Time to put the boot into the Wallabies

gs your lack of belief, about the lack of belief, is beyond belief.

The man is a self confessed rugby league junky, forgets that this is rugby and the kick game is part of it!! Becoming predictable and he has no real exit strategies at all!!

One of the problems of assessing modern sport as I see it, is the way we've become obsessed with stats. Ball carries, line breaks, tackles missed, possession in opposition half, continuous phases, metres run, the list goes on. Of course, all these stats tell us something. But they often don't tell us the most important things, like when was a player or team most productive at what they did. Most of a rugby match is concerned with getting into a position to score tries, or at least points. At least that's what the better teams are trying to do. But it's what they do when the opportunity presents itself that is the most important stat of all. For example, 20 continuous phases means bugger-all if the ball is knocked on during the 21st carry. David Campese is the best Wallaby winger I've ever seen. I would suggest he is also the best winger of any country I've seen. Let's just say he was as good as anyone else, if not necessarily better. Campo was a genius but he wasn't an 80 minute player. Nor was he a great defender. But in the first instant he watched & waited to make his move & more often than not,his timing & injection was spot on. In the second instant he could tackle if he had to. Campo made mistakes. But then he tried things more often than most others. That's the way it goes. Make mistakes but also achieve more. Try to avoid mistakes but do very little to ensure you don't muck up. The great players are always judged by the magical things they did at precisely the right moment. I was reading a book the other day on the history of the Currie Cup. The greatest player, the most influential player in the Currie Cup was Naas Botha. Botha developed a reputation as merely a kicker & non-tackler. But his Northern Transvaal Blue Bulls coach gave the teenage Botha some firm instructions when he first came into the provincial team. "You're no good to me on the ground. Stay on your feet", boomed his coach. The coach understood that Botha was a match winner with his kicking, whether tactical, for goal or drops. Other players could cover for Botha in defence. His job was to score points & win matches. Botha could tackle when he had to. He could also run & pass when he had to. But he was born with a prodigious gift for kicking, & that's what his perceptive coach wanted from him. And it worked. In the 16 years Botha played for NT, 1977-92, the Blue Bulls made 14 finals, winning 10 sharing two (draws) & losing only two. In 1979, a last minute drop secured a 15-15 draw, with Botha scoring all his team's points. In 1987, Botha scored all of his team's 24 points, with 4 penalties & 4 drops. He won so many games off his boot. He holds the record for most CC points, 1699, nearly 300 more than the next best. With his boot, he was the Bradman of South African rugby. Botha was great & allowed to be great because his coach was smart enough to realise his brilliance & set up the platform that allowed him to do his magic. Same with Campo. When Bob Dwyer began his second term of Wallaby coach from 1988-95, he gave Campo a roving commission to come off his wing & roam at will. As a result Campo was often brilliant, winning matches with his perceptive daring-do. Some guys are born to be grafters, & they love that role. Other guys are born to be the stars, & they obviously love that role also. The stats tell us many things. But they never tell us everything.

"And the team chases better", correct Fionn like most things the Wallyb's do is have an erratic chase on the kick.

In Brief ..... in reference to your comment "There is no guarantee that with a different game plan the result would have improved" Take another look at the first half of the first test against England in Brissy this year and tell me how it differs from Saturdays test at Twickenham We had England on the ropes after two early tries (both unconverted), then make an error from a Ben Youngs box kick which results in Jonathon Joseph scoring a try against the run of play. Rather than leading by 20, we trail by 6 at half time. Bottom line is we keep making the same mistakes, so need to improve our skills or reassess how we approach the whole 80mins. I love that we play positive rugby but we need better game management.

I can't abide by tip footy rules where kicking is prohibited. Played tip lunch time at school for years - the threat to defence of the chip/grubber, was what kept 'running tip' possible! The kicks don't exist for their own sake - rather to give running offence a chance, against otherwise strangling defence. KP

Our backs making breaks/yards have actually not been an issue on tour. Our main issues were: 1. "discipline" at the breakdown - which was a farce against Ireland (see 5) 2. Handling in attack 3. Lack of ball running forwards 4. Defence 5. Perplexing officiating Cooper and Beale will not fix these things

sorry Richard. yeah the WBs of the 80's, 90's early 2000's and even still upto and including the Deans era showed a lot of nous, street smarts and mental fortitude. this current crop I don't get the same vibe.

"our forwards got owned in the second half.. through lack of skill, fitness and a bit of ticker"

"Australia made a couple of dumb mistakes which cost them the match. ... on top for large portions ... England scored a couple of lucky tries. ... for much of the match the Wallabies were dominating."

I've thought about this and don't actually think Cheika is against tactical kicking, Cooper, Beale Haylett-Petty, Toomua, Genia, Giteau, Mitchell and even Kerevi have all employed it appropriately when the opportunity arises. I just don't think Phipps is much of a kicker and Foley lacks the brains to know when to do it. Hodge might be ok with some more experience though, he certainly has the power to turn a fullback around if he can get the accuracy right. Basically if we want a decent kicking game next year Genia needs to play and Cooper needs to play so well at Super Rugby level that Cheika has the confidence to select him.

Australia made a couple of dumb mistakes which cost them the match. However they were on top for large portions of the match, and England scored a couple of lucky tries. In other words, for much of the match the Wallabies were dominating. There is no guarantee that with a different game plan the result would have improved. I would prefer to see them play attacking football and lose than go into the shell. A comparison from another sport would be an all court tennis player like Federer. Guys like this always take longer to start winning as they are playing attacking, brave tennis which requires a lot of skill and years to master. I used to bemoan rugby teams for lacking adventure -the All Blacks (as yes they do kick) have shown that a skilful team can do well. But it takes time. A lot of tennis coaches teach juniors a defensive game plan to get instant success - the beautiful game takes longer to achieve and you have to ride the lows to get the highs. I've seen enough from this Wallabies team to believe the highs will come sooner than later. We just need a bit of belief and patience.

One of the best players throughout the internationals was Genia. How good is a sport doing when instead of stacking cash to get him home they focus on better negotiations with French clubs or lobbying for an international season? Administrators that have failed the sport should lose pay and bonuses that should go to bringing home Genia, Beale and Toomua.

Basically Australia needs to mix things up a bit more and be less predictable. If sides like Ireland and England that are well prepared and organsed know that Australia will try to run every ball they get they will generally be better prepared to stop that. There is nothing wrong with tactical kicking. New Zealand kicked as much or more ball at various stages of the last few years than most other sides. You also need to be strong right across the park. There is no point in positioning yourself as an attacking backs side because having a strong forward pack and good set piece is just as if not more important.

well done croc.. amazing how so many 'rugby' fans have no idea.. all this window dressing out the back is zero and let's be honest, bias based.. our forwards got owned in the second half.. through lack of skill, fitness and a bit of ticker.. they just disappeared.. but no, here on roar the problem for the majority of 'rugby' fans is the no.9 and no. 10.. amazing.. and now we are going to have a whole off season with the same old stuff.. thankfully for the that other group of rugby fans there is the six nations..

Its 'the secret' all over again isnt it grapeseed....? 'you can have anything you want as long as you just believe and want it enough'... therefore clearly not winning = not enough belief...

Until the forwards can win the battle up front anything else is just fluff around the edges. Including kicks. Fix the pack first.

I was just scrolling down to have my say Sandgroper - and see you have taken my position already. The kicking is superfluous if we don't have a chase. It is lazy football and sadly endemic across Australian teams generally. (although DHP should get a gold star for effort on this front). The Wallabies look like a team in flux, as they are trying to re-learn old forgotten skills, like inside passing, loops, variation in lineouts, etc that Mick Byrne has been brought in. Like all teams learning a new skill, usually as 10 year olds though, they often over-play the new skill. Time will tell but they need to drastically improve next year and I hope the skill component of training is bashed into the NRC and Super teams over the next few years....

How can you improve Bernard Foley?? ..How ?? ..The bloke is a midget and his legs are two short for long clearing kicks...

I don't think anyone's described him as a miracle worker and I don't think kicking has been his sole focus. I think we've seen notable improvement in ball handling - admittedly still a long way from consistently great.