Alright, before I get into really talking, there’s a few quick things that ought to be said. First off – yes, this is a response to yesterday’s piece by Geoff Parkes on AFL Women’s and the media, here on The Roar.
I’ve worked with Geoff a bit over the last year or so and would consider him a friend. Interpreting our disagreeing on this issue as being something of a feud, or a personal attack by myself on him, would be a mistake.
Still, this is an issue on which I feel strongly enough that I must speak my mind in a completely honest way.
Geoff has put forward the view, as I read it, that AFL Women’s should not get the depth of media coverage it currently does because it is not yet up to standard of the other elite sports that receive that coverage.
I’m not going to pretend for a second that semi-professional AFLW is played with the same degree of fitness or skills that the fully professional men’s competition is, and I’m yet to encounter a single person in the conversation who would.
However, to suggest that media coverage on sport should be based solely around the competition standard is a fanciful notion.
For better or worse, media coverage always has been and always will be dictated by popular interest. It’s why we hear about celebrity break-ups, it’s why we hear about Donald Trump, it’s why we hear about where the cheapest petrol is.
A good standard for evaluating an opinion about women’s sport is to say the same thing about men’s and imagine what kind of reaction you might get.
Reading Geoff’s piece, I mused to myself that I could very much write an article in the same line of thought about, for example, the A-League, and that I wouldn’t really have to change things around too much.
Why should the media report on AFL Women’s when the standard of other AFL competitions is much higher? By the same token, there’s little reason to give attention to the A-League when it is not even remotely in the same weight division as the Premier League or La Liga.
Geoff points out that scoring in AFL Women’s is pretty low, certainly compared to a full-length men’s AFL game. Yet it seems like just about every A-League game ends in the teams scoring two goals or less, and often none at all. Yawn.
Can you imagine the results if I was to write up that thinkpiece on the A-League and publish it at the top of the front page? It would attract the sort of vitriol and criticism that a take like that deserves, courtesy of the thousands of passionate A-League fans that frequent The Roar.
These matters do not revolve around elite sporting standards or high scoring or any objective measure of one game versus another. As Geoff himself says, sport is not always about rationality. Logic and reason are not what make sport great. Passion is, and it can be found at every level of every game.
The simple fact is that the interest in AFLW is what justifies its media coverage. We get to decide what we value, and enough people have decided that they value AFLW for it to have become a newsworthy subject. That’s really all there is to it.
Why has this happened? As Geoff intimates, for many of us it’s just because we love AFL, and especially having not had any of it on the telly since September, we are more than happy to get around any form of the game, even if it is a bit new and different.
I definitely have at least one foot in that camp. If you dressed up a bull in a North Melbourne outfit and let it loose in a china shop, I would buy a ticket and cheer until well past the point where I’ve lost my voice. I’m pretty well rusted-on to this whole thing.
However what is also responsible for much of the interest in AFLW is how much it means to the women of Australia to see this competition happening, and to be getting the level of coverage, investment and promotion that the AFL is for the most part consistently giving it.
This is something that a bloke like myself or Geoff simply cannot really hope to understand. It’s a perspective that can only be achieved through growing up female. As men we have to respect and accept that fact.
I’d say that it’s like seeing someone like yourself do something you’ve always been told you can’t do, but I’m a pretty privileged guy and have been lucky enough to never really have anyone tell me I can’t do things. However, that’s not typically the case for women who want to get involved in footy.
While I’m not in a position to relate to that aspect of AFL Women’s directly, I am lucky enough to have seen many women, from my friends, my family, and even strangers on the street and social media, who are absolutely glowing with passion for a game that I reckon is pretty alright, too.
Getting to see how happy it makes the women I love to have AFL Women’s not just exist but be as celebrated as it is, has made the competition personally very special to me.
That is the beauty of sport, it means so many different things to so many people, it arouses feelings in us that nothing else can. When a sport does that as well as AFLW has for so many of us, media attenion is absolutely justified.
If you don’t feel that way about AFLW, well, that’s a problem with an easy fix. Hey, I don’t feel that way about the vast majority of sports that aren’t AFL! You, like me, have the ability to vote with you remote – if you don’t want to watch the media coverage, you can just turn the TV off.
One last thing I’d like to address is Geoff’s statement near the end of his piece, suggesting that one of the reasons that some are unwilling to criticise AFLW is to avoid the accusations of sexism and bigotry that often come in response.
I’m not going to say that this backlash doesn’t sometimes happen, and that it isn’t on some occasions a disproportionate response. However, it is laughable to suggest that the crowd is only pretending to go along with AFLW. Believe it or not, the vast majority of us are just genuinely having a great time.
It may seem a bit out of place to say it here, after I have disagreed with Geoff’s point of view so fundamentally, but as someone who puts forward opinions – many of them unpopular – for a living, I do have a level of respect for those willing to do so, knowing that criticism is inevitable.
You don’t have to get involved in AFLW. You don’t have to keep the TV on when it comes up on the news. You don’t have to read my articles about it. I won’t be offended and to be honest, the rest of us will be so busy having fun that you really won’t be missed.
I find that a good rule-of-thumb in life is that if people are having fun, and they’re not hurting anybody, just let it be. As an AFL Women’s fan, that’s all I’m asking for – well, that and the Giants to get their first win on Friday night.
Craig
Guest
Debating women's sports is an emotive topic and one that doesn't seem to be held in a reasonable. Both arguments are reasonable here, Geoff is 100% correct. For the amount of coverage that the AFL W is getting, the standard is awful. But Josh's point is also valid, who cares? It's great that there is now a pathway for women's AFL players and great overall for womens sport, but it will quickly need to lift in standard. Other sports have all managed to overcome this barrier. Remember Venus/Serena Williams saying they could beat professional mens players? They both got flogged by a bloke outside the top 200 who had just played a round of golf and had half a dozen beers. Didn't the matildas lose to an u/16 boys team a year or two ago? Comparisons like this are not useful or helpful. The success of the AFL W will dwindle somewhat, but lets hope that with an increase in standard that the game and league continues to grow (and the media coverage will level out in time, and I assume it will return to an unfairly low level of coverage). This brief period of over-inflated media coverage is only temporary and we shouldn't begrudge the womens league that, its great. For any AFL fan, its a great thing overall and can only bring in more fans to the code as a whole.
northerner
Guest
Kurt +1 That comment says it all.
Kurt
Guest
Pies, if you really think me pointing out the fact that much of the criticism directed at AFLW comes from a particular demographic, who, having spent most of the last 500 years or so calling all the shots, suddenly don't have everything their own way and are reacting to that change with hostility, constitutes 'hurling insults' then I suggest that you might wish to retreat to a safe space where you are protected from people saying mean things to you. On the other hand you have challenged me to 'debate the issue', so will present my views as concisely as possible. The sport of Australian Rules Football is built on hyperbole and disproportionate levels of media & public attention, Every close match between two decent sides is a blockbuster. Every midfielder who racks up 30+ possessions is a super star. Every half forward who kicks 5 goals is a cross between Lockett, Carey and Dunstall. Every GF day is the greatest sporting spectacle in human history. Don't get me wrong, I love the sport and love the hype but now all of a sudden AFLW comes along and a bunch of blokes are suddenly terribly concerned about the level of media attention being in some way disproportionate to the skills on display. No problems claiming that the best AFL players are on par with the greatest athletes on earth, no worries about the fact we obsess endlessly over a sport played in one tiny corner of the planet that literally no one else gives a damn about, that's all fine. But the moment the women grab a bit of that hype, attract just a tiny fraction of the attention directed to the Men, then all of a sudden you decide that you have a problem with exaggeration and hyperbole. Yeah, right, not sexist at all.
bobburra
Guest
It's simple really, if one is not keen on the AFLW, then don't watch it, read about it or talk about. That's what I do, as I am at present not sold on it. I intend to wait and see what happens after a year or two and then asses it, I may get interested. At the moment no. It just does nothing for me.
northerner
Guest
Define what you mean by "the best of the best." A lot men's sport in this country is, to put it kindly, pretty average. Including about half of the AFL. If you're into football (soccer version) and looking for the best of the best, you're watching the Matildas, who are much higher ranked in FIFA's world standings than the Socceroos. But I'm going to bet that's not what you're watching at all.
northerner
Guest
Well, actually, it's a fact of your life. Not mine. You are trying to lay down some sort of rules for what everyone should or should not enjoy, and I don't happen to subscribe to your biff, bang and run philosophy. Bolt's a terrific showman, and of course a great runner, so everyone likes to watch him. Just like everyone was wrapt with Kathy Freeman. It's show biz as much as sport, and, as I say, women are as good as men at it. It's just taking the world a bit longer to figure it out.
northerner
Guest
@Hard Yards - oh gee. Women and girls aren't interested in a sport that specifically excludes women, and somehow that's sexist? Maybe, just maybe, the sport ought to have been more inclusive in the first place. Women are delighted to watch and play sports that have room for both genders; sports that don't, well, yeah, that's a problem. Kind of like, those 19th century clubs restricted to men only are kind of a problem and asking a bit much for women who can never become members to support them. Why on earth would any sensible female do that? She'd find a club or a sport that gave her the same rights as men. This is not rocket science. It's just basic civility.
Hard Yards
Guest
So I see Paul D, you place a higher value on you preferred code of football then you do with your battle against sexism. And there's one thing I've noticed. A lot of posters here say their wives/daughters never took an interest in watching AFL before the Women's competition, and freely admitting it. According to you and others here, wouldn't that be sexist? If so, why aren't you attacking them ? "Take a number and join the long line of people who are labouring under the belief I seemingly care what any of you think of me" I think the only person here your trying to convince of this is yourself.
Herman Hoth
Guest
To each their own Joshua.
Herman Hoth
Guest
True, when women play amongst themselves that is certainly correct. However when I pay money to watch sport I want to see the best product on offer, which is presented by the men's form of the game. Yes the things you mentioned previously, courage and determination, absolutely. Attributes that the girls exhibit in spades. Quality of play on the other hand...
Agent11
Guest
determination, courage, perseverance, teamwork, integrity are values which make an athlete or team successful but they are not what sells the sport to a potential audience. More people are going to watch and be interested in Usain Bolt running the 100m than the para olympic champion, it's just a fact of life.
Macca
Guest
"Take a number and join the long line of people who are labouring under the belief I seemingly care what any of you think of me" As I said enjoy your echo chamber. "either you think the women deserve to be able to play their own comp against other women and be left alone from value judgments made by blokes, or you don’t" See I think either you treat women equally or you don't - we don't expect AFL players to be "left alone from value judgments made by blokes" there is a whole industry, hours of TV and numerous column inches devoted to it - yet it seems we can only be positive about the AFLW and only certain people are allowed to have an opinion. As I have said numerous times I am a supporter of the AFLW, I just can acknowledge the skills are poor, the depth of talent isn't there and the coverage is disproportionate and would make plenty of females currently representing our country scratch their heads and don't think that makes me a misogynist just a realist.
Macca
Guest
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Macca
Guest
Northerner - Again - my argument isn't with people like you, it is with people who believe they are more worthy than others, people who feel free to label others sexist and mysoginists simply because they criticise the AFLW. These people are taking the smallest step possible and behaving as if they have made giant strides and anyone who isn't joining them should be shunned. "And I don’t see why AFL fans who don’t care for soccer should be expected to follow the W League to avoid being labelled as sexist. Maybe A League fans who don’t watch W League need to have a think about that, though." And I am not talking about the W league but our national side - so to follow the logic someone who happily sits down to watch the socceroo's but didn't know the Matilda played Wednesday night need to have a think about that, - which is exactly my point. The same with someone who enjoys a mens test match but won't watch the Southern Stars even in a T20. Also on netball I was fortunate to play country football where they are "Football Netball Clubs" - the netballers brought so much to the club and generally didn't even have a tent to change in let alone a shower - so I do have an appreciation for the sport but I really find it hard to believe that someone would prefer to watch the AFLW to the diamonds play - one is watching an elite sport and the other a country league and if just a few of these "supporters of womens sport" gave the super netball league a look on Gem I think they would see that.
Paul D
Roar Guru
Take a number and join the long line of people who are labouring under the belief I seemingly care what any of you think of me Your question makes no sense. As usual you’re splitting hairs using a microscopic razor because you can’t wrap your head around the big picture. At heart it’s an attitude Macca, either you think the women deserve to be able to play their own comp against other women and be left alone from value judgments made by blokes, or you don’t. If you’re able to sleep at night, bully for you and god bless. I have no interest in being the next victim of your relentless keyboard pounding debate style so that’s all I’ll say.
Macca
Guest
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northerner
Guest
"these people who are making out they are champions of womens sport and accusing others of being sexist because they criticise it aren’t supporting womens sport but simply watching football." And therein lies the crux of the matter. You think that a football fan who watches AFLW matches is not supporting women's sports, just watching football. And I think that, if he's just watching football which happens to be played by women, he is supporting women's sports in the most essential way possible. The whole point of women's rights movements has always been to be judged by what you do, not what gender you are. If men are watching the AFLW and are enjoying the competitive, physical and entertaining nature of the game, then that's a big step forward for women's sports. It is, in fact, something of a breakthrough. Neither I nor anyone else expects non AFL fans to follow AFLW just because women are playing it. And I don't see why AFL fans who don't care for soccer should be expected to follow the W League to avoid being labelled as sexist. Maybe A League fans who don't watch W League need to have a think about that, though. The point is, if you enjoy a particular sport, and you enjoy it whether it's men or women playing or competing at it, then you are supporting women's sports .
Maggie
Guest
My own viewing illustrates the fallacy of your calculation. I have watched every AFLW match to date. I do not subscribe to Foxtel so my viewing has been on FTA TV where available and otherwise by streaming from the AFL app. So I watched two matches on TV in the first round and would be counted twice in your Round 1 figures, but I have only been able to watch on TV and be counted in the ratings figures once for each of Rounds 2, 3 and 4. So although I have watched every match, according to the figures you are using my viewing has dropped by 50% since Round 1. The ratings for Round 1, and particularly the inaugural match of Carlton v Collingwood, were an outlier which nobody should have sensibly expected to be maintained. But I agree with Josh that the numbers are doing well, and as reported by Samantha Lane have exceeded expectations.
Macca
Guest
Enjoy your echo chamber then PaulD. Are you still a mysoginist if you like AFL but don't watch AFLW and point it out?
Macca
Guest
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