All Black skipper Kieran Read has undergone surgery on a fractured thumb and will be pushing it to be fit for the British and Irish Lions series in June.
Read left the field for the Crusaders against the Cheetahs at Bloemfontein with time running out for the 10-match tour with three Tests – the first at Eden Park on June 24, the second at Wellington on July 1, and back to Eden Park on July 8.
If Read does play the full series, he’ll earn his 100th cap – a fitting milestone for a super footballer.
But for a combined side with the best from England, Ireland, Scotland, and Wales, the Lions have a poor record since they first toured in 1888.
They have played 36 series, but won only 15, lost 20, and drawn one in South Africa.
The Lions are far worse in New Zealand, where they have won only one series in 11, and that was in 1971.
Those Lions were led by John Dawes and boasted many household rugby names with JPR Williams, Gerard Davies, Mike Gibson, Gareth Edwards, Barry John, Willie John McBride, Derek Quinnell, and Mervyn Davies.
The All Blacks were led by Colin Meads and included Ian Kirkpatrick, Tane Norton, Alex Whyllie, Peter Whiting, Sid Going, Bryan Williams, Fergie McCormack, and Laurie Mains.
The Lions won 2-1, with a drawn Test.
In those 11 tours in New Zealand, the Lions have played 38 internationals, winning only six, losing 28, with three draws.
The points for and against tell the story – 345 for, but 634 against.
And they will come up against a crash-hot All Black side that has lost only four internationals in 68 on the Steve Hansen watch, drawing two.
Win percentage 91.89.
The men in black are so far and away the best team rugby team on the planet over a long period, winning all the trophies possible.
Only England under Eddie Jones are close, but they have yet to face the All Blacks, that will be more awaited than the Lions.
Under Jones, England’s won 17 of their 18 internationals for a win percentage of 94.44.
But to pit the Six Nations, minus Italy, with the Rugby Championship makes interesting reading, with all teams on their last 68 internationals.
The All Blacks’ 68 are all on the Hansen watch:
68 games – 62 wins – four losses – two draws – 91.18 per cent.
England under Jones (18-17), Stuart Lancaster (46-28), and the last four of Martin Johnson’s 38 (3-1).
68 – 48 – 19 – 1 – 70.58 per cent.
Boks under Allister Coetzee (12-4), Heyneke Meyer (48-32), and the last eight of Peter de Villiers 48.
68 – 41 – 25 – 2 – 60.29 per cent.
Ireland under Joe Schmidt (46-31), and Declan Kidney’s last 42 of 53.
68 – 38 – 26 – 3 – 57.35 per cent.
Wallabies under Michael Cheika (31-17), Ewen McKenzie (22-11), and the last 15 of Robbie Deans’ 74 (8-6-1)
68 – 36 – 30 – 2 – 52.94 per cent.
Wales under the last 68 of Warren Gatland’s 115.
68 – 34 – 33 – 1 – 50 per cent.
France under Guy Noves (15-7), Philippe Saint-Andre (45-20), and the last eight of Marc Lievremont’s 45 (5-3)
68 – 32 – 34 – 2 – 47.06 per cent.
Scotland under Vern Cotter (36-19), Scott Johnson )16-5), and the last 16 of Andy Robinson’s 36 (6-10).
68 – 30 – 38 – 0 – 44.12 per cent.
All Blacks and daylight on those figures. The Lions will struggle.
Connor33
Guest
Well played, Dave. Sad soul.
Dave
Guest
Perhaps you can make up the answers as you make a plea to leave the Psych ward?
Connor33
Guest
Boys - the article was about the current NZ captain. A few tangents here. The question you need to ask is: what was Hansen's record when he was in charge of Wales? (i.e., when had to actually coach). Mind you, Hansen is also the only coach in NZ history to lose to the Irish--and that could have happened twice ast year but for a forward pass. And now for a complete tangent: how is that criminal trial vis-a-vis Hansen's head of security? To be honest, I've not heard a thing, so perhaps there was a plea bargain on the steps of the courthouse.
cuw
Guest
http://www.planetrugby.com/news/concussion-cloud-now-over-coles/
dontcallmeshirley
Guest
I would see the pecking order as: Sapoaga Moanga Damian McKenzie Beaver Banks/ Otere Black/Jordie B Carter out of retirement My blood pressure could not withstand Beaver going in!
Nick
Guest
Mo'unga must be a consideration, surely.
lassitude
Guest
Mo'unga is coming along very nicely and will be an All Black at some stage IMO. He seems to have everything going for him - i.e. a complete game that even Cruden or Barrett or McKenzie don't. Although I think Sopoanga does - well he did. He's quite a solid unit as well - so his defence is a lot more assertive than the other 10s apart from Sopoanga.
Derm
Roar Guru
Spiro's stats on NZ matches won under Hansen got me thinking about records of the other teams under their current coaches, but some were too recent, so then I wondered how those other teams had performed over a period of time. So I looked at from 1 Jan 2009 - roughly 100 odd tests - some more, some less. Total games and wins - and win percentage. I didn't include draw figures. 1 Jan 2009 to present Eng - 98-65 - 67% SA - 95-57 - 61% Irl - 96-56 - 60% Aus - 113-62 - 56% Fra 95-49 - 52% Wal 106-53 - 50% Arg - 95-42 - 45% 1 Jan 2011 to present Eng - 77-55 - 72% SA - 69-41 - 61% IRL- 75-42 - 58% Aus - 84-47 - 57% Wal - 83-44 - 54% Fra - 74-36 - 50% Arg - 80-34 - 43% 1 Jan 2013 to present Eng - 52-39 - 75% Irl - 51-32 - 65% SA - 48-29 - 60% Wal - 53-29 - 56% Aus - 56-29 - 53% Fra - 50-21 - 43% Arg - 57-23 - 40% 1 Jan 2015 to present Eng 30-25 - 83% Irl 31-19 - 63% Aus - 27-16 - 59% Wal 31-17 - 56.5% Fra 28-14 - 50% Arg - 28-13 - 46% SA - 23-10 - 43%
richard
Guest
davSA,I would take issue with your comment that the 'Lions have never sent a bad side to tour." The 1966,1983 and 2005 teams that were beaten 4-0,4-0 and 3-0 respectively were all poor sides.And that is just to NZ. That is not to say they haven't produced some excellent ones - 1955/1974 to SA,and 1959/1971 to NZ are the greatest teams.Frankly,I don't rate any of the modern sides ,but this side coming to NZ has the potential,if the experts are to be believed.
richard
Guest
Mate,you could say the same about all referees in that era.You think the AB's weren't on the recieving end when they toured? Graeme Henry criticising Fleury doesn't change that.
Faith
Guest
I think that the games leading up to the AB Tests are way too many. They should have halved them. We've seen how intense and physical the NZ sides have been in SR. So, think about playing Blues, Saders ( both with their ABs depending on workload), Maori and the Chiefs within 2 weeks with 2nd tier players with a point to prove. These are not friendly games and even if the Lions win these will be very physical. Throw in the Canes between AB Tests (a pack that has been going well without ABs) and it's going to be relentless. Remember how Gatland had to bring in frontline players during the Chiefs vs Wales game to avoid embarrassment and Jamie Roberts got injured. Basically if any of the key Lions combos (backrows, centres)are interrupted that would impact the series. That is the downside. The upside is that by Eden Park playing the ABs the Lions will have a very good idea of the first team after those first 4 games and if this is done well they will be battle-hardened. Not sure though how impactful being at the end of a long season they will be ... all we ask for is a competitive series ... and Lions must win the first one if that is to be the case. Losing either Read or Kaino in the first game just for sheer experience will be a biggie ... if they are no major AB injuries after this I think the ABs are in with a very good shot for 3-0
Faith
Guest
Two weeks they say for Sopoaga ...
DavSA
Guest
If you maybe remember an SA player Brent Russell. Very much in the mould of Mckenzie. Played centre , wing and fullbackk for the Boks as well as flyhalf at provincial level ......... Game breaker for sure but at scrumhalf he couldnt cut it
Nicholas Bishop
Expert
Tend to agree on nearly all points Dav... The Lions have put out some pretty decent sides - especially those that were based on the golden generation of Welsh players back in the 1970's. However, outside of 1971 and 1974 I cannot think of any Lions side which was better prepared than their opponents - the first because they had the outstanding coach (and coaching organiser) of his generation in Carwyn James, the second because the core of that side was still intact, but with a better and more experienced set of forwards...
Nicholas Bishop
Expert
And how many times have the Lions scored more tries than the AB’s(totally honest question I could look it up but your a numbers guy I thought you might know. No idea I'm afraid J - this is just a particularly famous occasion which is common knowledge :)
Nicholas Bishop
Expert
Ask Graham Henry, he'll tell you all about Mr.Fleury!
Jemainok
Guest
Thanks Cuw. I haven't had a chance to read those articles before.
davSA
Guest
I have been watching Rugby for over 50 years now Nicholas . The 1974 Lions remains the best I have ever seen . Let me be fair though and separate amateur and pro era's . They were reffed in every single match by SA refs who were so blatantly one sided towards the Boks it bordered on embarrassment. They had a schedule that would cause apoplexy in todays world . They played to full stadiums with virtually every supporter baying for blood . I mean real blood here. They did not only prevail but changed the way the game was played everywhere in the world. I was at the second test in Pretoria where they outscored the Boks by 5 tries to nil . Remember tries were only 3 points . It would have been 50 plus points today. They finished an entire tour of SA playing all ...unbeaten. Lets now not forget the 1971 tour to NZ where they beat the All Blacks under similar conditions. In the modern era the 2009 Lions have to be disappointed with the outcome. They played a very , very good bok side that were the current World Champions , dominating territory and possession in every single game. IMO only Heinrich Brussouw stood between the Boks and defeat. He was sensational that series. Based on this I'm going to disagree with Sheeks post ... The Lions may have put out teams that weren't the very best in the World but never have they sent out a bad side to tour.
Jemainok
Guest
Hey Taylorman and Cuw have a great story about Zinzan. When I was a 12 year old young man in the summer I was playing cricket for SPC. Our team was due to play Auckland Grammer at the Domain. We all get there at 8am rearing to rip in at the 8:30 start, 8:30 arrives and still no Auckland Grammer. As you can understand this left us all disapointed, as we walked off dejected out yells someone. "hey boys do you want a game of cricket." We all look over and there standing with a big smile in his face is Zinzan Brooke his brother Robyn, Junior Tonu'u, Adrian Cashmore and anothe half the '94' Auckland NPC team. Those guys happily gave time out of there training to play a game of cricket with us youngsters. However we put in the stumps bowled two balls, and one of our teaches comes up to us and says. "their waiting for you at Grammer no1". So once again we were dejected we were going to have a full game of cricket against essentially the AB's at that time, and now we had to face Auckland Grammer 1B. So Zinzan Brooke seeing our disappointment calls us all in before we leave, and gives us an inspirational speech. I have no idea what he said in it but I do remember him ending with" play hard play fair". Auckland Grammer had no chance that day thanks to Zinzan Brooke and the NPC team. Hey the moral of this story is when you are up against your old foe its always good to get those words of wisdom from the number 8.
taylorman
Roar Guru
He would know, was a pretty good mongrel himself.