I compared the Wallaby train-on squad to a squad that would be picked if you used the Roar form as the selection guide.
First, the Wallaby train on squad is based on players from teams that did not make the finals. Also it seems that two entire scrums were chosen with the exception of two blindside flankers.
A similar story in the backs, a complete backline was chosen except for a fullback.
When I state that a player is the form play it is in the context of players that did not make the finals.
Tighthead prop
Greg Holmes and Paul Alo-Emile were the form tight head props, exact match to the squad.
Loosehead prop
Slipper and Smith were the form loose head props, exact match to the squad.
Hooker
James Hanson and Saia Fainga’a were the form hookers, exact match to the squad.
Locks
Timani, Jones, Coleman and Simmons were the form locks. This is the first deviation. Timani was not in the squad despite being the form player at either lock or number six. The other three are in the squad. Horwill is not considered a form player he has a negligible score.
Blindside flanker
Timani, McMahon were the form blindside flankers. Timani is not in the squad. McMahon is in the squad. No other number six is in form the remainder have a negligible score.
Openside flanker
Gill and Hodgson were the form openside falnkers, exact match to the squad.
Number eight
Higginbotham and McCalman were the form eighth men, an exact match to the squad.
Scrum half
Genia and Stirzaker were the form scrumhalfs. Since only one was chosen it is an exact match to the squad, however Strizaker is in better form than both White and Phipps.
Flyhalf
Cooper is the form flyhalf which is an exact match to the squad.
Wing
Shipperley, O’Connor, Cummins were the form wingers. James O’Connor and Nick Cummins were in the squad. Since Shipperley gained most of his points when he played 13 this is not a significant omission.
12
Kerevi and Inman were the form 12s, since only one was chosen it is an exact match to the squad.
Centre
There were no form centres outside the team finalists.
Fullback
Haylett-Petty was the form fullback, since no fullbacks were picked for the squad you could say it was an exact match.
In conclusion, Timani and Stirzaker were clearly unlucky not to make the squad. Hunt was the only player chosen who was not a form player chosen in the squad, and if he was not selected the form player to replace him would be Inman so to that extent it could be said Inman was unlucky to not make the squad.
Jack Debrezceni on form should not have made the squad so that was a reasonable omission. Cooper, Bernard Foley, Matt Toomua and Christian Lealiifano all have scored higher than him.
On the whole Rebels were a little unlucky however it could not be said that the Reds were over represented with only Hunt being a questionable decision.
Timani if selected would push out Simmons in the squad, and if Stirzaker was selected Phipps would be pushed from the full squad.
Ken
Guest
Military history Birdy?? Get a grip. You have as much grip as a dog on lino. I mean the game was nearly up for youse poms, no risk. And if it hadn’t been for Australia, Musso and them japs would’ve strung every white kiddie up by the pills and gone chocka-block with all the nurses and bus conductresses. Oh look, let me outta here you poms are an ungrateful bunch.
PiratesRugby
Guest
Great stuff PeterK. Stirzaker very unlucky. A poor decision both short and long term. He's the best young scrum in Australia by miles. He's had the best year of all of the established scrum halves. He should have been selected. A coaching mistake.
Ken
Guest
Military history Birdy?? [Mods. Pls refrain from personal insult. Warning on first poster]
Markus
Guest
Hadn't heard about Ulugia, I thought they'd be set with Leafa Hanson and Siliva now. I assume Tom Sexton and Ben Whitaker are out the door now too?
Browny
Roar Rookie
Seems like they've stocked up hookers for next seaon... Leafa is still signed until the end of 2016 plus they've aquired Hansen, Siliva Siliva from the Brumbies and I'm hearing things about John Ulugia too.
kibuib
Guest
The Brumbies have a really good 9, he came off the bench for Michael Dowsett a couple of weeks ago (he played for U20s last year). Crisp pass, great service, good option taking in the short cameo. Dowsett will be pushed really hard next season, and i believe he will grow into a formidable 9. Stirzaker really should have been given some game time with the train on squad.
jeznez
Roar Guru
Sorry, of course they did. Will have to wait for the Bledisloe to have a look at that.
Brian USA
Guest
I would argue a few of your points HandsOff: Cooper- He looks pretty in form to me. In the few games he played, he was playing behind a beaten pack. Had one game that was sublime, but the rest were still pretty good. Even getting thrashed by the Tah's, had a brilliant try created from nothing. Simmons: I actually can't really argue about your comments on his general play. But in set piece, he may be the best lock in AUS. Gill: He has been in phenomenal form. He still isn't on the level of Pocock or Hooper, but really no one else is. For me, Gill is the third rated 7 is AUS, and likely wont go to the WC, but he is a player who shows promise and it cant hurt having him included in the squad. Sai'a: Agree that he is behind Hansen even at the Reds, but he has been around the Wallabies for a long time, and out of the Hookers from the 3 teams being selected, I see why he was chosen for the training squad. Of the 12 Reds selected, most won't make the full squad. I think probably only Slipper, Hansen, Holmes, Simmons, Genia, Cooper, JOC and Maybe (read: hopefully) Kerevi will be in at the end.
Morsie
Guest
That's what happens when your cellar is over stocked with 7's.
Birdy
Guest
Interesting, though, TF; the Baby Black pack was 2kg per man heavier on average than England.
Birdy
Guest
Oh dear, Ken. I see your knowledge of military history is as profound as your knowledge of rugby.
PeterK
Roar Guru
I agree re Enever and Arnold, thats why I gave him an 8 and Arnold 7.5 on the ratings that have just been published for that game. Skelton won't be playing Retallick, Chiefs lost.
Mike
Guest
Tomane has packed in a scrum for Brumbies.
jeznez
Roar Guru
I ought Enever was the pick of the Brumbies locks against the Stormers - thought he had better impact in the contact zones. Etzebeth the standout lock on the field, unfortunately playing a bit of a lone hand. There was one tackle that he was holding a Brumby plus two Brumby supports up to try and force a maul - the Ponies had to add a fourth forward to the breakdown to force it to deck and get the re-cycle. Brodie was similarly impressive against the Highlanders. Really looking forward to the battle between Skelton and Retallick on the weekend - Brodie obviously has a much higher workrate but will be looking to see if Skelton can win a few collisions with him.
PeterK
Roar Guru
I am not suggesting this team will or should be be picked, I picked the best starting team I could based on only Tahs / brumbies as per NOS and his hypothesis that those 2 teams could make up the entire starting xv
nickoldschool
Roar Guru
Haha nice one handles :) I have to say I initially didn't include kb but thought cheika may see things differently. For the record kb wouldn't be in my wallabies xv, only possibly on a 6-2 bench for his versatility (him or hoc) and even not sure. If tahs and brumbies make the final reckon not many guys from this pre list will make the rwc squad. Peter yep that's the kind of starting xv we could get.
Taylorman
Guest
Agree, weird that he left the moustached one from Berlin out of the equation...
JimmyB
Guest
Agreed Utah. Being that this is a rugby forum, it's not the place to discuss serious topics and judging by Ken's posts he's not capable of discussing anything serious or seriously.
Utah
Guest
That response by Ken is the weirdest, most off-topic response I've ever seen on this site. Is there a prize for that or something?
Marto
Guest
I dont get this problem people have with Rob Simmons, he`s a lieneout general /workrate lock..He is pillored every year..He is not an enforcer or big ball carrier or massive hitter..He needs a TIGHT HEAD lock to complement him ...Skelton is his name ..All we need is third hybrid lock on the bench .. HORWILL perhaps can lift his ball carrying game and be both ????