New Zealand Phoenix could be on A-League cards

I didn't know that

Considering the Nix often take games to other parts of New Zealand you would think they would have found a fanbase outside Wellington.

The legacy is a failed legacy. Nix are gone within weeks unless they can change the paradigm - Franks come up with his view which you've quite happily told us all its rubbish, so how do you suggest Nix get fixed?

Because Football is a Club and International game, provincial teams don't come into it. The clubs are meant to represent local communities and their identities are reflective of this. One of the most biggest reasons why both the "Football Kingz" and "Auckland Knights" both failed was because the whole island identity did not appeal to Aucklanders who weren't interested in sharing a single club with the rest of the country. The Phoenix was meant to be the right to this wrong and a local identity was the focus of the new project. The fact that Lowy is now willing to trash that legacy and turn the Phoenix into a travelling roadshow so that they fit his failing Cookie Cutter model is pathetic. If Welnix have any respect for their fans, they'll tell loony frank to jog on and leave the A-League for NZ football on their own terms if need be.

I think we are .... unless they can come up with something like $5m in external funding from TV/government etc then expect to hear the sound of "beep, beep, beep..." From Frank Lowy as the FFA back up on this one ;)

"That’s if you assume the name was the thing that caused it to fail last time, was it?" Not necessarily the name perse..but that would make it blatantly indicative of not learning from the past and being doomed to repeat..etc.. My point is I think it's safe to say after two incarnations that the NZ experiment has failed. For a multitude of factors. I personally think, having been very involved in business in NZ, that they won't buy into *because* it's Aussie and not their own.. NZ aren't interested in what Gosford or Newcastle are doing in the world of football and it's illogical expecting them to be. The nix (and NZF) need to embody their namesake, bite the bullet, go through the possible but necessary dark age of no professional league and then emerge from the ashes with a respectable domestic comp. Sound like any other countries you can think of? And was this necessary evil fruitful? "And by your definition of insanity, should the FFA stop persevering with NZ (“stop doing the same thing over and over again”) and just pull out of NZ at the end of the season?" Yes. "have you thought about changing your name?" Who me specifically? Lol. I think we're in agreement.. To quote the great Whitlam.. "Nothing will save the nix".

I reckon the idea calling them NZ Phoenix has merit. Not much of a change and does help build support. The NRL team used to the Auckland Warriors but changed to NZ Warriors for that very reason

No problem. I think the strategy of focussing on Wellington makes sense in a football aspect, but commercially it's not proven successful. A broader appeal nationally or at least regionally is needed presumably, I don't like "regional" soccer teams but it's not the name that's the issue it's the broader appeal which means much more than simply changing the name I assume; the name just happens to be in the firing line imo - maybe they just drop Wellington altogether and call themselves Phoenix FC, that's better than a clunky national title.

That's if you assume the name was the thing that caused it to fail last time, was it? And by your definition of insanity, should the FFA stop persevering with NZ ("stop doing the same thing over and over again") and just pull out of NZ at the end of the season? The connection seems clear - get more TV revenue, how? Appeal to a wider TV audience than just Wellington, How? have you thought about changing your name? Nix can pull average crowds of 15,000 from now on but it don't be enough to save them; the dots are joined - it's the commercial revenues coming into the FFA that don't add up. Not the friggin name, memberships or low crowds!

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

Fair enough, Waz. The TV deal and related revenue streams does appear to be a major sticking point.

A really good Q&A with the Nix chairman here: http://m.foxsports.com.au/football/a-league/wellington-phoenix-a-league-licence-simon-hill-grills-club-chief-on-the-future-of-phoenix/story-e6frf4gl-1227604122447

Well I really wanted lesters logic behind the rant ;) .... but we're at the point of Nix being eliminated and pretty soon if things don't change - it would seem to me that the biggest thing that needs to change is the domestic TV deal; the name changing won't imo make all that much difference but if, and I say if, a wider TV appeal can be generated it will lead to more cash - a name change may not be required but I suspect that's part of franks thinking.

Part of the failure of the NZ Knights was that it tried to capture all of New Zealand rather than focus on Auckland. A large part of the rationale for Wellington and their colours was about avoiding this in order to better engage the local footballing population. It's akin to Sydney's attempt to engage the West of the city, though with greater ramifications.

Why?

It's dumb suggestions like this that make me convinced that Lowy is no longer fit to be in charge of the FFA anymore. What an utterly horrendous suggestion.

The NRL clubs pleaded for more money from their commisioner yesterday (article in The Australian) amid claims they will stand to lose over $40m between them next season with only Souths and Broncos profitable; sound familiar? Many NRL clubs can then draw on revenues from Leagues clubs to partially reduce the losses but still, the current situation with NRL and HAL clubs (and AFL reportedly have 10 losing money) highlights the reality of professional sport in this country. Nix and the HAL have been sleepwalking over continued participation of a NZ team in the comp, if the only additional revenue they bring in is the Sky TV money ($100k) then logically it is unsustainable - but if out of this exercise a "zero" can be added to the back of the TV contract and a similar cash amount injected by NZF/Government plus Nix fans wake up and support then all this may be worth the effort; whether the FFA can get an AFC extension beyond 2020 is questionable but the new FIFA will be up and running by then and oceana's continued existence may even be questioned so the problem may simply go away if a new "AFC East" is created. Perhaps the best thing to come out of this situation, and those at Jets and Roar as I think the two are related, is a focus by the FFA on the sustainability of the HAL as a competition and prioritising that over expansion - how they achieve that is unknown mind you, both NRL and AFL have had significantly higher TV deals for some time now and both still operate with tens of millions of dollars in losses so the answer presumably isn't as simple as just negotiating a bigger TV deal?

New Zealand Knights..?