The FFA would be wrong to ignore South Melbourne

Sydney City Hakoa WAS and still is one of the most successful National League side in history - probably 8 or 9 internationals every week and dominated, usually without the mass crowds. I supported watched them most matches in the early-mid 80's and in fact was the only time I experienced any 'racism' in Football - ( I'm of Anglo background by the way ) where supporters mainly Croatia/ Olympic would say ' you f... k Jews ' etc - in fact once we pointed out the only Jewish person around here was 'your Goal Keeper' (Gary Meir). The atmosphere and loyal supporters of Sydney City were something to be part of - 'us' v them - and to watch Eddie Thomson's teams of those days was Football at it's best - at the old ES Marks Field or visiting enemy territory at somewhere like Prattan Park Having said that, I believe other Melbourne clubs are just as strong as South Melbourne ( Preston, Heidelberg, Knights) so why just single out South Melbourne ?

Firstly the two parts of your question are mutually independent. 1)No there is no geographical divide in Melbourne and therefore no geographical differentiation between MV and MC. 2) we need to evolve the language we use. An English man in china is an ethnic. Greeks are not ethnics. They stopped being ethnics a generation or two ago. Will smfcs fanbase contain within it Australians with peculiar surnames? Of course. And it doesn't matter. Nor is it remarkable. And most definitely not morally appropriate to ethnically profile sections of the Australian community anymore. Or hold a belief that where someone grandparents were born qualifies to what degree they are Australian. They are as Australian as you and I. If you want to know the stats. 50% of their fanbase is not descendant from you know which country. How do they continue to broaden their base? Marquees. And to win trophies with these marquess.They already have Real Madrid legend Roberto Carlos as coach on board for a start who will attract yoshi kids and their parents who love Real Madrid. Broadening their base is happening, it's inevitable. It's the easy part. They area progressive club.

Is there any geographical differentiation with MV and MC, Hulk? I'm not strong on Melbourne's demographics. I assume that if there isn't, SMFC would be relying on support from a Greek Australian ethnic base. Is that correct?

Don't let big derby numbers paper over the cracks of an unsustainable model. And the one figure that really matters. That would secure footballs future is the engaged participants stat. Let's see if that 18% ever shifts in our lifetimes. Has it ever shifted during Lowy's tenure? That's one stat id like to know.

Se melb services all the clubs in se melb. No one club has dibs on it. One things for sure, it's a big SMFC region. The Casey bid is like saying we are ccm and train in Gosford but our home ground is in sydney cbd. It's laughable.

Hulk - Did you miss my last sentence. Has "he" improved football in this country??? The figures appear to say a resounding ---"YES" jb

So because he's done good stuff we should look the other way when he breaks the law/all laws of ethics? This is crazy logic. Jaw-dropping. That's not how a free and fair society works. We don't need business practices that would make communist china blush in our game. Lowy set up his version of what he thought football should be. Unfortunately he chose to go with the model no one else in the world employs (except USA). It's arguable he's painted aus football into a corner, certainly he has for the next 6 years. We are in dire need of expansion. (And we are rediscovering the black art that is expansion of a closed league. Risky business. All the other countries in the world don't have this problem you know.. (They allow p/r to determine who plays. Not surprised frank is against the spirit of competition and democracy). We are reduced to contriving football clubs tht may or may not succeed. He's turned aus football into Westfield shopping town.. It's frankly disgusting. We remain at 18% engagement. They have the biggest demo in the country and the dumbest admin model that by it's very nature cuts off the base of that pyramid.. And anyone wonders why that 18% never shifts? A competent admin doubles that to atleast %40. And Things have evidently plateaued. MVFCs fan base certainly has. It's stopped going from strength to strength and is now hovering. And wsw isn't exactly exponential growth anymore either. The 'football people' % of the engaged HAL fans demo are bored. You can't dish MVFC vs mcfc 158 times a season and expect them to not be so bored they're pulling their hair out. I'm not sure a couple of average rating new expansion clubs are going to give the shot in the arm to football in this country that FFA expect. And how do you feel about expansion into Singapore? Frank was always all about that. Lol. You'll defend us becoming an ASEAN league? Ludicrous. I'm not thanking god he took over. Someone else might've done better. I don't go through life playing the lesser of two evils game. Sorry. I'm looking to improve football in this country. It transcends hero worship. It's bigger than individuals.

I heard its still late January ... lets hope so anyway... AS for Souths getting in I am undecided ... I through along with PG they were the most ready to move to the A-League they had been changing as a club for a few years ... Given we have 12 bids I would like to access each of the bids... Hul... given you live in the area one thing has me puzzled and would love someone on the ground to explain... Both SM and the Casey / Dandy bid claim to have south east Melbourne, yet I also read where some folk say SM are too close to the inner city... I have no idea of Melbourne and its lay out can you explain how they can both claim the same area and why some ay SM are an inner city team

Hulk If I may yes your are correct Frank Lowy has not adhered to all Crawford recommendations.. Further his son ran as you suggested unopposed... You could also add his ownership of SFC when he was also chairman of the FFA. Also accepting Lowy has made a number of errors in his time in charge.. Having said all this thank god he put his hand up and took over ... he got us away from Oceania and into Asia and the FFA board and their three chosen CEO's in JON, Ben Buckly and David Gallop have created a league were we have I think 12 bids to join and somewhere between a 60 and 90 million dollar media deal, have made the last 3 world cups, hopefully a fourth soon. We look like having one maybe two games per week on a commercial FTA station and we have had a womens league for a number of years, FFA turn over is over 100 million dollars per year. I don't think any other person in Australia could have achieved what Frank Lowy has done... it will soon be time for the Lowy family to move on but I challenge anyone to nominate any person who could have achieved more .... over the last 12 or so years... major achievements as I see them, all A-League matches have been broadcast, a major change in media towards football, a FFA Cup, the W-League, the NPP, the move into Asia... making 3 world cups [consider our record before only one] , national training systems, ... now we have somewhere between a 60 million and 90 million dollar media deal and one maybe two matches broadcast on a commercial network... Mistakes plenty of those as well but on balance IMO a good job.

It's not about my personal opinion of lowy. He has publicly commited nepotism. Broad daylight. Fifa unhappy. It's not a secret. It's been in the media. Tune into reality. You brought up the Crawford report and it seriously backfired on you bigtime. It stipulates the league should be a separate body. It stipulates we should follow all fifa statues ie. Pro/rel. ie. not a closed franchise league. you're saying the old socca admin wouldn't adhere to Crawford... Like it's a badge of honor or something (weird). And then you're failing to admit, and it's quite embarrassing frankly, how your idol frank ISNT adhering to Crawford either. And fifa are on their way here bc they aren't happy that FFA aren't following their statutes, and neither are the current owners who are bordering on revolt...it's NSL all over again....and you can't bring yourself to admit it. Lastly jb I'm a MVFC fan. Lol. I'm not interested in any peeing contests between NSL vs HAL. It's an infantile and pointless exercise. I'm here to discuss the crediblity and viability of SMFC's bid. It stands head and shoulders above all other bids. You want to talk in abstract and arbitrary statistics to prove weird hypotheses.....and to spread misinformation to fadida about how south wasn't a "big fish" in the NSL... And chose to omit the insignificant fact that they are only equally the most successful club of the past era. And I stepped in to correct your dog and pony show. And then the argument that trophies don't determine the best clubs. Lol. Just lol. Why would you talk about the old defunct competition they played in and not discuss the current comp they've been playing in and winning, and the current shape they're in simply beggars belief.

Hulk- You obviously don't like Lowy. That's your opinon.. However you again stretch the truth somewhat when you break down the Crawford report into what happened after the report was released rather than state why the investigation was requested by the government of the day. I'll try and refresh your memory. As the investigation resullts were released in 2003 we have to assume they began sometime from 2001-2. (Frank Lowy did not hold a position in Soccer Australia at that time).He was obviously building up his Westfield empire. 'Nuff said. The four reasons for the government requesting the Crawford report were given as thus--- (1)Soccer Australia was almost bankrupt with no funds to support the Socceroos in Wprld competitions. (2) A Four Corners investigation into claims of corruption in football management in general. (3) The obvious in-fighting going on all over the country in football management structures,especially in NSW and Victoria. (4)The refusal of the then ruling Soccer body Soccer Australia to accept any findings that the Crawford report uncovered.!!!!! The findings were released in 2003 .Lowy appeared again in 2004 after being approached by the government of the day. Now lets leave it at that for I don't really want to read your discussion which apparently only suits the points you are trying to make. By the way another stat that may interest you is the "derby crowd" from an NSL year. Melbourne Knights v South Melbourne pulled 8500 fans in 1988 In 2004 (the last year of NSL) the "interstate derby" Sydney Olympic v SM drew 3682 Compare that with this year's Sydney derby between Sydney FC and WSW. at 61,880 or the Melbourne derby between Victory and City sitting at 43,118 !!!!!!!!. Hmmmmm !!! cheers jb.

They've pushed it back to July I heard.,, I could be wrong though.. Point is, there is no criteria. They used these expansion bids as fodder for the TV deal. A stab in the dark would be ffa will go with 2 of either strikers, Geelong, sth sydney or Tasmania.

Jb You worship the ground lowy walks on. He is corrupt. He disregarded the democratic process and his son stood unopposed for the job. This is nepotism. It is the dictionary definition of corruption. Fifa aren't happy about this. You need to wake up. The worldwide measurement for a successful sporting entity is trophies. Sorry. Employ all the smoke and mirror you like. Have you seen how the NPL is run? Have you seen how the HAL is run? Yes I know what the ruddy Crawford report is. The Crawford report stipulates the a-league should be a seperate body from FFA... How's your mate frank going on putting a stop to that point... Crawford didn't recommend shutting down the NSL. Your mate frank did that when created the FFA. You can't trip me up jb. Crawford also recommend we follow fifa statues. That means having a second division and pro/rel. How's your mate frank going on that? And you didn't answer my earlier post about how the *current* owners are *currently* at war with franks dictatorship.

Thanks, mate.

Hulk -Your navy blue bias is showing through very loudly. You go on about nepotism at FFA level and what that has to do with the NSL I do not know but if what you are implying is that 11 years of HAL football has been a bad "performance" then why not just say so. Now if you care to go back to my original comment you will note I singled out the first 10 years of NSL football when nominating the "best" team in that league at that time. Do you dispute that fact? If so ,why not just say so. You obviously measure success by the number of trophies won ,is that no matter in what league or in what standard of football?. If you think that is correct the just say so. So don't "die" just express yourself a bit better. Just between you and me I saw the way the NSL was being run ,first hand,and by 1987 it was fast becoming obvious that the whole concept was beiing eroded, not by Charlle Egan,Paul Trimboli. Paul Wade, Mehmet Durakovic ,or even Vince Lia and Galekovic,(still playing in the HAL) but behind the scenes goings on that beggared description. It was that turmoil that forced Frank Lowy out of the game where he remained for 20 years until he was asked to resurrect the top end of the game. (You have of course studied the Crawford Report)? Yes? No?. But then again he hasn't done a good job ,has he,-----according to you!!. Cheers and all the best jb.

"I simply pointed out that there were clubs in the NSL that had better performance figures than SM" Which performance figure is better than trophies. Please tell me I'm dying to know. Again, have SMFC continually won trophies since the NSL? Do you have a historical epic for us on anything that happened post NSL? Or who the current NPL champions are?(cough cough SMFC) Or did you sleep under a rock since then?

They have said February, Ben.

Jb No what's a myth is you saying that they weren't a big fish. It's a misrepresentation of the (equally) most successful club in the NSL era. Someone like you who waffles on so much about history should not attempt to rewrite it whilst doing so. "By the way Frank Lowy is no longer at the FFA he retired last year. Had you not noticed.?" Have you noticed that the democratic process was tossed in the bin by your corrupt football-resurrecting/hostage taking idol frank lowy and you missed his nepotism when he slotted junior into his place. Something that fifa are unhappy about, and we all should be marching in the streets over. If he's not pulling the strings then I'm Michael corleone. And lastly forget the rudding NSL jb. It's ancient history. Why would you use the performance of a club in a defunct comp as a measurement for anything? especially if that club has performed and won trophies in state competitions since. You can have your little hakoah fantasy all you like but as long as they don't have a viable and credible bid on the table they are irrelevant to the discussion.

There is a need for the FFA to promptly provide delineable criteria for expansion clubs so that bidders are able to prepare the best bids possible resulting in the best possible outcome from the process. The limited information provided to date has been opaque and served to drive rumour and misinformation which hinders, rather than assists, the expansion process.

RBB - Your poor comprehensin of the written word is on show again. My comment was addressed to Fadida who had sent a comment mentioning SM's credentials in the NSL as proof of the club's suitabliity to be included in the HAL Fadida had used SM's performance in the NSL as part of his justification. I simply pointed out that there were clubs in the NSL that had better performance figures than SM (I could have added Marconi) and if he was using performance in that league as part of the criteria for entry ,Hakoah /Eastern suburbs would have to be considered. Now I think we all know that Hakoah /Eastern suburbs ceased to perform in the NSL in 1987 so yes, the statement (to Fadida) was made with the tongue squarely in the cheek. Fadida did not appear to mind my comment.Cheers jb.