Wallabies set to free fall in the world rankings

No worries doesn't the fact that the Boks got drawn in the same pool as NZ

Fionn EE added offload game in 2016, and even popping up in the backline in 2017 Won 2 turnovers last week He's not a One trick pony

Bakkies , trust you to spoil my good theories with facts . Ha ha . But I do appreciate it despite .Thanks I did not realise that.

Bakkies , trust you to spoil my good theories with facts . Ha ha . But I do appreciate it despite .Thanks I did not realise that.

I agree with you Fionn. The tight 5 is fine. Although we didn't really challenge the AB line out. And Moore's okay. He's got 120 tests. He's not a shirker. He still throws better than TPN. And our problem at 9, 10, 12 would all be solved with a better 10. Our backrow is just a disaster. With Coleman out, the problems created by our backrow will be even worse. I foresee carnage.

What concerns me is this publicising of team culture, it is almost as if they are making too much of it, trying too hard to emulate the culture of the Lions team. The Lions built their culture over a period of 5 years, there is no way realistically that you emulate a culture like that in a couple of weeks. It in my view spells doom when that bubble bursts. I am all for the team being as positive as possible amidst everything else that is going on (poor coach, poor selections, interference of government etc.) but you can only lie to yourself for so long.

Valid points BB, in my view though there seems to be a certain determination and cohesion in the team. Its not easy to judge based on other teams as each brings a uniue challenge. For what its worth, both the French and Argies appeared OK

FunBus, possibly. Mostert, Etzebeth, PSDT, de Jager vs Launchbury, Itoje, Lawes and Kruis. Mostert and Launchbury are about on par for me, Itoje is playing better than Eben right now I think. Anyway, I'd like to see them go at it if they both had good coaches. They're the two best teams in the world by far when it comes to locking depth though.

Apparently it was the Chiefs.

Actually, Fionn, I reckon England have the best locking depth in the world - but I suppose I would say that. Their 5th choice lock, who is probably just about Charlie Ewels, someone I doubt you've heard of, I think would waltz into the Wallabies team to partner Coleman. Symons, who captained the Blues, I think, and is currently playing for Wasps, would struggle to rate in the top 10 English locks.

Of the players you mention in various posts, Bakkies, none of Morgan, Wood or Wade toured - and anyway these are all 4th or 5th choice in their position. The number bandied around was 30 players unavailable. I haven't counted them, but that sounds about right. There were 6 players who should have been playing in the U-20 RWC, and an 18 year old open side and 18 year old lock made their debut against the first choice Puma pack in Argentina where there's no love for the English. At a push you could say there were 3 or 4 who might start for England in November, but many were 3rd, 4th or even 5th choice in their position.

No, I'm saying the sample size is too small to make claims about who's the better player, especially based on dubious statistics that tend differ from one provider to another.

Agree with all that. I had a pretty good feeling about the Boks after watching the Lions, Stormers ans Sharkies in the Quarters and the finals. Then I saw the team and how they played against Argentina. It was like someone gave them a backpack full of rocks, a number of the selection choices just don't feel right. I would still be browning my shorts if I was wearing a Yellow Jersey, it is going to be hard work, especially with a hostile #SEAOFBLUE/#SEAOFGREEN home crowd here in Perth.

Coleman is out with a shoulder injury.

You are right - where is Mumm???

My Ten cents. Past history between the Boks and Wallabies counts for nothing, in 2017. In the past the Boks have dominated in the forwards and Wallabies have dominated in the backs. This just meant the fleet footed Wallaby backline generally created a win in Australia and on the Highveld, the Boks generally kicked long and deep and let the big pack create the win. But I think we have seen a reversal of both nations form. I think it’s huge myth that the Aussies have a light five. I think there is very little to choose from between the two teams when it comes to the tight five. Marx is better than Moore for sure, but other than that is pretty even. The Wallabies forwards have improved dramatically. This is one area we can credit Cheika for. At the same time, the Boks backline play has improved dramatically. The Bok backline is now filled with Lions players and the Lions are renown for a ball in hand type of game. The Boks no longer play the classic 2009 Boks/Bulls gameplan of “Kick and Chase”. But let’s be brutally honest right now. The Boks and Wallabies are ranked 4th and 5th and they will swop around those positions for a while. Neither team is as good as or as well coached as England and Ireland. I think Joe Schmidt and Eddie Jones are both better coaches than Cheika and Coetzee. So I don’t think the rankings are going to change anytime soon. Although if Cheika persists with the same run at all costs game plan, the Wallabies can drop further. The Wallabies only kicked the ball 7 times in the match against the All Blacks. That is madness against the world best counter attacking team. I think, the real difference between the Boks and the Wallabies right now is the defence coaches. Nathan Grey versus Brendan Venter is non contest. Venter knows his stuff.

As of this week the Boks are ranked higher than the Wallabies.

Timber starting in more test doesn't mean match when there are few options. Look at Al Baxter and Matt Dunning both started in a lot of tests but they were still rubbish. All this so called pre-conceived bias labelling is doing my head in.

Perhaps, but at least you've brought the Champagne up from the cellar... :-)

I didn't realise that starting in more Tests = being a better player. Interesting theory, I guess that means that Simmons is better than Retallick? Completely different context. McMahon had proved nothing beyond potential whereas AAA (and Kepu too from memory) both have better tackling, attacking and scrummaging stats than Oosthuizen. Or are you seriously saying that a player who makes more tackles, has a higher tackle %, better runs AND gives away fewer scrum penalties than his opposite number still isn't as good because he has only been 'a starter in a handful of test matches'? Weird logic.