The Amish might not be the most obvious people you would think of when it comes to stadium construction but maybe they should be.
As we get closer to having a second division in Australia, the demand for good quality stadiums for smaller clubs will increase. But if the designs proposed are too expensive they might struggle to get funding.
The Wanderers’ new 30,000 capacity stadium in Parramatta will cost $300 million, or $10,000 per seat. While in Perth their new oval stadium for AFL and cricket will cost a whopping $17,000 per seat.
These costs are far too high for small clubs and their proposals won’t get the go ahead if they are simply too expensive.
One solution to reducing costs is to get the fans to build the stadium themselves. Oddly enough this has happened before in Berlin.
Back in 2008, German club Union Berlin wanted to bring their home ground, the Stadion An der Alten Försterei, or ‘Stadium By The Old Forester’s House’, up to date.
Around 2500 supporters put in 140,000 work hours voluntarily to get it built. Not only that but they donated blood to raise money to pay off the club’s debts. They built the stadium themselves, and literally bled for their club.
The stadium has a capacity of 22,000 with only 3,600 seats. The rest is all terracing.
Why can’t we do the same here?
If ambitious clubs want to build stadiums so they can have the chance to be promoted to the A-League they can ask the fans to volunteer and help build the stadium themselves.
Not only will this save money but the joint experience of those who take part will help to bind the fans together as a community, like a good old Amish barn raising.
The next question that needs to be asked is what sort of stadiums would be appropriate in Australia?
While a capacity of 22,000 fans might be suitable for Union Berlin this might be excessive for an Australian second division club. It might even be too much for an A-League club when the average attendance is only around 12,000 across the league.
The best guide might come from the original proposal for an Australian Premier League, which recommended that stadiums should have a capacity of 10-15,000 to create a good atmosphere. But this might also be too much for a second division club. They may be better off with between 5-8000 seats. Something simple like Yeovil Town’s stadium, Huish Park.
To overcome this issue the stadium could be designed to expand outwards if the team is promoted. Or contract inwards if it is relegated. This would allow the stadium to be kept at the optimal size depending on which league the club is in.
Again, like building it in the first place, the fans can do this themselves in the off-season. The cavity below the stands could be used as storage space.
Another option might be to build a permanent main grandstand along one of the sidelines and use temporary stands around the others in a similar layout to Hindmarsh. Wellington Phoenix did something like this at Hutt Recreation Ground.
But this doesn’t mean you can’t use the same methods with larger stadiums. Adelaide United could use a stadium with 30,000 seats but the South Australian government is hesitant about putting up the cash. If Adelaide United fans build it themselves the cost can be kept much lower. Would they rather go to Norwood Oval instead?
How about Sydney FC and Brisbane Roar? Wouldn’t their fans prefer to have smaller stadiums? They can build new ones themselves if they want.
Temporary stadiums with around 30,000 seats have been built before and would be ideal if they were used permanently.
In 2010, the Vancouver Whitecaps built a 27,000-seat temporary stadium, which took only 111 days to construct for just $14.5 million. This led some commentators to suggest that temporary stadiums should be used on a permanent basis for other MLS teams whose football-specific stadiums were averaging $200 million.
I guess that temporary is the wrong word in this context. Maybe ‘kit stadium’ would be more accurate. The price of $14.5 million comes to just 2.9 per cent of the cost of the club’s new permanent BC Place Stadium.
In terms of amenities and features, the temporary stadium was on par with most permanent stadiums featuring covered seating, broadcast booths, luxury suites, scoreboards, enormous video screens, concession stands, restrooms, retail space and locker rooms.
Another temporary stadium is Rugby League Park in Christchurch which has 18,600 seats and which was constructed in under 100 days in 2011 for just $30 million.
Closer to home the 48,500-seat QSAC is still in use in Brisbane, showing that even large designs are possible without breaking the bank.
Similar construction methods can be scaled for different needs on a case by case basis.
But whether it’s a large or small stadium the use of volunteer fan labour might be a way to keep costs down and it’s something that we should think about here in Australia.
As for building big expensive stadiums like ANZ or Lang Park, that’s just horse and buggy thinking.
Nick Symonds
Guest
NEWS - Australian Financial Review. According to AFR the Southern Expansion bid are now pledging to build a $300 million football specific stadium, but no specifics. Interesting: http://www.afr.com/real-estate/hk-firm-jiayuan-pledges-300m-for-aleague-stadium-20170714-gxb6e8
Grobbelaar
Roar Guru
The author's exact words are: "If ambitious clubs want to build stadiums so they can have the chance to be promoted to the A-League they can ask the fans to volunteer and help build the stadium themselves. " So I think Marcel has read the article. And I'd like to add my support for what he is saying, it's a silly idea, and to be honest, I thought the author was just writing another one of his humorous pieces. There's a big difference between using your sponsors, who happen to be in the building industry to enable you to add a grandstand to a surburban ground, and building a whole stadium using the labour donated by thousands of fans. AS for how things may have been built in the past, yes, 50 or 60 years ago community groups got together to build churches, or church halls, or even the foundations of a school, not sure if such examples are applicable in the modern age in relation to stadiums.
Nick Symonds
Guest
NEWS - NPL clubs meet with aim to push for national second division: https://theworldgame.sbs.com.au/article/2017/07/16/npl-clubs-meet-aim-push-national-second-division
Nemesis
Guest
@marcel Do you understand what this article is about? It's not about constructing another AAMI Park. It's about constructing grandstand like the members of Melbourne Knights did at Somers Street. Grandstands have been erected, churches & schools have been constructed in Melbourne by the sweat of parents & club members. No one suggests these buildings will win awards for design. This is not fantasy. It has happened & it still happens. If you are in the construction industry, I'm sure you don't like the fact work like this is being done.
marcel
Guest
@NemFuss...I've been running a very successful business, in the construction industry, for over 30 yrs. I have received awards for my work both locally and internationally....some of these in the field of stadium design. The fact that you consider that a few P+C members doing a bit of casual maintenance to be in anyway analogous to the construction of a stadium...is highly amusing to those of us that actually have expertise in this subject....again...educate yourself ...or stop embarrassing yourself.
rop
Guest
As it has been said in the above video: For a great atmosphere you need mainly stands, not seats. Union Berlin has 80% stands. Their fans also have a big say in how the club is run. On the other hand the Australian culture is still obsessed with hierarchy in all walks of life and people in "high" positions assume they have a right to dictate instead of negotiate, communicate and compromise.
Nemesis
Guest
@marcel Maybe get a job & then enter discussions about commerce? There are currently schools, clubs in Melbourne that use labour from parents & members for construction & maintenance. Ask your parents about it.
marcel
Guest
You obviously don't understand how the construction industry works. Why don't you go back to the Fin Review and stop embarrassing yourself.
jeff dustby
Guest
safety laws and training will stop people getting involved. Trade unions will not allow it
Ken Spacey
Guest
At the risk of generalising, there are a lot of people involved in Oz football over the years who have strong links to the building, construction and development industries. If each NPL club with their local HAL owner (as appicable) formed a co-operative they might find they had the resources to do a lot of improvements for their own clubs. AUFC have had major home builder Gordon Pickard followed by Nick Bianco (supplies,equipment, plant hire) and the Lowy family are in the development game. The FFA shows us their are some great boutique grounds that just need a step up in faciliities and capaciy. I for one think the Blue Eagles ground at Marden is a potential cracker with a warm up pitch, existing car parking and the O-Bahn guided bus way just needing a stop and a footbridge across the Torrens. But you all know the grounds and the needs. The football family has the capacity to look after its own needs with some govt. help and why stop there. Think of the authentic culinary skills and restaurant experience that would produce food that you can't even get in the countries these club founders came from. If I'm going to pay a fortune for a slice of pizza and , clog my arteries I might as well enjoy it and know my money will buy a new football for some kids as opposed to aiding those blood sucking tyrants that run Coopers or your local venues.
j,binnie
Guest
Waz -Yes I am aware of the leasing arrangements at PP but these arrangement are comparatively recent, for the then QSF were granted the lease back in 1966 and one can only imagine it was the financial hardship suffered by that organisation that saw YMCA welcomed as a new lessor with Football being granted a sub lease over the greater part of the available land. To the best of my knowledge this arrangement appears to be perfectly satisfactory. Re the complaints from residents ,the amount of re-development going on in the area does not appear to be attracting much complaint so don\'t know just how serious this oft cited argument is? Standing on PP it is hard to imagine great numbers of residents on the hillside for on the other 3 sides of the ground there appears to be only industrial development. Makes on wonder. Cheers jb.
j,binnie
Guest
marcel - Don't know if you are aware of the fact but when "summer soccer" was first envisaged it was recommended that the games ,especially in Brisbane, be played in early evening (6 to7 pm start) and played under floodlights so if this had been adhered to by the then powers that be, the sun would not be a problem for either goalkeeper. Actually heat was not envisaged as a problem for Brisbane ,the greatest threat being from thunderstorms and heavy rain at that time of year.. Actually why that part of the original suggestion was ignored was the fact that not many clubs playing in the then NSL had floodlights at their grounds, under which an official game could be played. So, under the voting system at head office,that part of the suggestion was shelved, no money being the reason. Cheers jb.
Nemesis
Guest
You obviously don't understand the concept of "equity"? You aren't the target audience for this discussion. Go back to discussing coward punches, smoking ice & whatever else they do in your sport.
Nick Symonds
Guest
Just thought I'd post this link to a story about similar themes: http://www.smh.com.au/sport/soccer/why-aleague-needs-a-view-from-the-cheap-seats-20161215-gtc5a8.html Here are the first two paragraphs: "When is someone who counts going to ask the only question which really counts when it comes to building stadiums in Australia. Why do they cost so much? I'd say it's more than a question in fact. I'd say it's a scandal. Maybe a royal commission might be needed to get to the bottom of the most expensive construction costs in world sport. Let's just say there's a smell around the process than gets more pungent by the day." Whether or not there's a royal commission there should at least be a senate inquiry. And what's going on in Sydney? The ANZ "redevelopment' has reportedly blown out to $1.6 billion compared to $650 million for the original stadium! http://www.9news.com.au/national/2017/06/22/18/29/anz-stadium-redevelopment-billion-dollar-project http://www.theaustralian.com.au/sport/nrl/todd-greenberg-reiterates-backing-for-anz-stadium-redevelopment/news-story/3df9aa4bfc6f592b61d75a0f96c1652c Oh and by the way, the 9news story reports the new Parramatta stadium as costing $340 million rather than $300 million as i wrote. So it's even more expensive than I thought.
Jack Russell
Roar Guru
Yeah, why wouldn't the average Australian want to donate their labour for free so their multi millionaire owners can benefit?? I can't see any reason.
marcel
Guest
Nick...unskilled and unlicensed labour forms a very small component of any building site in Australia. Even then..you still have to address the realities of Workcover, Unions, Site inductions, PPE , training and organising of the workers..and the quality of their finished work....I'd expect that in the end youd be lucky if it actually wasnt more expensive.
marcel
Guest
JB...a pitch needs to run in a North/South orientation ....otherwise one of the keepers will be facing into the afternoon Sun .
Waz
Guest
There's a few problems with PP as you'll know jb; the YMCA hold the lease on the site and sub-lease the football facilities to the strikers and then there's the local residents who have been very vocal against redevelopment. But otherwise I agree with you
Nemesis
Guest
Absolutely it's doable. Sweat in exchange for equity in the club. Why wouldn't fans who have the skills want to get involved?
j,binnie
Guest
Waz - As you are aware ,Perry Park was originally to be the home of football in Brisbane but unfortunately, as is usual, money became scarce and the Grandstand that was to be built over the present "clubhouse" was never built,even though the foundations to carry that stand were completed. When Rangers were treated as guests there in the '70's it was felt that it would be nice to have a big crowd so temporary seating was erected on the far side of the present pitch and it was recorded that over 8000 people paid for accomodation. Things at the site have changed somewhat and today it would be feasible to "turn" the pitch around 90 degrees and have seating down both sides with the original stand being built and another stand behind the other goals. With a railway station across the road and the bus journey from the city at almost the same distance as city to Suncorp there would be little change to existing travel arrangements. If these improvements were costed at many millions I'd like to see the costings even at today's prices. Cheers jb.