AFL must try twilight grand final: Sheedy

Gee E-Meter...it won't take long to make your life even richer. Watch more AFL games, especially those involving Purple jumpers. Only one a year sounds like the deliberate asceticism of the desert fathers.

I watch one game of AFL a year - the grand final - and prefer the day time game. It's a good chance to get together at a mates place who hosts the GF every year and have a bbq, beer and a yak. Head home about 6pm. in bed by about 7pm. Snoring loudly by 7.05pm. Just wish the NRL GF was a day game.

Does anyone think we should change melbourne cup day to melbourne cup night? The whole race that stops the nation wouldn't have to stop the nation because most would have already finished work and we might get a few more veiwers on tv.

I can't speak of everyone but i suspect the majority of afl fans like the way it is right now. Its a full day and if your team wins you can celebrate into the night,even if your team loses you might go to the pub depressed find some like minded losers and dissect the game,complain about the umps/players missing easy goals etc. You might even after getting it all out of your system start to talk about how much better your chances will be next year. As a freo supporter this helps me a little bit,If i had to go straight to bad after watching another shocking display I don't think it would be good for my mental health. Also could you imagine If your team was in the final,What would you do all day waiting for the game to commence. What about the players?I reckon after the build up they'd be happy to play the game at 6 in the morning just to get the game started. But If there is some guys watching tv at night and they are flicking through channels and after there is no cooking/reality/weight loss/home reno shows they decide to have a look at this strange game they have never seen before. And the biggest loser is?

Rick- that's way too much for me to reply to in one post, so I'll just stick to the important stuff. If you think it is OK to ignore the overwhelming wishes of AFL football's genuine fans in an attempt to please a few other people who may or may not become AFL fans in the future, then maybe you can justify a night Grand Final. Just remember, the bigger viewership numbers (assuming they exist) may look good for the NRL, but they certainly won't make NRL the dominant code in the country- grassroots investment and junior development are the best ways to do that. Nearly every NRL fan I know says the AFL's day GF is better. Maybe they realize there are more important things than fireworks. The only thing about the AFL Grand Final that isn't better is the quality of entertainment they've had sometimes, Meatloaf being a case in point. If you have evidence that Meatloaf would've sung differently had that game been at night, I'd love to see it but quite frankly I think he's evidence that the AFL can't attract SuperBowl-style entertainment. There are two main reasons why the SuperBowl is the No.1 event on the USA calendar. One is that there is no other football code there that can properly compete. The other is that it occurs at a time of year when two-thirds of the country is snowed under and there is nothing else to do on a weekend but watch TV. Until GilMac admits these factors then his argument that the AFL can create a SuperBowl lack credibility. As for your argument that many non-AFL fans might fall in love with the game after seeing one great match- read my previous argument that there are 26 other weeks of the year when they can do this. And as I said (and as you foolishly dismissed)- Grand Finals are not always great matches and should not be relied upon as a method to attract people who don't really care about sport at all.

Interesting choice of words, Grumpy Bruce. What bit is being ignored? Because all of Australia watches it, you don't need any more to see it. Don't know how rugby gets into the conversation. That game of fat guys falling over is not in competition. It happens at another time.

Problem is the AFL GF is normally a week before the NRL GF. Meaning a Saturday nigh AFL GF will be up against NRL finals. For the AFL GF to be played at night it will have to move to a Sunday. Or the first Saturday in October.

All industry experts (football and television) will tell you that a Sat. evening game/show will rate higher than the equivalent on Saturday afternoon - Sunday night even better !

'All of Australia watches it already', typically ignorant comment from a Victorian Rules follower Don. The only reason they would change the time is to try and catch up to the NRL grand final which this year had 600,000 more viewers than the Vic. Rules non game. If they change to a night game they might catch up.

Col read my comments above to Andy. They address most of your comments here also. It's currently under moderation, most likely due to its epic length.

Now you are making an argument and one I can chomp my teeth into. "A day Grand Final is still the most preferred option among AFL fans surveyed." Absolutely agree, but like most things in life, people either don't like change, or struggle to see the long-term benefits. Just because it's the preferred option of AFL fans surveyed, doesn't mean a large percentage of those same fans are against the idea either. They may be, but you can't show this with any certainty, which negates a large portion of your argument here. "I won’t support change until I see evidence that such change would actually bring benefits" What evidence would you like to see here? "You seem to have gone off the NSW/QLD argument now and I’m going to bring it back- if these prime-time northerners can’t be wooed with 26 other weeks of night football, how would a night Grand Final suddenly get them interested?" It's the same principal the NRL are using with Origin. A vast majority of Australian's don't regularly follow any major elite sport, so we are actually in the minority. This is a huge market for every code to try and tap into and advertising the best your sport has to offer during prime time is the best way to attract new blood to the sport. It's basic marketing 101. So in answer to your question, many people may not even know about AFL. Don't be ignorant like Don who believe's everyone follows the AFL, because many here in Sydney wouldn't even know the Swans brand. I'd go even further and say many don't know half the NRL teams! Many people who know about the AFL, but don't follow it during the year, might fall in love after witnessing a great match. This would not be possible though if they are at the beach during the day. The Super Bowl is a classic example of an event. It has become so huge in the USA that the bandwagon affect takes hold, resulting in their biggest sporting event each-and-every year. Everything else pales in comparison. Let me ask you this. What is the biggest sporting event in Australia? Melbourne Cup, Australian Open Final, Origin, NRL GF, AFL GF etc... Not easy to answer, but that's not the case in the USA. Gill has already discussed at length how he wants the AFL GF to unfold over the coming decade. The most important thing the AFL GF must be is entertaining, and not just from a sporting contest/spectacle either. It must be an entire entertainment package. The Super Bowl halftime entertainment for next year has just been announced - Cold Play. One of the biggest bands in the world in their PRIME! This year it was Katie Perry - one of the biggest pop artist in her PRIME! Couple this with night time fireworks and light shows (which never work in the daytime) and you start building the foundations for an all-round entertainment experience that people outside of just football will want to watch. This is key in a market where there are four competing football codes, all vying to be number 1! Make no mistake, if the AFL does not stay ahead of the curve, it will get swallowed up by other sports who are willing to take calculated risks. "Especially if it’s like the last two GFs where the losing side barely shows up?" This comment has no relevance in this discussion. It's nothing more than a uncontrolled variable.

We make up so many excuses for an event that occurs once a year (young children have to stay up, fans have to stay up, etc). Your team wins the Grand Final, possibly for the first time in 20 years and you think: ‘oh dear, they've won the flag and it's just gone 10.30pm – best I go to bed'. Unlikely. Is there such a big debate about what time the Preliminary Finals are played? Most recent ones have been either night games, or twilight games. The Preliminary Final night match at the MCG is a massive celebration, especially if there are two Victorian teams playing. I honestly don't think a night or twilight Grand Final is such a great big change. Sure, it's a different experience compared to day Grand Final for players, crowd and TV audience but I don't too many people that would prefer to watch a day Grand Final will decide a night/twilight match is not for them and won't watch it at all.

Rick, in an article in the Age they ran a poll for the best time to play the GF. Of 1388 votes cast 83% preferred a day game, 8% wanted a night final and 9% a twilight final. I think that shows that the majority of people support a day grand final. I am also sure that if you asked the players they would also prefer to play the game during the day. I don't think they would enjoy waiting 10 plus hours after waking up for the game to start. I am sure the nerves are already bad waiting until 2.30 in the afternoon. A late GF also would take away celebration time for the fans of the winning team. If the game doesn't finish until 10.30pm then most fans (including young children) wouldn't get the opportunity to celebrate as they do now. The game should be for the enjoyment of fans and the preferences of the players not the broadcasters.

A day Grand Final is still the most preferred option among AFL fans surveyed. I don't think "give it a go" is a strong enough argument for change. It may be a strong enough argument when it's a single cricket test against a minnow country at a time when test cricket is struggling for crowds, but given that the AFL Grand Final already has massive popularity in its current timeslot, I won't support change until I see evidence that such change would actually bring benefits. If the AFL feels the only way to know is to take the big risk, then to me it's not a risk worth taking. You seem to have gone off the NSW/QLD argument now and I'm going to bring it back- if these prime-time northerners can't be wooed with 26 other weeks of night football, how would a night Grand Final suddenly get them interested? Especially if it's like the last two GFs where the losing side barely shows up?

"You seem to be saying that the most important people to the AFL should be the ones who’ll turn on the football because they have nothing better to do." It's a little more complex than that Andy. "there are other ways we can get such people interested in football without displeasing the game’s biggest fans." You are assuming all or a vast majority of AFL fans would be displeased by moving the AFL GF with that comment. Firstly, I can tell you I would prefer a twilight GF. I know many AFL fans who would prefer a night GF. You have a valid point, but you're not constructing a valid argument as to 'why' we shouldn't trial a twilight GF. I'm absolutely sure a twilight GF would annoy some AFL fans. I'm absolutely sure some of those would show their protest by never watching the AFL ever again, but I doubt they would be in large numbers. If this loss did not exceed the numbers gained by employing such a strategy then I'm all for it. It's simple maths for the AFL Andy. Neither you or myself can answer whether that would happen, nor the AFL. The only way to truly find out is to take the risk and I believe the rewards far out weigh the risks you are eluding to.

I never said that AFL dominates the NSW/QLD landscape. You seem to be saying that the most important people to the AFL should be the ones who'll turn on the football because they have nothing better to do. I question why we would move the Grand Final from its preferred timeslot solely to satisfy these people- there are other ways we can get such people interested in football without displeasing the game's biggest fans. There is no point having football fans who only tune in for the Grand Final. If there are people who can only watch football at night then there are 26 other weeks of the year through which the sport can attract these people.

Further to what Rick is saying, the difference in total number of TV viewers between prime time Sunday night and a Saturday afternoon, is massive, many multiples more are regularly watching TV on a Sunday night I'm not saying the AFL should shift to Sunday night, obviously that won't happen, but there's a reason why they keep looking at night grand finals - because Saturday afternoon is the traditional dead zone of TV watching.

On Grand Final day, no one has "better things to do".

"and their people will watch a day Grand Final if they want to." It's really not that difficult to understand Andy. Prime time is precisely that, a time when 'more' people sit and watch TV. Many people have better things to do during the day than watch a game they may have a vague interest in, irrespective of whether they know much about it or not. However, many of these people may come to love the game after watching the AFL's premier event and jump on board the following season should they be exposed to it during a time that's convenient to them - prime time! That's what exposure does Andy, and it's particularly important in the Northern States where AFL does not dominate the landscape, despite what some ignorant AFL fans here believe.

"The game needs greater exposure in the Northern states for its finale." Most of NSW and QLD already get decent exposure to AFL football and their people will watch a day Grand Final if they want to. If some farmer in Cloncurry hasn't heard of the game yet I don't think a prime-time slot is going to change much.