Skelton and Latu appeals dismisssed, will serve Super Rugby bans

Context is everything in considering what is more likely to have occurred than not. Let’s consider what I recall appeared (to me) from the video replay at the time of the incident. Parra was temporarily motionless on his back minding his own business and no doubt would soon have got to his feet but for being blindsided by the brutal blow from McCaw. For what seemed to be no reasonable connection to playing the ball (which Parra did not have), McCaw dived over Parra and a dragging knee struck Parra’s face with more precision and damage than the hardest Ali jab (whose opponents at least had the benefit of blows softened by gloves and the opportunity to cover up, duck, dive or retreat as much as they could). To add some more intriguing context, McCaw’s action was identical to that applied a season or so before the 2011 Rugby World Cup to McCaw’s own cranium by Quade Cooper, not at all calculated (or likely) to injure but in a controlled and light fashion for theatrical annoyance value as part of ongoing niggling conducted by the contentious couple for a few games. For that comparatively innocuous assault, Cooper was mindlessly booed by Kiwi fans whenever he played across the ditch. The Kiwis, however, have to concede (because it’s factual) that it was for decades the All Blacks who mostly used unacceptably brutal intimidation as a weapon for winning even when rugby union was an amateur game. Just a few examples: Colin Meads’ blow that broke Welshman Jeff Young’s jaw, also his heroic knockout of 5’ 6” British Lion David Watkins; Mark Shaw’s sucker punch that broke the jaw of star Wallabies lock Steve Williams (ABs went on to win), also in a different test match his peppering of combination punches on Roger Gould near the Wallabies goal line (result - Gould penalised for moderate and understandable retaliation, ABs went on to win). The Kiwi’s also have to concede that poor refereeing in the 2011 RWC overlooked the blatant foul play by which two Frenchmen were impeded from tackling Tony Woodcock as he scuttled for his trick try through a line out gap. Not really the stuff of breadth and quality rugby. Surely the International Rugby Board knows that if it wishes to promote best and fairest conduct at all levels of the game (players and referees) then it is the showcase RWC that should set the example for everyone else.

Do you seriously think that knee on Parra was intentional?

The crucial point is that anyone who decides anything affecting rights and liabilities must apply the policy underlying the rules or laws they administer in a principled way, not their subjective views. They must consider every side of every important question, not go automatically to prejudice, prejudgment or rigidity. Anyone of average intelligence who follows these simple ethical rules can be a judicial officer or judge. In contrast with the judicial, disciplinary or appellate officers, the match officials in the Skelton-Latu case did that job in a perfectly confident, logical and transparent manner under the pressure of scrutiny by a live television audience. It is unfortunate that rugby judicial tribunals seem to be dominated by barristers. There are basic structural flaws in the adversarial common law trial, which derives from the ancient English trial by battle. The judge is supposed to act as a neutral referee of cases presented by expensive, attack dog, obfuscatory, hyperbolic lawyers battling for each party whose marketability is enhanced by winning cases. It differs from the European inquisitorial trial where the bad habits of the adversarial trial are avoided by recruiting judges directly from law school and the mode of decisionmaking emphasises independent inquiry or truth-seeking by the judicial branch of the State.

Everyone seems to forget that Kiwi teams have some pretty hard men in their midst as well I haven't seen a kiwi union team get bullied in over a decade and I cant see it happening any time soon

exactly nzers have long memories , and skelton is as bright as a garden hose, Hell end up getting his beanz before the tahs get dumped out of the comp early all loose units get theres eventually

The role of the Judicial Officer or Disciplinary Committee is to hear the evidence put to them and make a judgment. The role of the Appeal Committee is to hear the appellant’s case. It's not the role of any of the above to impose policy decisions or send messages and I know you know that. They are independently appointed and act independently.

Looks like a policy decision rather than one based on the facts and justice. It's one thing to send a message, another to impose penalties that in the circumstances are unfair. General policies can themselves be unlawful if applied with undue rigidity. Creates a risk of judicial review. The Committee's ruling is too thin to know how it analysed all the facts and arguments. It could have got its safety message across to these two youngsters by reversing the Tribunal or imposing lesser penalties but with a strong statement that they and all players need to avoid going too close too or over the tolerable line of what Manchester United coach Louis van Gaal calls "aggressivity" (swell new word). Rugby officialdom should also concentrate more attention on older players who have developed subtle techniques to avoid detection of foul play. Better scrutiny of video replays would help. Bakkies Botha got away with too many potentially homicidal shoulder charges such as took out Adam Jones in the 2nd test against the 2009 British Lions. This was especially alarming and dangerous when players' heads and necks were vulnerable while they were trapped in rucks or mauls. No one seemed to notice that a prone Morgan Parra's cheekbone hit Richie McCaw's knee with such violence that France's star playmaker and goal kicker had to leave the field in the 2011 Rugby World Cup final. Luckily, Richie's knee suffered no damage. In a super rugby match some 5 or so years ago, Gurthro Steenkamp entertained the crowd with a fast high stepping dance around a maul at the end of which a knee made contact with the head of Stephen Moore, who suffered a serious neck injury. New Zealand's Jerry Collins was good at making high-speed frontal crash tackles beginning below the victim's shoulders but virtually imperceptibly shifting sufficiently high for a potential knockout - such as a game-ending charge on Wales's Colin Charvis.

It was thuggish. Latu aggressively drove the player to the ground and then seconds later threw a punch. Skelton lifted in the tackle and then proceeded to posture up over the prone player with his chest puffed out. Thuggish is the perfect term for that incident.

I respectfully disagree, he's always complimentary of opposition respectful in press conferences I have never heard him say anything remotely smug.

I don't think chukar has a chip on his shoulder. Are you referring to something in particular?

Skelton until last weekend was known as a clean player. One game does not turn you into thug. The mccaw shoulder I thought was ordinary the other 2 incidents were fair to me but aggressive hard rugby. I agree that if Latu wasn't involved he wouldn't have gone through the 90. Worth appealing in my book particularly with jpot and no Douglas around.

It was for severity I think

From a blind Tahs supporters perspective of course. Dont bother defending the indefensible.. The tahs have now learnt that....your turn !

Actually the rule is you can't blindside shoulder charge players who don't have the ball and are simply holding their ground.

As it was McCaw that got barrelled, fair enough. Opposition players arent allowed to touch him.

I'm not sure the Latu appeal was only on the grounds of the length of the suspension. The article states "Latu’s ground of appeal was that the four-week sanction imposed was not fair in all the circumstances."

Mike, what point was made? The appellants "failed to prove that the sanctions were manifestly excessive or wrong in principle."

Whitelock's changed his name to 'Corruption'?

I had one of those fridges, but I sold it to some actor...Murray I think his name was...always wondered what ever happened to it. Got sick of that Zuul eating my ice cream all the time...

How does he change his ways? For one cut down the number of people he chooses to attack from behind where they haven't got the ball for one. McCaw, the tackle and the shoulder charge on the ground were all off the ball hits. Now regardless of whether they are justifiable of not, a regular dose of that every match is just not rugby, and if he keeps doing it, he'll get pinged. Nothing wrong with being aggressive, but taken at face value they weren't very smart moves.