A few months ago I dared to suggest that the Lions may win the series against the All Blacks in New Zealand.
The article was widely ridiculed, not just by Kiwis but many in Britain and Ireland.
Lions supporters, as they often are, were strongly critical of selections. The Scots, in particular, considered themselves especially hard done by and many thought that the Welsh contingent weakened the squad.
New Zealanders broadly fell into two camps.
First, there were those who recognised the talent in the Lions’ squad but dismissed the possibility of it jelling due to lack of preparation. This was fair enough, after all, it is always an issue for these tours.
But there were also those who saw the Lions as ‘just another Northern Hemisphere rugby side’. Plagued by slow play and lack of skill, they stood little chance of getting close to the All Blacks.
Owen Farrell was ‘just a kicking machine’. The Lions forwards were considered stodgy and, well, fat.
There is no denying that this was the perception pre-tour. Even during the tour, particularly after the defeat to the Blues, many Kiwis in this very forum were declaring the Lions second rate and out of their depth.
The fact the Lions XV included a spine of Saracens who had won back-to-back European titles seemed to be totally downplayed. After all, that’s just some competition in Europe.
This attitude was astonishing to me. That spine of Mako Vunipola, Jamie George, Maro Itoje and Owen Farrell had swept all before them in Europe including a Toulon side led by Ma’a Nonu, Matt Giteau, Bryan Habana and Juan Smith.
When you also consider that Farrell had been pivotal in beating the All Blacks with England in 2012, the Lions’ series win in Australia and two straight Six Nations in 2015 and 2016, and the casual writing off of the Lions pre-tour made even less sense.
(AAP IMAGE/Adam Binns)
All of that is quite before the fact that the Irish contingent had some considerable confidence going into the Test series courtesy of their win, albeit against a weakened All Blacks in Chicago.
Did the All Blacks underestimate the Lions?
It is hard to seriously argue that Steve Hansen and his side would have consciously fallen into that trap. But when all the commentary coming from the public and media was downright dismissive of the Lions’ chances, could that truly be blocked out?
There will always be arguments about penalties, yellow cards and red cards.
Was Romain Poite influenced unduly by Sam Warburton? Should the All Blacks have been awarded penalties earlier in the game at all? Was Sonny Bill really deserving of a red card or would a yellow have sufficed?
All of these questions will stoke pub debates and dinner table dialogue for decades to come. But the fact remains that the Lions, coached by ‘the clown’ and assembled with no preparation time, from a world where rugby is played in slow motion, were never meant to get even close.
They drew the series.
Going forward, the Southern Hemisphere rugby public needs to wake up to the fact that there is somewhat of a revolution going on in European rugby.
More elite level players from New Zealand and particularly South Africa are heading north to club rugby, not just to retire but in the prime of their careers. This is having an undoubted effect on playing style and skill levels.
Huge financial resources, particularly in England, are being thrown at the World Cup in 2019 and beyond. These resources dwarf anything available in New Zealand, Australia or South Africa.
During the Six Nations, Wales, Ireland and Scotland were all coached by Kiwis. England was coached by Eddie Jones.
Don’t for one second think that Eddie wasn’t quietly thrilled to see the spine of the English side exposed to the furnace of three Tests against the All Blacks in New Zealand.
Jeffrey
Guest
They drew the series lol...drew!!!!
Coconut
Guest
The match stats in the last game tell the real story.. The ABs contrived to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. But for one or two less handling errors with the try line open, or indeed one sitter of a penalty, we would not even being having this conversation. Anyway it is what it is, a drawn series - however I'm not reading too much into it. I am worried a little bit about the ability of the refs to do more than one job at a time, and hence I think many sides are going to be following the blueprint of the Lions in terms of having a rushing defense to shut down any attack, and the off-side thing is going to get difficult to police especially if the ref is simply not able to keep an eye on it. We'll see what happens come Rugby Championship time..
Slat
Guest
If we are going to have the best of the north touring, then one should expect the worlds best refs should officiate. The AB's were hard done by with some strange interpretations of the laws. The AB had a very good scrum the lions loose forward play was equal to the AB's the blacks should of played their natural game as they did in the first test. That's what they do best, they are not good at fiddling around the edges. The tour was good for rugby let the north have the bragging rights in 2017 tomorrow is another day.
Jock Cornet
Guest
It would be great if Ireland became super strong as well, good luck to ya, I just don't see any weaknesses in the England team, but I do love the Ireland pack.
Perthstayer
Roar Rookie
A one man advantage for 40 minutes. And BIL scored a try when it was 14 on 14. (So many facts are left out to suit agendas in this thread I just couldn't take anymore)
Misha
Guest
They drew the series. But lost all the stats. Really the ABs hugely underperformed with a little help from the French Refs...I think the only stats the Lions won was goal kicking even with a one-man advatange in one of the 3 tests..
adastra32
Guest
The kid Curry also has a twin who plays alongside him at Sale but who was injured for the Arg tour - both highly rated. It's all looking very promising...
Henry honey balls
Guest
The average of the Ireland squad is 25, the average age of the England is 24. I dont see much difference really. The average age of the current NZ squad is 26. Are they too old?
Jeffrey
Guest
Fair enough. You obviously know the English u20s setup pretty well. I was just going of what the commentators had said and also what a lot of the guys on PR were saying. I agree with you that England will be as serious threat to the ABs over the next ten years. Exciting times.
Colin N
Guest
'Only' six. I like that one. 14 players missing, most of those would be in the 23. The first XV would have looked something like this is everyone was available: 1. Adams-Hale, 2. Mullis, 3. Knight/Street, 4. Isiekwe, 5. Nay/Caulfield, 6. B. Curry, 7. T. Curry, 8. Mercer, 9. Maunder, 10. Malins, 11. Aspland-Robinson/Ibitoye. 12. Butler/Brophy-Clews. 13. Morris, 14. Cokanasiga, 15. Shillcock. So that's seven certainties who were out. Aspland-Robinson was first choice before the tournament but Ibitoye was excellent throughout in his absence while Brophy-Clews, I'm assuming, would have been preferred for his experience. So if those selections are made then you're looking nine, maybe 10 if you count Street (A guy still eligible for U18 but highly-rated) over Knight. It's also about who was missing. Without Morris (or replacement Wright) and Cokanasiga, they lacked size in the backline and without Isiekwe they lacked their lineout leader (the set-piece was an absolute shambles against South Africa).
Jock Cornet
Guest
I hope Ireland are strong but I think they are too old. They are weak in sections. Some world class greats such as Conor and Obrien but overall too old
Jeffrey
Guest
I would like to know who these 14 players are. Most are of the opinion that only 6 first choice players were missing.
Jeffrey
Guest
Agreed. The ABs under performed and the injuries had a big part to play towards that. The ABs were missing four world class players and Liam Squire who is an excellent impact player. Not having Smith Crotty, Williams and Coles will leave a huge hole in any team. In addition to that, losing SBW in Wellington and only playing with 14 men should not be underestimated, so I really don't think the Lions were any better than what we expected them to be. Perhaps their defensive structures were better than expected but overall, I thought they were good without being outstanding.
Henry honey balls
Guest
I also referenced the ABs discipline issues as a weakness. Interesting that it turned out that the Irish media were right as the ABs red card probably lost them the series.
Henry honey balls
Guest
Id say Farrell was one of the weakest Lions backs over the three tests. He missed the most tackles of all Lions, gave up the most yards in defence and gained very few in attack and made some fairly basic errors. Sexton by contrast made more yards from the 10 position and only missed 1 tackle in three tests as opposed to Farrell's 8 missed tackles. Farrell does deserve credit for making some important kicks even if his over kicking percentages were below his best. He wasn't great over all though.
Henry honey balls
Guest
My logic for thinking that the ABs were in for a shock was because the rugby championship was very weak in 2016 and made the ABs look better than they were. The ABs tour to the NH provided infinitely closer tests including a loss and this to me suggested that the Lions had the goods to do the job particularly as NZ lost the forward battle twice against Ireland. These claims or "facts" were rubbished by you Taylorman. Short memory.
Henry honey balls
Guest
England and the ABs cant really claim to be miles ahead of Ireland if they both lose to them can they?
Colin N
Guest
Good point Jacko, forgot about the loss of Falcon. "Whatever.England have won tournaments in 2013,14 and 16.So,they have dominated in recent times.Yet,as soon as they get beaten,there is a ready made excuse." It's not an excuse, it's just a fact; take it or leave it. That you can't accept it and get offended by someone providing context is your problem.
Jock Cornet
Guest
Agree, can't wait till they meet. Also Itoje will get better and better . Eddie will know how to exploit the abs weaknesses.
Wobbliesarewoeful
Guest
You're a light weight ... you're analysis childlike and your understanding of the game at a very low level