I was there on Saturday night at ANZ Stadium, part of history, part of over 60,000 people at a regular round football match. Amazing!
For these Sydney derby matches it’s not about just the game any more. It’s now officially ‘a thing’, an event, an experience. Like league’s State of Origin that grabs the attention of people who aren’t necessarily fans of that code as their first preference, the Sydney derby is something to be part of.
Unlike it’s contrived AFL rivalry, this is a genuine ‘us and them’ contest.
The atmosphere created by the passionate fans creates the sense of ‘event’, draws the casual observer to the game. I’ve been a regular at AFL (chanting after a goal, cheering when it’s close in the last quarter), NRL (chanting after a try, cheering when the team gets near the try line or the score is close in the last ten minutes), rugby (‘Come on lads’, if it’s close with two minutes to go) and football games in Australia.
However, this leaves all those for dead in terms of the game day atmosphere. It’s a cross between a high school sports carnival, emotional political protest and full on religious rally, all rolled into one.
But there’s a problematic side to it all. There’s a fine line between banter and bad-mouthing, and where I was sitting it got crossed. My comments are about some of the Sydney FC cheering, not because I’m singling out one side because it’s all I could hear. I have no idea what the Wanderers were saying, it was too far away – a problem with ANZ Stadium, but that’s another topic altogether.
Sydney scored a third goal, a clever, cheeky free kick around the wall and into the net in front of us. The response, after the initial gobsmacked disbelief and excitement, was this chant: ‘F__ you Western Sydney scum, Ole’.
If this was the first time in the night for this chorus you might just take it as one-off excitement, but no, it was one of the regular favourites.
Which part of that chant makes it OK? It’s neither witty or humorous. If you said it to someone at work you’d be disciplined. How do I explain to my young son sitting next to me that this is all just a fun part of the way things are at a football match? Should he copy that next week at the local suburban ground?
The tribalism, the sense of being part of ‘us’, is powerful. I felt it on Saturday, and you could see it on the faces of people chanting. Maybe the theories about sport as a safe outlet for aggression are right in some way, but unchecked tribalism has ways of spilling over into hatred and violence, as history shows us only too often.
When chanting and cheering becomes abuse, even if partly in light-hearted humour, it’s gone too far. I’m not saying we should go back to high school sports, but surely there can be passion, singing and celebration without the abusive tone and the hint of menace.
marron
Guest
State of mind innit eddy. You lot aligned yourself with one state of mind. The state of mind that said from the very beginning, this club is associated with the big end of town. And in Sydney, there's a long long history of that state of mind and what it represents. "East" is shorthand for that. When you sing "western Sydney", you can say what you like, but it's shorthand too.
marron
Guest
Ever ask yourself why these people wouldn't travel 30k for you guys but travel 1000s of ks for their club now? Outer western suburbs eh. Nice differentiation. Interesting. So "western Sydney" (not "Wanderers" mind) is in reference to the club, but "east Sydney" is not? The club is on the eastern fringe of the city. From day dot it aligned itself with the big end of town in a number of ways. Regardless of where you live in the Sydney basin, you make the choice about what you align yourself with. And when you sing "western Sydney scum", you tap into a very long social history that runs through the city. The label "esfc" isn't differentiation. You guys did that yourselves. It's acknowledgement of the cultural aspects of Sydney you represent.
Battered Sav
Guest
As a rule, you can usually stop reading something as soon as you encounter the word "problematic".
eddy
Guest
From what I can tell, vast majority sing it, as 'Western Sydney' refers to the club itself ie NRMAWSWFC not the physcial location. .It's a reference to fans abandoning its own club of the first 7 years of the a-league, or apathy to travel 30km to get to a game in that period. It's bizarre how the outer western suburbs (wsw) fans call Sydney FC esfc to try to differentiate itself yet at the same time completely acknowledge fans come from all over sydney, the vast not from the east.
Bondy
Guest
Football offers a great experience but it also has its rabble element to it as well , I think FFA are understanding that it has to be calmed down a bit, swearing chanting is not cool or fun .
Josh
Guest
We have pointed out the problem in that chant to ESFC several times, I wonder what ESFC fans who actually live in Western Sydney do when that chant goes up ?
Kaks
Roar Guru
Nice bait, should get a few snags with that one
Graeme
Guest
Good points Sydneysider - I agree that swearing is part of being in a crowd wherever you go, that's just part of the deal. As you point out, it is the fact that it was part of organised cheering that unnerved me ... I felt the tone of calling people 'scum' had an extra edge to it when it's done by a crowd. There's a kind of mob mentality that's potentially dangerous
eddy
Guest
Sam, I think you will find the reference here was that 'country' referred to Sydney being the top football team in all the country, not just 'this city'. That's the way I saw it anyway. I don't think it had any reference to race or migrants whatsoever. It was football related.
Mister Football
Roar Guru
Soccer is a passionate game, and is built primarily on young males being allowed to act in a manner which would normally draw a sharp rebuke in polite company.
Sam
Guest
While admittedly a little childish, the "F- you Western Sydney" chant doesn't cross the line into inappropriateness in my opinion. I'm fine with it. What does cross the line is a chant I heard from some of my fellow Sydney FC fans while walking back to the train station. It started with "This city is ours" which is a fine, normal bit of football tribalism but eventually the fans started chanting "This country is ours" with the obvious connotations about large migrant populations living in Western Sydney. This is NOT okay and this and any similar racist chants have no place in our team, our game, or our country.
Sydneysider
Guest
"If this was the first time in the night for this chorus you might just take it as one-off excitement, but no, it was one of the regular favourites. Which part of that chant makes it OK? It’s neither witty or humorous. If you said it to someone at work you’d be disciplined. How do I explain to my young son sitting next to me that this is all just a fun part of the way things are at a football match? Should he copy that next week at the local suburban ground?" Graeme I think the issue you have with it is the fact that it's "organised" chanting and singing with swearing in it. So perhaps one off swearing by individuals at an NRL game is ok(happens alot, I am one of those who swears at Jason Taylor for not giving Robbie Farah a fair go) and same for an AFL or cricket match, but it's not ok when it's organised by a home end group with colour and passion?? Have you been to the SCG for a cricket one-dayer or T20 match???? What about the "budgie 9" at the Malaysian GP with their so called hilarious antics of stripping down to their underwear in a foreign country??? Ever been to a state of origin match in Brisbane as a NSW supporter (I have as well)??? Nah, it's all good. Boys will be boys. I'm not condoning the swearing but it happens at all those other sporting events too.
Nemesis
Guest
If swearing by fans is the only negative confronting newcomers attending an A-League match, we can be very proud. At other sports Indigenous players are vilified, people with ethnic names are abused, the umpires are abused every 30 seconds when fans of one team think they should get a free kick, women are punched by drunk thugs, banners are on display telling certain religions they're not welcome in Australia. Swearing happens in life - on the street, in your backyard when you're having a BBQ with friends, when you're in the car and you're late to drop the kids off at school. Swearing happens in football. It happened when I was a kid. The world didn't come tumbling down.
punter
Guest
He would be regarded as a highly opinionated goose if he was white, but not hated with passion.
marcel
Guest
My Dad used to say exactly that to me when I was a kid....as well as something like " and don't tell your Mother! " It's just that these days Mum and the sisters are equally likely to be at the ground. . It would be nice to think we could evolve accordingly
Karl
Guest
Explain to your kids never to repeat what is said at the football. If you want an eye opener with swearing sit in the Punt Road end at a Richmond home game. That's an eye opener
marcel
Guest
Mundine would have still been considered a goose if he was white.
melbourneterrace
Guest
Yawn. You're not at work and your son isn't at school. Explain to him the difference and get over it. People swear at football like they have for decades.
marcel
Guest
It continues to disappoint me as well Graeme... the "insert team name...F #ck off home" chant is one I find particularly puerile. Oh . .and thank-you for voicing your opinion without blaming the FFA or suggesting it's the end of the world as we know it.
punter
Guest
Graeme, I'm glad you enjoyed your night out, it was a night to remember. Having a look at your profile, I see you are maybe a Swans & Dragons fan. I am also a dragons fan & saw many games in the 80s & 90s, I dropped a lot of interest after the advent of the A-League, though I did rejoice in GF win in 2010. I would say having been to many SFC games & Dragons games, I agree with you the tribalism is much stronger in the A-league games. Whether it's a fine line or not is another matter, I have to admit I have not felt more unsafe at either RL or football game. While the chanting is more mob like in football then in RL, the swearing is the same. I do recall the 'Wally's a W' in SOO games, not to mention Hadlee is the same & Murli both a chucker & a W', in the cricket, while chanting Warnie, who was the real cheat in more ways then one. Never been to Claxton rd for SOO, I hear the NSW players reckon that is quite intimidating. Only been to 1 Swans game 10 years ago, so can't comment there, but I wonder what you said to your son about the booing of Adam Goodes because he was not white with an opinion. Lucky he was too young when that great St George player Anthony Mundine became the most hated sportsman in Australia, because he had opinions & was not white. The fact that he did not drink, didn't do drugs & respected women, while others footballers of the local codes, well to put it nicely didn't respect the society they live in.