Is English rugby back on track after a weekend of European success?

English rugby is doing fine but Australian domestic rugby is dead , mate rugby in Australia peaked in the 90s. England rugby is going from strength to strength

Rubbish article imo. Starts off by recounting ancient history everyone knows & then tries to link recent success of a few English club sides to the England national team - there isn't any. Sports journo's with half a brain will wait til AFTER the 2016 5 Nations tournament before they make any comment on England's form.

IMHO the European club game is no indicator of top level health as the level is well below the required international level in the modern game. How many npc/currie cup journey men have gone to Europe and all of a sudden they're a leader in their position? I'm thinking the likes of jimmy gopperth here. He hardly set the super 14 alight but was the leading premiership point scorer. The sooner european rugby accepts that the club level is below super 15 in term of skill fitness and quality of play the sooner NH rugby will catch up.

The success of English clubs over the weekend proves England do have the talent. Its biggest problem is the consistency and being able to get or even let these players express themselves on the international stage. Whether it has to do with the coaching management or the development stages as they were kids its not letting English rugby grow. England are a team who could be described as 'Sleeping Giants' as they have so many talent and all the resources you need but they have not had the right coach. Lancaster took them forward and the progression had stopped. We have seen some excellent attack from England under Lancaster. Some great tries and individual performances from some players. Mike Brown against Wallabies, JJ in the 6N as Mike Brown in the 6N 2014, Anthony Watson with some electric feet, Jack Nowell with some blistering runs and some tries. But these are all just mini highlights for the You Tube reels what we need to see are these things happening in every game and I believe it could happen with the player they have. Savea is able to use his talents and show them throughout the course of the 80 and if its not Savea, its Milner Skudder if its not Skudder its Ben Smith or its Dan Carter or its Nonu, but it all gels together all the individual talent is shown in one game not just one player, and most of ABs tries are team tries where all individual talents are shown and then finished off. We have seen it so many times, the Wallabies do it, Ireland can do it but I feel England can match the ABs with it - which leads to why the fans are confident or others like to call it 'arrogant' or 'cocky' Though it is stupid to be that confident seeing as England have not yet proved it. The fans are waiting for it to come and they know the potential is there just imagine Watson side stepping his way through who offloads to JJ who dazzles through and runs down the field and is able to offload to George Ford who has vision to put a chip across the field to the waiting Jack Nowell who finishes the exciting attack! Though this is only imagination, but it is capable of this generation of England players as shown at club level - perfect example of the video above of Alex Goode chipping and the offload to score a brilliant try. RFU and England fans are hoping Eddie Jones is able to awaken these 'Sleeping Giants' and unleash them on the international stage and who better to kick it off against then the die-hard Scottish!

guys It was just over a decade ago that the ABs had an empty cabinet shelf - no RWC trophy, no bled cup, no 3N trophy and basically, nothing but dust gathering on the empty shelves.....in that time, the ABs not only reinvented themselves but also found how to win the ugly, close matches on top of the try-fest matches, they were winning. Although, from that day when the process of re-invention commenced, it still took the team 7 seasons before finally, ascending rugby's Mt Everest. Now, they have done what no other NZ side has achieved let alone, what no other global side, has achieved. So, I do hope that this current legacy will continue and continue successfully, like it has these past 8 seasons but, it isn't a shame to think that there are opposition sides out there who are hell bent, on making sure that this legacy, does not continue with its winning form. And, those same sides will be hoping that the ABs recent changing-of-the-guard, may just be the impetus to help them, with those hell-bent ambitions.

Burrell did have a poor 2015. But was he really worse than a guy with no international experience to speak whose club coach would not even pick him in the position for which Lancaster selected him? I don't like players bleating about non-selection but frankly any England qualified centre over-looked in favour of that carpetbagging pseudo-Aussie Burgess had every right to feel aggrieved. Lancaster's handling of that situation, his blind faith in Chris Robshaw and his mistreatment of the Fly-Half position demonstrated a guy way out of his depth both as a coach and as a man manager. Sadly, I'm by no means convinced that Jones is an improvement.

Well, as a coach in France, Eddie is probably going to do a better job than the previous one. I wished he could have signed with the French National team !! We would have needed him much more than Guy Noves ! http://www.comeonsport.com/RUGBY,68.html

if as you say (which I don't agree with) the ABs lose rather than win they the legacy of the silver fern and/or black jersey could be tarnished - if that was the case it would have happened a long time ago....and so in my opinion it will never happen...I'd rather think the BRAND is so good it will continue to grow and prosper and become even more of a legacy...money isn't everything - England has just proven that, but the inherent value and culture of that black jersey is immeasurable and beyond pricing in pounds or dollars or yen...

Coaches learn from their mistakes, it's just few get a completely new go at it. Hansen had the Welsh loss record as well. Will the ABs be worse this year from that? No, that was years ago, as was 2005. Henry lost a World Cup. And won the next because of it. Next two between them actually...

Is Eddie Jones the coach who lost 8 out of 9 games in 2005? Sounds like good news for the opposition teams...

I agree, basically normal service from England. I guess what was the biggest failure was the fanfare before the RWC and the amount of money spent on the team, including Penney Hill. Before the RWC when England and others were heading off to Colorado and other less hospitable places (didn't the French train in the Alps) I was pondering why the ABs never do things like that. Were they missing something? As it turned out, no. I think the biggest failure for England was loss of face and there are very small margins between winning and losing.

DD Now that is one of the best "club vs country" appraisals I've read and all fair comments too. Makes it hard to contradict but gees, I for one hope that the NH club scene does implode around its own voracious, expansionist hunger. Nevertheless, it is interesting to compare your comments to the latest whispers originating out of the NRL circles within Australia - where it seems there's now a considered opinion to resurrect the international league season and matches, at the expense of the NRL club and SOO, rivalries. The drawing power of nationalistic fervour, centralised contracting and stay-to-play for the ABs, are probably the only saviours that NZRU has to remain an international rugby force.....but, I do harbour quiet concerns as to what may happen if the ABs, lose their matches rather than win, if the draw of finance exceeds the draw of the jersey because then and only then, the legacy of the silver fern on black, could well be tarnished for a long time if not, forever. And that, is something that I wish, must not happen - for the sake of SH rugby contests, anyway.

I'll mention it here cos I can't find another forum - Luther Burrell says.. "He let me down," (England Coach Stuart Lancaster) "That is how I feel about him. I have known Stuart a long time. I have a huge amount of respect for the bloke, what he's done and what he has achieved. I didn't think I had done anything to justify not getting selected." Newsflash Luther, you were SH * T in the warm up games --- s h*t. Tuilagi starts thumping female coppers, Billy Twelvetrees fails to repay any of the endless faith that's been placed in him and Luther Burrell decides to wander off form. Thats why you were dropped Luther, for being Sh* T. Rubbish. No good. We're talking a lot in this comments section about Rugby's Values.. I'm not so naive as to believe that all good players should turn out to be straight up guys but Luther whining about he's 'lost respect' for his team coach and 'feels let down' by him? All because he wasn't picked? When he was playing like crap? What, in The Actual, F ---?

How will club rugby ruin national sides in Europe? Or do you mean England and France?

The football WC has been relegated by the Champions League? This is new. I understand what you are saying though.

Were Scotland not beating the SHs 2nd best team until the ref incorrectly awarded Australia the winning penalty? Not exactly a clear demonstration there. Wales were also beating SA until the final minutes, the SHs 3rd best team. Im afraid you are not thinking properly about this. You know what the WC clearly demonstrated? That Wales and Scotland are capable of beating Aus and SA, Wales actually did beat SA in Nov and so did Ire. Nothing has changed, if anything the six nations sides have gained ground on SANZAR in recent years.

Oh ffs. England lost 2 games, 1 was against the 2nd best team on earth and now I have to listen to countless beeping beeps about how something that has been very common over the last 35 years has some deeper meaning, that its a sign that English rugby is in some kind of mess. Well B0ll0CKS! Its f-ing normal. Eng slightly underperformed and the sky is now falling? Ahh, no.

I readily agree that Rugby and Soccer are two different sports with different mindsets and values and excite different emotions. For example, as an Irishman, I can sometimes bring myself to support the English national rugby side - depending on whom they are playing - but I will NEVER support the English soccer team. Reason: I've been to games with English rugby fans (great people) and English soccer fans (scum of the earth). I generalise, naturally, and there is some overlap between the two but I'm not wildly wrong. Another example I have from my own experiences is an Italian Irish family I know and whom I saw at an Italy Ireland rugby match. One was wearing blue, the other green. Their rationale is they support both Italy and Ireland and when they play each other they just want a good match. Mind you, when Ireland play Italy at soccer in the World Cup or European Championships there's none of that bullshit: they are Azzurri first and last. And fair play to them. I remain convinced however that the aim of the major rugby club owners in England and France is not only to grow the audience for the game as a whole but to capture a large part of its affections for themselves. As the major soccer clubs in Europe have done. As the major American sports franchises are attempting to do. Do you think the owners of the San Fransico 49ers or the LA Lakers want an international competition between Team USA and other countries as the pinnacle of their sport? Hell no. "Why would you guys want to support an English/Australian/South African side when you can just as easily say 'How 'bout them Cowboys?' What the hell's a Waratah anyway?" Soon English Premiership Rugby will be saying to cable subscribers in Australia and New Zealand "Why waste time trudging to the local ground to watch the Brumbies or the Hurricanes when you can plonk down on your couch with a few tinnies and watch Northampton Saints play Leicester Tigers? Let's face it, many of your best players will be playing in that game anyway!" That is their intention and you are naive if you don't recognise it as such. Now. Whether they will be successful or not is another matter. As we are all agreed rugby is a different sport. Factors presenting a challenge to the clubs include the fact that rugby is a more primeval sport. It is hard to watch a game of rugby dispassionately. You have to have a real emotional interest in one of the teams. How else could you find a concerted scrum drive or a rolling maul uplifting? Watching your own countrymen steamroll the opposition of the ball is one thing; feeling uplifted at the sight of Harlequins doing it, if you are watching in Sydney or Auckland is quite another. It is perhaps no coincidence that International competition is the pinnacle of the game of rugby in a way it no longer is in soccer. The Champions League is a much higher standard than most international competition and why not? After all, if Italy or England or Spain want the best striker in the world they have to hope that he is born, raised or has ancestry in their particular country. If Real Madrid want the best striker in the world they just go out and buy him. Currently they employ Cristiano Ronaldo (Portugese) Other alumni include Zidane, (French) Di Stefano (Argentinian) Puskas (Hungarian) to name only the most celebrated off the top of my head. Another challenge for the clubs is there just might not be the amount of money in rugby to justify the large sums clubs seem prepared to spend on acquiring top playing talent. At the moment the English and French are flush with cash from a TV deal with BT Sport, the pay per view arm of a telecoms company that is muscling in on the territory of "traditional" TV channels like Sky(Fox). If indeed commercial satellite providers can be deemed "traditional". This has allowed the big clubs to go on a spending spree buying up talent from several countries. If they get wealthier, and it's a big if, they will hire more and better SH players and will do so at a much earlier stage in their careers than hitherto. There remains the possibility though that they have overestimated the market and that continuous upward pressure on wages will prove unsustainable. It may be too early to say definitively that this has changed matters radically but in the last round of the EPRC English clubs won all their head to heads with Pro 12 opposition. And I don't think that has happened in a single weekend before. Many of the best Welsh and Scottish players already play outside their own countries. Many Irish players are being enticed to to likewise. Does the IRFU have enough funds in its central contracting kitty to keep them? And more importantly for most readers here: do the unions of Australia and New Zealand? Not to mention the Pacific Islands?

DD - If I get your point clearly then IMO you are not comparing apples with apples either. On any given Saturday you would have to add Man City's and Chelsea's English players to those of Arsenal and Man U in order to field a team of Englishmen. Over 50% of players fielded last year were EQP's, the o'seas player eligibility rule is in place, as is the salary cap (not perfect but is stopping EPL type behaviour). Buckets of money will only England but the underperforming is due to poor coaching. England today has some world class players in Aviva. Eddie Jones should be aiming to win 6N in 2016. I don't buy this give us time to rebuild crap, every game should be a must win.

" When little Aussie Eddie said he wasnt ready Stormers knew he was a no-good kid .He would steal your wife and run off to a life of coaching for the highest bid !" Sung to the tune of "Eddie's Teddy " from "Rocky Horror "