when Johns in his early career was heavily questioned on his defence and wasn't till the end of his career that he developed a better tackle with extra weight. Thurstons tackling has been questioned at times, but never to the like of Lockyer, Langer and Johns. It is in his general technique he is more natural where Lockyer would get lazy, Langer was just too small and had to be creative with his legs and Johns suffered from size too and lacked technique, though this changed with training and he had to put on a bit of weight. From what I remember I believe Sterlo was like thurston who had great tackling technique. We know how NSW players "have to" target Thurston continuously (Beau Scott + Josh Reynolds) purely in the team to get to Thurston & it is a testament to how great Thurston is, last year they had to disrupt the whole game to stop Thurston. Dosen't matter how good they are, they have all fallen for Thurston's dummy. For pace, well Thurston 1st then Sterlo followed by Johns and Langer. I believe Johns borrowed alot of his creative kicking game off Langer, Langer pre dated kicks reverse to the direction you were running. Alot of these skills were passed down in League, players have been doing them for a long time, very rarely does a player invent something new in the game as it has all been done before, it is how they master these skills and implement them in the game.
Mantis
Roar Guru
He hasnt had to, hes had Locky, Inglis, Slater and Smith there with him. Tough to stand out so blatantly in a team filled with all those superstars.
Mantis
Roar Guru
Cant agree with you on that. Benji is a poor defender. JT is solid.
Mantis
Roar Guru
Does winning 3 premierships mean a player is better than one who has one or two premierships? Also, look at the team Locky had around him when he won those premierships - it was basically a representative team anyway. I dont think winning the biggest prize on offer is necessarily the be all and end all. Rugby League is a team sport, so when talking about individual honours, individual acclaim should have a higher importance - awards such as the Dally M, Golden boot, total number of MOM etc... Johns and JT are tied on golden boots and Dally Ms at the moment - would be interesting to know how they fared in MOMs.
Mantis
Roar Guru
Thats one thing JT has over anyone else - he is far and away the most competitive player ive ever seen. You summed it up perfectly; making repeat tackles, always first in kick chase, runs in support on every break... hes a freak
Mantis
Roar Guru
Have you seen any of JTs games in the last 3 weeks? He has literally changed the outcome of all of them. And you think he cant deal with pressure?? Open your eyes, those two kicks he got against Melbourne at the death were as clutch as they come. And thats just his last 3 games.... Hes been doing it at the Cowboys for 10 years.
Dav
Guest
For those that are not aware, a quick rundown of Thurstons SOO career 2005 Thurston plays all 3 games as Half Back NSW win the series 2-1 2006 Thurston plays all 3 games as Half Back QLD win 2007 Thurston plays all 3 games as Half Back QLD win 2008 Lockyer knee injury game 1 Karmichael Hunt goes to 5/8 QLD loose, games 2 & 3 Thurston goes to 5/8 and prince moves into Half Back QLD win the next 2 games & the series 2009 Thurston plays all 3 games as Half Back QLD win 2010 Thurston plays all 3 games as Half Back QLD win 3 zip 2011 Thurston plays all 3 games as Half Back QLD win Lockyer retires 2012 Thurston plays all 3 games as 5/8 Cronk moves into Half Back QLD win 2013 Thurston plays all 3 games as 5/8 QLD win 2014 Thurston plays all 3 games as 5/8 under refereeing controversy which saw the referee Shayne Hayne dropped for the final game NSW win. Thurston has most consecutive games of any player in the history of state of origin Thurston holds the most points in origin record 174 points
Dav
Guest
the NSW voice in media mainly driven by Rugby League Week magazine promoted Johns, he was NSW most consistent performer in NSW's second SOO era and they were looking for a NSWelshman to combat the likes of Lewis, Langer & Lockyer or needed an immortal in the modern era. The immortal titles are not sanctioned by the NRL it is only a title given by the Rugby League Week Magazine. I think there are plans or this may have already happened that the NRL are going to take over the Immortal title. The Immortal title judging panel is stacked with the current and past editors of this magazine based in NSW. the Magazine titled Johns as the greatest player in the last 30 years.
Dav
Guest
Just a quick run down for those that don't know Johns SOO career. Johns first stint at SOO Half Back in 1995 NSW lost the series in a whitewash and Johns was dropped from Half Back in favour of Toovey for the last game, there was a lot of questions of his defence in those days. 1995 was super league wars and the ARL QLD side were called the "Neville Nobodies" because players from Brisbane could not be picked, it is the series when Billy Moore yelled out QLDer! as he runs onto the field in game 2. The thing is QLD went against the odds to win 3 zip. During the year was 3 internationals against NZ Johns was no picked, at the end of the year was a world cup John first international game blooded against Sth Africa at HB next internationals against Tonga & NZ Toovey played HB and Johns played Hooker from the bench. and this went on to see him play Hooker for NSW 96&97 SOO 1997 saw knights win their first grandfinal ARL, superleague the split comp which Brisbane won. (Paul Green was halfback playing for Cronulla in that final) 1998 (QLD won) & 99 (NSW won) Johns played Half Back for NSW 2000 with a drop in form and the rise of Brett Kimmorley Johns was not picked in game 1 & Toovey moved from Half Back & took the hooking roll, through injuries in games 2 & 3 Johns got back on the NSW team on the bench as an impact player. NSW won 3 zip. 2000 also saw Johns dropped from the Aus side 2001 Johns was dropped from SOO Brett Kimmorley HB & Toovey Hooker, though with an improved year 2001 the Knights win their second premiership. though lose the club challenge to Bradford Bulls. 2002 & 2003 Johns back at Half Back for NSW 2002 series a draw QLD retained the cup and 2003 series NSW win 2004 Johns was plagued with injuries and he missed SOO NSW won the series also 2004 much controversy when Rugby Union Waratahs flashed alot of money for his services with out the consent of the ARU (Australian Rugby Union) the ARU knew of his continued drug taking and did not condone the deal. This was all hidden from the media though and revealed later after the cat was out of the bag. the NRL promised Johns a Commentary position deal after his career ended if he stayed in NRL. The swap to Union did not happen. 2005 Johns returned from England and played in the last 2 games to win the series (3rd series in a row for NSW) Johns retires from representative football. Enter a young Johnathon Thurston you know the SOO story from 2006+. 2007 early he was found with a bulging disc in his neck and retired. Later that year he was arrested in England for fare evasion to which he was found in the possession of ecstasy, the media found out, he denied ownership but with pressure from people knowing he relieved that he had taken it throughout his playing career on and off the field.
The Barry
Roar Guru
We'll never know but you can't say there is no way. Manly had been better than the Broncos in previous seasons and the Knights beat them.
The Barry
Roar Guru
He's a great player...
ehx
Guest
They also dominate the Australian team... so i'd say they have a fair bit of competition for a rep jersey. They are just better than their NSW counterparts. Evidenced by the fact they won 8 straight series. Your logic is very flawed.
Dav
Guest
Kimmorly kept Johns to the bench for a whole series ... explain that one?
Dav
Guest
lol @ Johns offered more versatility off the bench, not that Kimmorley offered more versatility at HB? The reason that Thurston was moved to 5/8 was that Lockyer retired, game 1 2008 QLD tried Karmichael Hunt at 5/8 as to indicate the poor options they had to fill that position, though we had Scott Prince and Cronk who couldn't never get a start due to Thurston, it was found that Thurston was the only one with the ability to take that position because of these outstanding HalfBacks we had in the wings to get onto the field, (I know, talk about being spoilt), normally you get Locks and Centres moving to 5/8 not HalfBacks for the size & defence required, actually Thurston has been a better defensive 5/8 than Lockyer, And it has been Thurstons position ever since for QLD and Aus ... as the QLD halves followed through ... WOW! 8 origins in a row 9 series never missed a game 176 all time points leader all time most consecutive games. (the only way to stop him is for the whole team to rush up in a line in defence as the Rabbits tried on Monday, though because they had to stay back the ten it was obvious they ran out of puff and the Cows capitalised, this tactic only works if you don't have to go back 10 in defence as proven in SOO last year games 1 & 2, will we see a repeat this year, it is the only way you can stop him) For the Cows now that they have a larger excellent ball player in Morgan Thurston has moved back to his better suited position for the team as HB, Morgan is a more classic 5/8.
Sleiman Azizi
Roar Guru
ouch!
Niall
Roar Pro
Aside from being different, Cronk probably hasn't been given his due because he is with Slater and Smith in Melbourne. Aside from the fact all three are special and take the shine of each other to some degree, with Melbourne not being league-heartland they are only really afforded the hype at representative time. Just a thought but Imagine if Billy Slater was at a Sydney club or the Broncos during those freakish prime years of his? How big would the hype have been? Johns along with Fittler and Lockyer were built up by Nine almost every single week. Same goes for SBW, Hayne and Sam Burgess more recently. For the record I am okay with these great players being pumped up. My media argument is probably more relevant to fringe rep selections than the superstars. The way some average/good players are built up at the expense of similar or better players is ludicrous.
Jackson Henry
Roar Guru
Yeah, you're exactly right. I'm amazed it doesn't get brought up more often in these debates..I think Johns is streets ahead of JT but you cant deny that Johns also has support from some pretty powerful media figures who've pumped up his tyres at every opportunity. Never underestimate the impact Wally Lewis had on RL's narrative...NSW invented the game and runs the game...but the "King" was from Qld? NSW needed an equivalent "for the good of the game". Just like this narrative going around at the moment between JT and Johns being the best is also "good for the game". Now, Johns was a monster, as I've said numerous times above...but this push for Joey had some other aspects to it that seemed to get missed when these types of debates arise. The media thing definitely applies to Cronk by the way. I was amazed he got the Dally M that year...which us essentially the logies of Rugby league. Cooper just doesn't talk the same way, look the same way and act the same way as so many of his peers. Apart from having to have done more with less just to be UN the same conversation as someone like JT, I like him because he is original and himself. So very refreshing in a world of poor public speaking and sleeve tattoos.