Is it really 25 playing 22?

The whole "second to the ball thing" is actually a load of crap when you actually look at the stats

I think the dogs have been the better team in both matches, but have also been up 50 odd to 20 odd with more than a few bad decisions going their way. Both these things can be true at once.

WE are getting to the NRL stage of refs evening games up. Disastrous. Could the stricter interpretation of the defender clinging on be linked to trying to open the game up that is teams need to be more defensive and less around the ball. The fact that they have tightened up the holding the ball rule and "throws" would count against this though it could be argued that clearing the ball quickly and cleanly rather than trying to break thru would help to stop the congestion around the middle of the ground.

I think we were referring to the umpiring.

What annoys me most is in games like the Geelong v. North where at one point the free kick count was 22-5 (North's favor). The umpires then always seem to full one out of thin air to 'even it up'. The final count ended up 25-20 (North's favor). If the umpires were consistent the whole game I'd be okay with the occasional bad calls but they aren't even close. They change interpretations mid-game with no warning. Geelong was lazy and sloppy and deserved to be behind. No way Geelong ever cleaned up their game enough to go on a 3-15 run. If something is a free (or isn't) keep it that way the whole game, regardless of what the count is. Sometimes one side is just sloppier than the other and deserves to be behind in the count.

Great post Olivia. Some decisions were plainly wrong, but at the end of the day there will never be perfect decisions. The true test is the result of the decision. The 50 metre penalty is crazy, as is the rushed behind penalty. Fix the rules and don't blame the umps. They are not biased, at least consciously. There is no conspiracy. Some playing styles are out of favour and will be penalised, which is a shame. You used to see different game styles being played in the same game, depending on different team strengths. The Bulldogs are the flavour of the month with an exciting, fast, free-flowing and pressure/ skill based game style. Ergo they will continue to get the frees, as Hawthorn still do. The Swans congested style is out of favour. They will continue to lose the free kick count against certain teams. Pumping Dougie is right - it is up to the coaches to combat that and come up with strategies and players/ skills/ etc to do that. The Swans and Longmire are talented and adaptive enough to do it. But at the moment the Doggies are clearly better than the Swans. After saying all that they were really crucified on Friday and in the GF weren't they?

I don't think Swans fans are being sooks (well, some are on this page), or claiming conspiracies (OK, I accept that some are), but questioning the competence of the umpires. The frees kicks on Grand Final day were 20-8 in the Bulldogs favour, but looking at the game, I didn't think there were any that shouldn't be paid and was surprised when I saw the lop-sided free kick count – except for those three instances where Swans players has their legs taken out, and no free kick. Free kick for this paid all season, except on these three occasions. The Kieran Jack decision was the worst – had his legs taken out, but free kick paid to the Bulldogs, and the umpire was whistle happy and gave a 50-metre penalty because Smith kicked the ball a split second after the whistle. So, two wrong/poor decisions in the one, Bulldogs get a goal. That's what ruins the game – but I'm not sure what the umpires can do. Is is a question of competence, inherent bias, inexperience, pressure? Who knows. But I do know that that was one seriously bad decision. Friday night? The deliberate out of bounds is moot, probably shouldn't have been paid, but the Aliir "hold" on Boyd definitely shouldn't have been paid. Look at the free kick to Puopolo on Saturday. What a seriously bad mistake. Not sure what that was. Everyone has their opinion, and mine is that some umpires are not up to scratch. I guess three or four dud decisions on a weekend of nine matches is not too bad, but the umpires need to improve.

He has multiple tacklers, but they don't bring him down and he manages to get the ball away. You can actually possess the ball as long as you like if you're not moving, but the tacklers have to catch a player with the ball, and bring them down. Read the rule book mate.

@Knoxy, no the free kick counts don't have to be even, but look at the last two games between Syd and WB. Two very close hard fought games, and yet Bulldogs had nearly double the number of free kicks. That's bound to raise questions isn't it? Surely there's a point where the free kick count becomes ridiculous.

That's just being hurtful Dougie.

As for determining as to where it is played, other sports seem to manage it.

The grand final doesn't haven't have to be played in a 100,000 seat stadium, but your right about the revenue being an issue to the money hungry AFL.

Good luck with Carlton this year. ?

"Wood for the trees" very philosophical of you Dougie. Unfortunately as a Carlton supporter I got to see Cameron Wood on a weekly basis. I think that the conspiracy theory is in the myth basket, but says plenty about the current view of many supporters of the AFL's integrity that the theories even out there. As for the umpiring on the day, put the reasons aside, the Bulldogs were advantaged by the calls and the non calls in that game. How much of an advantage is debatable, but the umpiring advantage was there for all to see. It's no myth, I watched it (beer free) and many other neutral (not all) agree. I get as a Bulldogs supporter you probably don't see it or want to admit it, but even your coach said you got away with a bit. The Bulldogs got a good go from the umpires. The Harmes ball was in right?

True, but I think saints supporters have every right to feel aggrieved.

I have no issue with Goodsey. No whinge there. No whinge about Mitchell either...just direct criticism. As for Stevic...no whinge...just mockery.

You're just perpetuating a myth Steve. The Swans haven't been hard done by. They just give away too many frees. Comments here obviously won't change your mind, but it's pretty obvious you can't see the wood through the trees. A good coach and leader would acknowledge this with sincerity and look to correct their performance, but Longmire wants to blame someone other than himself. His attitude gives supporters license to adopt a victims approach instead of being objective. The umps only got a few wrong this week and the grand final, but you want to point to free kick counts as if that is evidence of umpiring mistakes, instead of seeing it is evidence of team mistakes. It's your players and coach, not the umps, who are responsible for falling short.

Unbelievable Don..you are the king of whinging on this site. Sam Mitchell, Adam Goodes, Matt Stevic, Hawthorn, Sydney Swans...you are seriously delusional mate. I actually feel sad for you, i hope you get better.

I am a neutral suporter..i follow Melbourne..but i was frustrated watching both the Grand Final and the game the other night. I thought the Bulldogs definitely got a leg up in both games. They throw the ball any chance they get, and get away with it...its becoming a joke. They are def favoured by the umpires!!

You know when somebody is in there early teens on this site. They use the word cry a lot...